Mazda Racing Credibility
01-29-2007, 05:45 PM
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Mazda Racing Credibility
I just watched The Speed Report (from the Speed Channel). The subject came up of Champ Car losing Ford as its engine supplier / major sponsor. The hostess - who has a history of being negative toward anything non-NASCAR - said something along the following, "Hyundai, Mazda, and Cadillac are in talks to possibly sponsor / supply engines for Champ Car. But let's face it. All three of them combined don't have the racing credibility of Ford".
My jaw dropped.
Yes, Ford has probably spent more money and time on racing than Mazda, but the gap isn't that big. And, overall I just think Mazda spends money on more interesting series than does Ford.
Oh, and no, they'll never run rotaries in Champ Car, so don't even bring it up.
My jaw dropped.
Yes, Ford has probably spent more money and time on racing than Mazda, but the gap isn't that big. And, overall I just think Mazda spends money on more interesting series than does Ford.
Oh, and no, they'll never run rotaries in Champ Car, so don't even bring it up.
01-29-2007, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by nycgps
Mazda aint good either, but hey, they won Le Mans once ... only once ....
01-29-2007, 09:38 PM
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Bag on Ford all you like, bug their racing history is richer than Mazda's will ever be. I also don't know why someone would say Ford doesn't participate in "interesting series". WRC, JWRC, Forumla Ford, NHRA drag racing, Indy, NASCAR, Sprint Car, SCCA, GT racing around the globe, Can-AM, Le Mans, etc., etc.
01-29-2007, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Ike
Bag on Ford all you like, bug their racing history is richer than Mazda's will ever be. I also don't know why someone would say Ford doesn't participate in "interesting series". WRC, JWRC, Forumla Ford, NHRA drag racing, Indy, NASCAR, Sprint Car, SCCA, GT racing around the globe, Can-AM, Le Mans, etc., etc.
is everyone else smoking crack? Ford tried to buy FERRARI for petes sake!
01-29-2007, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueRenesis82
all true!
is everyone else smoking crack? Ford tried to buy FERRARI for petes sake!
is everyone else smoking crack? Ford tried to buy FERRARI for petes sake!
And after ferrari refused.. ford assraped them with the gt40...
Most of fords production lineup is not as well suited to the track as mazdas lineup.. thats probably why you're confused.
01-29-2007, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Xantium
And after ferrari refused.. ford assraped them with the gt40...
Most of fords production lineup is not as well suited to the track as mazdas lineup.. thats probably why you're confused.
Most of fords production lineup is not as well suited to the track as mazdas lineup.. thats probably why you're confused.
oh wait, Ford has one of those.
And what track are you referring to? Most of both manufacturer's lineups are FWD, so I miss where you are smarter than me again.
01-30-2007, 07:17 AM
#11
Both Ford and Mazda have extremely rich racing history. Ford's extends over many more years. Mazda's is one of the most interesting in a real David and Goliath kind of way. Their accomplishments for their size and expenditure is probably un-paralleled. Mazda's dominance of IMSA GTU is legendary. I think it was 8 championships in a row and 10 years of Daytona 24hr wins in that same class even when the horsepower and torque equation was tipped far against them due to displacement adjustments to the class.
A lot of people don't know that in the same year that they won the Le Mans they also won the GTO championship with their 4 rotor powered RX7s and the driver's championship. This was against much bigger competitors including Ford, Nissan and Ferrari just to name a few.
A lot of people are ignorant of the main reason for Mazda's Rotary success which is reliability. I remember reading an article about LeMans where the writer commented that the screaming Mazdas were destined to be there at the end of the race. That's quite a testament to their durability.
Paul.
A lot of people don't know that in the same year that they won the Le Mans they also won the GTO championship with their 4 rotor powered RX7s and the driver's championship. This was against much bigger competitors including Ford, Nissan and Ferrari just to name a few.
A lot of people are ignorant of the main reason for Mazda's Rotary success which is reliability. I remember reading an article about LeMans where the writer commented that the screaming Mazdas were destined to be there at the end of the race. That's quite a testament to their durability.
Paul.
01-30-2007, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Xantium
And after ferrari refused.. ford assraped them with the gt40...
Most of fords production lineup is not as well suited to the track as mazdas lineup.. thats probably why you're confused.
