bascho

Aug 2003??? hasn't Nissan added power since then? I have a feeling you need to read a newer issue.....the 350Z is a faster car in both 0-60 and 1/4mile.

This statement might make sense if I didn't already own an RX8 (2005 Shinka).

I know the dynamic of power-to-weight.......but it's less of an issue with a car that has a decent power-to-weight ratio to begin with.......and some low-end torque. That is my argument.....the Renesis is too little engine for a 3,000lb car (no passengers)....add a few passengers and the problem is exponentially worse.

bascho

You may have a point here. I have never driven a base version.....only my Shinka. I am not saying the car is not fun or not peppy......but it is no where near fast IMO. I don't think the 350Z, G35C, Mustang GT are fast either though. I have driven a 1994 ZR1 (fast), 2005 ZO6 (fast), 2004 Mustang Cobra (fast), 2001 Camaro SS (fast).......2005 RX8 Shinka (not fast).

I have a feeling that the 2004 Mustang GT was still a faster car then the 2004 RX8 and available for $25K with few options.

Wurmfist

Totally agree, they could cancel RX-8 production right now and I would be extremly happy. Rare cars are worth more and seen less on the road, which is exactly what I want. That's one of the reasons why I got this car. I really liked the mustang but I didnt' enjoy seeing them every turn I take.

PhotoMunkey

As the owner of a modified 2003 Mustang GT which I use for drift and track events, I have to day that my 258 rwhp and 290 ft/lbs of torque, delivered through sticky tires is enough to make any 350Z feel like an econobox sedan. I'm not certain what my 0-60 time is but generally-speaking, by the time I hit 80, the rear tires still haven't stopped spinning if I've launched hard! It can carry 4 people, but I don't. Ever. It has been modified to handle corners, and stops courtesy of Brembos but, that said, a stock RX-8 might STILL outrun me around a track. A great deal depends on the driver's skill.

For little more than $25k, the RX-8 has Porsche Boxster-like slinky handling (one of the BEST in the world, folks) and a still-quick 0-60 time under 6 seconds. Want to make your RX-8 faster? Install a set of new Yokohama Advan Neova, Bridgestone RE-01R, or Nitto NT-555R tires THEN drop the hammer at 7500 RPM. If the better rubber doesn't launch that 3000 lb machine to 60 in 5.5 seconds, I'll EAT a tire of your choosing! The Bridgestone RE-040 or Dunlop SP-8000 tires are in the BOTTOM of every performance tire test on the planet, and yet, the car puts up STELLAR handling numbers. Give it some real tires, and some better (hollow) front and rear anti-sway bars to help the chassis remain more level and I just know you'd be looking at .95 of lateral G grip. Possibly more!

The engineers know what the RX-8 can really do. Speedsource is proving that by racing them against those same, more powerful cars mentioned (note that the Speedsource cars are NOT drastically lowered) and is doing well with class wins. This is what the RX-8 is meant to do, and in the $25-30k range, it's the best available RWD car, hands down. An Evo 8 or WRX Sti will still outrun it, but I'd have to live with their butt-ugly, no aero-appendage left unused, 4-door econobox looks on a daily basis? No thanks! If you want a faster coupe in ALL categories, you've got to buy a BMW M3.

PhotoMunkey

"day" = "say" LOL

Raptor2k

edit button ftw

Wurmfist

Nice post PhotoMunkey. YOu hit the head right on the nail.

Alessandro

If I counted right, until last of february 2006, 144961 RX8s born, not too common, not too odd, I doubt that the RX8 will hit 1 million mark though.

PhotoMunkey

I drive, photograph, and write about cars for a living... This means later this year I get to pick what I'll be driving next, and I'm already looking at the RX-8 really hard... If I get the dealer to toss in the Mazdaspeed front bumper and side skirts on a deal on a base 6MT, I'll have the makings of a great street/track/drift machine. Now all I'll have to do is make a tow-behind trailer to carry the tires and tools! Greasy crap ain't a-going in my car!
All be silent! The Munkey has spoken!

btw-the edit button looks pretty cool... perhaps I should have noticed it sooner? LOL

Wurmfist

That or you could get a big truck with a big trailer and tow the car and your supplies all on the same trailer.

rotary crazy

148,317 rx-8"s made, just throwing that in.

time4akshun

Ditto!!!!!!!!

Ike

Because some of us would like to see a higher HP version or maybe an RX-7, if sales are poor this may be it for the Rotary.

rx7 rage

http://media.ford.com/mazda/article_...ticle_id=23344

jeez, april sales hit an all time low with 584 sold!

Ike

Wow, and that's with '06s on the lots. I thought April sales would be good and then they would tail off...

