saturn

That same logic can be used against any car in the industry. No one researches -- everyone complains. It wouldn't be an isolated phenomenon to Mazda alone.

Mazda is a Japanese car company. I would buy from any Japanese car company before I'd buy from any other country. This is because they have a much better reputation that has been built up over time. However, I would be very worried about getting an RX-8 in particular because of the bad dealership support history I've read about here and several other places. Though, much like Viking if I wanted the car bad enough I'd probably buy it and hope to get lucky (with the dealer and reliability). I personally think this whole paragraph is a philosophy many people share. This survey doesn't really sway me one way or the other.

Icemark

Yep, that is the key. JD power's surveys are of the customer, asking if they have had problems, or like the car.

If you had a rattle from a pen in the glove box, but you thought that it was just the glove box rattling, that would mark down the JD power score. Same thing if you hit a curb and had a tire get a buldge. That would count against a postive JD power score.

Yet this Top Gear one, is based on service calls. So if you took your car in for an oil leak, or a busted shock, that would count against the score.

JD power scores are as one sided as a washington lobbist.

saturn

The logic in this thread is astounding.

It's all relative. If JDP scores one manufacturer low because lots of people complain about stupid stuff then the same would be true for all manufacturers. No company is immune from stupid people complaining about stupid things.

Also, we're talking about degree here. Who cares if you only ever have one problem during the entire time you own your car if that one problem is a blown engine that won't be covered under warranty.

I understand that reliability and satisfaction don't always go hand in hand. Saturn (the car company, not me) had very high satisfaction scores, but their cars were pieces of crap. When I owned one I was totally satisfied with the dealer -- I learned to hate the car though.

All that being said the thing that pisses me off is that so many people wait to hear some good piece of news about Mazda and/or the RX-8 and then completely dismiss all logic and reason just so they can feel good about themselves and their purchase. Then you wonder why people buy RX-8's with misinformation when you're busy walking down the street singing the praises of the all-mighty, incomprehensibly reliable car that is the RX-8.

Whatever. I give up. Teh RX-8 is teh fastar in tha twi$ties and nevar bre@ks d0wn!111!!!!!!!

dynamho

The bottom line is:
Learn how each study (survey) was conducted. Every survey has gaps and should be interpretted accordingly. There is no such thing as a "golden ruler" except your interpretation of it. <-- I wonder if that makes sense.

map

The difference is, when you sit in a VW or BMW, it at least gives the appearance that it is finely crafted of quality materials (even if it isn't). Most Fords have no such allusions (even if underneath the cheap plastics and panel gaps it is quite dependable). I think Ford is improving, I'm not trying to bash them. German cars just feel so solid it lends a sense of security.

ASH8

I don't know where you see Mazda "fluctuates" in surveys, for more years than I care to remember they have been in the top 5, and in the last 10 years top 2..
I am talking ...Australia,NewZealand,Germany,England,Netherland s,Japan, but the USA have different Mazda's, or those surveyed by J.D Power..

Another reason why Mazda are now more consistent.. almost 96% of their product comes out of Japan. Honda and Toyota have many plants on other continents.

ASH8

Come on Saturn....
While I will agree with your thoughts here, the last two paragraphs I wont.
Yes there have been some issues of engine failure, and a few recalls, but NO more than any other brand.
Toyota's 3.5 million sludge engines.
Nissan Z owners with high oil use/short motor replacements, trannies.

The overwhelmingly majority of Mazda's and RX-8 owners love their cars.

Icemark

And what amazes me is the number of members here that just bash because they don't agree with something some else says.

my post had nothing to do with logic, but instead pointed out that while JD Power rates based off of consumer responses while the Top gear report is based off of actual repairs.

And as far as bashing the 8 and calling it unreliable, lets face it. The population of this board is hardly indicative of the real world owners. Even if 60% (a rather generous number I would expect) of the 31,775 members here actually owned a RX-8 (probably under 15-20,000 actual owners not including the number of members driven away because of flaming, bashing and not wanting to deal with the few outspoken idiots on this board) Anyway, of those left and actually owning cars; how many have posted problems???20%? 10% 5%??? and what percentage would that be when comparied to actual cars sold?

Pretty ******* minimal.

saturn

You're saying you don't agree with my statement that "teh RX-8 is teh fastar in tha twi$ties"? I'm pretty sure that's true.

If nothing else this survey is interesting in how much in conflicts with other rating systems. I personally do not agree with the assessment that the JDP numbers are skewed by random people complaining about irrelevant issues. I'll file it under "things to think about" and leave it at that.

otherside

Hey Saturn, how do you feel about your RX8?