Most of fords production lineup is not as well suited to the track as mazdas lineup.. thats probably why you're confused.
You got that right! The GT40 OWNED Ferrari for those few years. Bad, bad, bad kill by Ford. I have love for both Ford and Mazda's racing history. Hate Chevy...
01-30-2007, 09:38 AM
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I might be missing something, but isn't there a pretty close relationship between Mazda/Ford??
Also, doesn't Mazda supply the formula atlantic engines? I know it is a feeder series, but that's gotta be worth something, right?
Also, doesn't Mazda supply the formula atlantic engines? I know it is a feeder series, but that's gotta be worth something, right?
01-30-2007, 09:49 AM
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Just barely related to this thread, but it was VERY encouraging to see how well those Speedsource RX8s did in the Daytona 24. I bet with a couple more years in development they could win their class.
Anyway, Ford's had their fingers in racing for a long time, even if they don't make a big stink about it. In fact, their Mustang GT (class) cars are proving to be some damn fine race cars.
Anyway, Ford's had their fingers in racing for a long time, even if they don't make a big stink about it. In fact, their Mustang GT (class) cars are proving to be some damn fine race cars.
01-30-2007, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Silverarrow
I might be missing something, but isn't there a pretty close relationship between Mazda/Ford??
Also, doesn't Mazda supply the formula atlantic engines? I know it is a feeder series, but that's gotta be worth something, right?
Also, doesn't Mazda supply the formula atlantic engines? I know it is a feeder series, but that's gotta be worth something, right?
yes mazda does supply formula atlantic, as well as star mazda.
01-30-2007, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ike
Bag on Ford all you like, bug their racing history is richer than Mazda's will ever be. I also don't know why someone would say Ford doesn't participate in "interesting series". WRC, JWRC, Forumla Ford, NHRA drag racing, Indy, NASCAR, Sprint Car, SCCA, GT racing around the globe, Can-AM, Le Mans, etc., etc.
I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't ripping on Ford, but on the quickly dismissed racing credibility of Mazda. Yes, they both have a rich racing history. No doubt about it. My point is directed at the answer to this question... Does Ford have racing credibility? Yes. Does Mazda have racing credibility? Yes.
"interesting series" is subjective, and I mean series that exist today, and how they exist today. Racing heritage is important especially when it comes to credibility, but let's face it. We live in a "what have you done for me lately?" kind of world.
I think ovals and drag racing are gay. However, there are no Fords in Indycar, and haven't been any in some years. They're Hondas. And the aforementioned ovals suck IMO. I admit I mostly root for Ford in WRC. In SCCA you can find all makes, so it's a bit of a wash. "GT racing" is too generalized for comment. The only series you mention specifically that I care about as a racing fan today are WRC and ALMS. And to my knowledge Ford doesn't have any teams in ALMS.
See this URL for more about the series they sponsor. You'd be as surprised as I am about the few series they support as a factory, currently.
http://www.fordracing.com/series/
Champ Car is nixed, so that leaves World Rally as the only series of interest to me.
Here is a good link for Mazda racing series.
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...azdaRaceSeries
I'm a casual fan of Star Mazda and Champ Car Atlantic, but don't have any interest in Mazda MX-5 Cup.
Both manufacturers are represented in Speed World Challenge and Grand Am, but they must not be full-fledged factory efforts (if their web sites are accurate). I think both are well represented by these series.
Note: I'm aware that Ford has a stake in Mazda. I'm just not sure how it is that Ford can't afford to sponsor Champ Car, but Mazda can. It must be the truckload of money they spend on NASCAR. As much as I hate it, that's where the smart money goes in North America.
01-30-2007, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Rosko350z
Sorry for the novel.
I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't ripping on Ford, but on the quickly dismissed racing credibility of Mazda. Yes, they both have a rich racing history. No doubt about it. My point is directed at the answer to this question... Does Ford have racing credibility? Yes. Does Mazda have racing credibility? Yes.
"interesting series" is subjective, and I mean series that exist today, and how they exist today. Racing heritage is important especially when it comes to credibility, but let's face it. We live in a "what have you done for me lately?" kind of world.