Renesis_8

The MX-5 is doing very very well, this could be the problem.... They are both sports cars! no doubt the new NC is stealing 8's sales
________
Wellbutrin Side Effect

presequel

so about 1000 less than last month.

crazy stuff.

Icemark

Oh, this thread is so full of misconceptions.

#1 It is very normal for a car to loose about 30 to 40% sales volumn from the initial offering for each year.

Based on that the RX-8 is right on target. There should be at least 30% fewer sales each year of production until the car gets revised. It is very very unusual for a car to have simular or increased sales multiple years of the same body style. Based on the fact that the RX-8 is 4 years old (I know, I know 3 model years old) but 4 production years old, sales should be off.

for example, if you sold say, 60,000 the first year, you should expect to sell 39,000 the next year, and 25,350 the following year, and 16,477 the following year for a normal 4 year production cycle, then with a minor re-design expect about 50% sales of the first production year of the redesign. So 5 year (minor re-design) there should be around 30,000 units sold, followed by 19,500 for the 2nd year after the minor redesign, followed by 12675 the third year after the minor re-design.Etc

This is what most manufactures plan models and budget on.

#2 And the reason april this years sales were so low, was because there were no cars. Dealers can't sell what they don't have. The 06 models were very rare in my area in early april (traditionally a poor time to sell any large purchase items in the USA due to taxes).

#3 The one and only reason that the FD (third Gen RX-7) was cancelled in America was poor sales due to price. The re-design for emissions (OBDII) and door frames would have been very minor to make the car meet 96&97 standards (a new ECU and door beams) are pretty minor. The biggest problem with the FD was poor sales related to price. And what was the biggest thing that added to that price??? The engine.

There was no other reason what so ever that the FD failed in America than that. The car was $15000 too expensive ($42,000 for some models). This is from the engineer that was responsible for the front end and packaging on the FD (who by the way was one of the project leaders for the FE/SE3P).

So those members that keep clamoring for a Turbo or supercharged engine, better understand that. A production Turbo or Supercharged engine is the last thing Mazda needs for sales on the FE.

#4 if Rotary Crazy's numbers of 148,317 FE sales are correct, then Mazda is selling at way above the minium 20000 units average per year of the production run needed to justify production of a med volumn car. Medium production run cars should expect a average of 20,000 units a year over a models entire production run to justify tooling and build costs. So 80,000 units in sales over 4 years would be the minimum. I would bet the FE does double that by the end of this year- the 4th year of the production run (they would just have to sell 974 cars a month ( this year) to do that).

rotary crazy

^^^very well said^^^^

bascho

Are you on Mazda's board of directors? Are you the program manager for the RX8? How could YOU possibly know what the break-even sales point is for the RX8? Every vehicle is different and each program has different development costs. There is no rule about medium production cars needing 20,000 units per year of sales to break even. Your post seemed half-way intelligent until this #4 statement you made. I agree that 147,317 units sold in 3 years is a great improvement from the last gen FD.....but that does not make the RX8 a success or profitable.

Smileynh

I bought mine in February and ... There were about 10 on the lot. The other dealer near me also sells BMW's and doesn't even carry the 8. I went into the dealer for service this month(my sun visor broke?!) and all 10 8's were gone. My sales guy sold 6 of them in March. Mazda offered the sales reps double incentives to move them off the lots. That's why sales were up. Pay the sales people to get rid of them and they will

As for the 2006's that's bad news where I live. The dealer has 1 Shinka. There seems to be a problem with distribution or production. They'll be waiting for the 2007's in NH

--

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Well you're not Mazda's board of directors nor proram manager either Bascho. how do you know they're not making any profit out of the 8 ?

RX8 is already a big success when you compare it to the FD (North America Market only)

bascho

I know I'm not....that is why I am not speculating that the RX8 is either a success or a failure. I am merely arguing the no one on this forum has the inside information to make success/failure statements.


I already stated that the RX8 sales have been a big improvement over the FD. If Mazda measures success of the RX8 as merely outselling the FD.....then fine, you can say it's a success. If Mazda bases success on covering development costs and exceeding forecasted sales.......then only Mazda insiders will know.

saturn

There is no way this is true. The 350Z has lost 10-20% sales each year (in North America at least). The RX-8 has been losing OVER 40% every year. I bet if I looked up numbers for the S2000, Evo, STi, etc I wouldn't see annual 30-40% sales dips as you claim.

QBallz

You have to remember that the 2006 model didn't really hit until Mid-Late April. So I'm guessing that the 2005 models started to run thin, and how many people really want to buy a car in a color they don't like or a accessory package that doesn't fit.

Also add the fact that they changed the engine tranny of the automatic, and the fact that used RX8's are a steal at ~20k for a loaded 2004 and I imagine that this all will lead to lower than average sales numbers.