ASH8

What other rating system(s) does it conflict with Saturn..apart from JDP

Icemark

Yeah, then why did the BMW 540I get hit so bad in JD Power initial owner ratings???

Go look it up. JD powers posted it on their website a few years back.

BMW got hit with a huge number of un-satisfied owners because of the Idrive system that controls the radio, that many americans found confusing to use.

Not because the system was defective, but because american owners didn't like using a Joy stick to control radio functions. They wanted a **** instead.

The owners bought the car, presumably used the radio on the test drive, then complained about the electrical, and then when they actually distilled down the problem it was user error because they didn't like not having a bunch of *****.

But that counted against the car in JD Powers Initial owners ratings of the car.

ASH8

^^^
Icemark...I would say about 8%....

saturn

I was referring specifically to the last year's Consumer Reports report that placed Mazda 9th. Not nearly as bad as JDP, but not quite #1.

saturn

I feel like it let's me pwn n00bs in the twisties. I unfortunately live in an area devoid of twisties.

9291150

...and you live in a world devoid of a RX8.

saturn

Thanks a lot. That was a secret.

If you guys want to believe that Mazda is the most reliable car manufacturer around, awesome. I don't make any money either way. I believe I've given plenty of food for thought on the subject for any new person searching for "mazda reliability". If the rest of you want to think that because I don't own an 8 I have nothing to contribute or that I'm just bashing a car for fun then so be it.

9291150

You actually contribute much. Just don't be surprised when some object to what really is an overly negative RX8 enthusiast site.

As a strategist/researcher by trade, I say that JDP results are BS. As for Mazda, I think all true Japanese manufacturers still make the most reliable products, often a product of more conservative engineering principles. That said, my old Miata was the most reliable I ever had, while my 8 is among my least reliable, though still entirely tolerable in that category. Few cars exist today that would lead me to suggest to someone not to buy it because it's "not reliable." At most, I'd apply "unproven" to some makes.

MazdaMonkey

Saturn,
Your birthday is one day before mine. Therefore, you are older and wiser (assuming you were born in 1984 and before)

Sephiroth

I agree 100%. Well said.

otherside

Psssssst! It isn't a secret, thus the reason for my question. But you can hang around all you want

VikingDJ

Well said. The fact is that the car has to be 4+ years old to really have a proven reliability record. We just don't know, because every reliability survey is basically referring to the past. In a used car market, you have more proven validated info. Right now it's a lot of faith and speculation, because the jury is still out on many of the new cars out today.

corvus13

iTrader: (2)

I've owned several Mazdas, incluing two first gen 7's, an MX-3, a Protege and an RX-8. I've also owned a Dodge Dakota, a Subaru Outback, a Civic and now a Honda Element as well. My family has also owned many Mazdas (including several of the early RX's) and I can honestly say that Mazda's customer service and overall quality are the best out of all of them. The problem here as I see it is the attitude that some people go to the dealer with (notice I said SOME not ALL). Whatever happened to the art of conversation when it comes to dealing with the dealer? And also it seems that some do not know how to properly take care of a rotary yet. I've rebuilt at least two 12A engines that I can tell you were killed by the owners driving them like piston engines (ie no redlining and oil...you mean I have to add oil!) I'm not saying that there aren't a few bad Mazdas or dealers out there, but come on people. I come to this board to learn more about the car and pick up new ideas, not to hear the latest from those that don't even OWN THE CAR! Not saying you can't have your opinions, but until you LIVE with the car (I've owned for about six months and still find something new out about the car when I drive.) it's hard to form a good opinion of it. After all if it were just about the numbers, we would all own big V8's or WRX's.

Later
Corvus13

ASH8

Well said corvus13,

How is it that Mazda can rate No.1 in JDP Survey for Germany, over "quality" brands like
BMW, AUDI, Mercedes-Benz.

But, in the JDP USA it rates close to last.???

Again Mazda No. 1-2 in UK, Australia,New Zealand,Netherlands,Japan..etc

IMO its not so much the Brand, but the fact there is SO MUCH Rework at "some" Mazda Dealers in the US...that is the issue for MNAO., also Dealer Principals or Departmental Managers who employ staff with poor technical skills, particularly how to talk to customers and mediate any conflicts.

Nick Alvarado

Do not forget that Mazda has stopped including RX-8 in their customer satifaction reports...Problems I've had quite a few...but I still love her....