I think ovals and drag racing are gay. However, there are no Fords in Indycar, and haven't been any in some years. They're Hondas. And the aforementioned ovals suck IMO. I admit I mostly root for Ford in WRC. In SCCA you can find all makes, so it's a bit of a wash. "GT racing" is too generalized for comment. The only series you mention specifically that I care about as a racing fan today are WRC and ALMS. And to my knowledge Ford doesn't have any teams in ALMS.
See this URL for more about the series they sponsor. You'd be as surprised as I am about the few series they support as a factory, currently.
http://www.fordracing.com/series/
Champ Car is nixed, so that leaves World Rally as the only series of interest to me.
Here is a good link for Mazda racing series.
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...azdaRaceSeries
I'm a casual fan of Star Mazda and Champ Car Atlantic, but don't have any interest in Mazda MX-5 Cup.
Both manufacturers are represented in Speed World Challenge and Grand Am, but they must not be full-fledged factory efforts (if their web sites are accurate). I think both are well represented by these series.
Note: I'm aware that Ford has a stake in Mazda. I'm just not sure how it is that Ford can't afford to sponsor Champ Car, but Mazda can. It must be the truckload of money they spend on NASCAR. As much as I hate it, that's where the smart money goes in North America.
I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't ripping on Ford, but on the quickly dismissed racing credibility of Mazda. Yes, they both have a rich racing history. No doubt about it. My point is directed at the answer to this question... Does Ford have racing credibility? Yes. Does Mazda have racing credibility? Yes.
"interesting series" is subjective, and I mean series that exist today, and how they exist today. Racing heritage is important especially when it comes to credibility, but let's face it. We live in a "what have you done for me lately?" kind of world.
I think ovals and drag racing are gay. However, there are no Fords in Indycar, and haven't been any in some years. They're Hondas. And the aforementioned ovals suck IMO. I admit I mostly root for Ford in WRC. In SCCA you can find all makes, so it's a bit of a wash. "GT racing" is too generalized for comment. The only series you mention specifically that I care about as a racing fan today are WRC and ALMS. And to my knowledge Ford doesn't have any teams in ALMS.
See this URL for more about the series they sponsor. You'd be as surprised as I am about the few series they support as a factory, currently.
http://www.fordracing.com/series/
Champ Car is nixed, so that leaves World Rally as the only series of interest to me.
Here is a good link for Mazda racing series.
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...azdaRaceSeries
I'm a casual fan of Star Mazda and Champ Car Atlantic, but don't have any interest in Mazda MX-5 Cup.
Both manufacturers are represented in Speed World Challenge and Grand Am, but they must not be full-fledged factory efforts (if their web sites are accurate). I think both are well represented by these series.
Note: I'm aware that Ford has a stake in Mazda. I'm just not sure how it is that Ford can't afford to sponsor Champ Car, but Mazda can. It must be the truckload of money they spend on NASCAR. As much as I hate it, that's where the smart money goes in North America.
The point is, Ford has had their hand in just about every form of racing throughout the years. They can't sustain being in every single form all the time... When I said SCCA earlier I'm not talking about some guys cruising around their local parking lot. I'm talking about serious factory backed race cars. GT racing might be too generalized to you, but it's that generalized because ford has had a hand in many series throughout the world.
Just take a look at former drivers in Forumla Ford, Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, Emerson Fittipaldi, James Hunt, Jody Scheckter, Michael Schumacher, Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve, Mikka Hakkinen, etc. etc. Champ, Star Mazda, and whatever other form of open wheel racing you can come up with aren't much a feeder series for the big leagues.
01-30-2007, 10:44 PM
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Ford can lose more money then Mazda can make and still pay their execs bonuses 
Mazda has great motors in their cars that find their way to the track. Then again Ford Zetec is in the SCCA Spec Racer. Formula Ford, hmm, wonder what motor they use? Sports 2000? If you've ever driven some of the old German Fords like the Capri or XR4Ti you might be surprised it was a ford product. Ford of Europe anyway.
We tend to know Ford for the small block part of the world, and in that world Chevy is boss.
Don't discount Ford just because the US stuff is junk. Ford's been around racing and has done a thing or two. Just don't expect a Ford motor built in the US to be fast in anything that makes right turns.
Mazda, well what do you expect from a company with a motto of "zoom-zoom"?
Mazda has great motors in their cars that find their way to the track. Then again Ford Zetec is in the SCCA Spec Racer. Formula Ford, hmm, wonder what motor they use? Sports 2000? If you've ever driven some of the old German Fords like the Capri or XR4Ti you might be surprised it was a ford product. Ford of Europe anyway.
We tend to know Ford for the small block part of the world, and in that world Chevy is boss.
Don't discount Ford just because the US stuff is junk. Ford's been around racing and has done a thing or two. Just don't expect a Ford motor built in the US to be fast in anything that makes right turns.
Mazda, well what do you expect from a company with a motto of "zoom-zoom"?
01-30-2007, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mazmart
Both Ford and Mazda have extremely rich racing history. Ford's extends over many more years. Mazda's is one of the most interesting in a real David and Goliath kind of way. Their accomplishments for their size and expenditure is probably un-paralleled. Mazda's dominance of IMSA GTU is legendary. I think it was 8 championships in a row and 10 years of Daytona 24hr wins in that same class even when the horsepower and torque equation was tipped far against them due to displacement adjustments to the class.
A lot of people don't know that in the same year that they won the Le Mans they also won the GTO championship with their 4 rotor powered RX7s and the driver's championship. This was against much bigger competitors including Ford, Nissan and Ferrari just to name a few.
A lot of people are ignorant of the main reason for Mazda's Rotary success which is reliability. I remember reading an article about LeMans where the writer commented that the screaming Mazdas were destined to be there at the end of the race. That's quite a testament to their durability.
Paul.
A lot of people don't know that in the same year that they won the Le Mans they also won the GTO championship with their 4 rotor powered RX7s and the driver's championship. This was against much bigger competitors including Ford, Nissan and Ferrari just to name a few.
A lot of people are ignorant of the main reason for Mazda's Rotary success which is reliability. I remember reading an article about LeMans where the writer commented that the screaming Mazdas were destined to be there at the end of the race. That's quite a testament to their durability.
Paul.
Thanks for adding some knowledge to this thread. At any rate the comment by the SpeedTv announcer doesn't even warrant a second thought let alone a thread in our club page. Just another talking head...
01-31-2007, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Ike
Just take a look at former drivers in Forumla Ford, Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, Emerson Fittipaldi, James Hunt, Jody Scheckter, Michael Schumacher, Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve, Mikka Hakkinen, etc. etc. Champ, Star Mazda, and whatever other form of open wheel racing you can come up with aren't much a feeder series for the big leagues.
I think you and Nelson Piquet Junior would get along like to peas in a pod with respect to your opinion about North American open wheel racing.
I also think you and Piquet have that right, so I'll leave it at that.
01-31-2007, 09:28 AM
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hate to be the bubble burster here, but while Mazda has good sucess in road racing in the last 20 years - Fords racing history dates back 100 years and they have won championships in pretty much everything possible... Nascar, Indy CArs, F1, LeMans, Daytona, WRC, Touring Cars, Drifting, Sprint Cars, Midgets, Off Road racing, Endurance racing, Drag Racing... -insert any other type of racing you can think of-
Hell, Henry Ford started the company by racing...
Hell, Henry Ford started the company by racing...
Last edited by r0tor; 01-31-2007 at 09:30 AM.
01-31-2007, 10:48 AM
#24
Originally Posted by r0tor
hate to be the bubble burster here, but while Mazda has good sucess in road racing in the last 20 years - Fords racing history dates back 100 years and they have won championships in pretty much everything possible... Nascar, Indy CArs, F1, LeMans, Daytona, WRC, Touring Cars, Drifting, Sprint Cars, Midgets, Off Road racing, Endurance racing, Drag Racing... -insert any other type of racing you can think of-
Hell, Henry Ford started the company by racing...
Hell, Henry Ford started the company by racing...
That takes nothing away from Ford and nobody's bubble has to be bursted.
Paul.
01-31-2007, 04:49 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by Ike
Bag on Ford all you like, bug their racing history is richer than Mazda's will ever be. I also don't know why someone would say Ford doesn't participate in "interesting series". WRC, JWRC, Forumla Ford, NHRA drag racing, Indy, NASCAR, Sprint Car, SCCA, GT racing around the globe, Can-AM, Le Mans, etc., etc.