PTP turbo'd RX-8 in Car and Driver- july 06 issue
06-05-2006, 07:25 PM
#126
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Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
Jon....what do you think about what Scott did with his upgraded Greedy kit?
Also, did you ever think about using Scott's Inter-X?
Just some thoughts...
Also, did you ever think about using Scott's Inter-X?
Just some thoughts...
06-05-2006, 07:29 PM
#127
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Originally Posted by Red Devil
For some reason, my computer won't pull up the article in a size that I can read. What was the trap speed in the 1/4 mile?
So, if they can get a good launch and some traction, they'll easily be in the 12's.
06-05-2006, 08:38 PM
#128
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Jon, question for you on the acceleration times.
In the article it states the 50-70 MPH accel. time was 6.3 seconds. Was this is 6th gear?
If so, thats very impressive (the GT500 Mustang has a 8.8 sec. as per the article in C & D).
In the article it states the 50-70 MPH accel. time was 6.3 seconds. Was this is 6th gear?
If so, thats very impressive (the GT500 Mustang has a 8.8 sec. as per the article in C & D).
06-05-2006, 10:38 PM
#129
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Originally Posted by Jon
carbon
we never said that the greddy kit was not a good option, and we didn't say that the emanage doesn't work. we actually waited almost 3 months for greddy to try and get us the dongles and the plug and play harness to use on our car 1.5yrs ago. but for the money you cannot compete with the greddy kit.
however as far as power potential goes, the greddy cannot compete
we never said that the greddy kit was not a good option, and we didn't say that the emanage doesn't work. we actually waited almost 3 months for greddy to try and get us the dongles and the plug and play harness to use on our car 1.5yrs ago. but for the money you cannot compete with the greddy kit.
however as far as power potential goes, the greddy cannot compete
I would also disagree with the power statement. 320 rwhp is possible with the emanage (this likely the absolute limit with fuel upgrades only because timing control is not possible). Seems to me that this was about what the PTP kit was putting down.
I am not suggesting that the emanage is better; it is not. But to say half the power for half the price is a blatant mis-statment. Maybe 0.85 the power for 0.35 the price. I think I might have invested $2.5k in my turbo and upgrades PLUS I am actually on the road with it. Now I have $4.5k in my pocket to play with. And I did.
06-05-2006, 10:45 PM
#130
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The Greddy kit in it's stock unmodified form is not a kit that I would put on a car I cared about. You need to do the emanage wiring change that MM came up with and change the oil return location. Then it becomes a viable option. Fortunately these aren't hard to do.
The turbo is the limit in power for the Greddy kit, not the tuning. Good tuning will take you to the turbo's limits. It might, if you are lucky, are at sea level, and have a really cold day, with a perfectly tuned ecu, on high octane gas hit 320 rwhp. That last few is hard to get. 300 rwhp is possible.
There are a host of other things that happen inside an engine which you push a small turbo to it's limits that no one thinks about but I'm not going to get into all of that.
The turbo is the limit in power for the Greddy kit, not the tuning. Good tuning will take you to the turbo's limits. It might, if you are lucky, are at sea level, and have a really cold day, with a perfectly tuned ecu, on high octane gas hit 320 rwhp. That last few is hard to get. 300 rwhp is possible.
There are a host of other things that happen inside an engine which you push a small turbo to it's limits that no one thinks about but I'm not going to get into all of that.
06-05-2006, 10:58 PM
#131
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
The Greddy kit in it's stock unmodified form is not a kit that I would put on a car I cared about. You need to do the emanage wiring change that MM came up with and change the oil return location. Then it becomes a viable option. Fortunately these aren't hard to do.
The turbo is the limit in power for the Greddy kit, not the tuning. Good tuning will take you to the turbo's limits. It might, if you are lucky, are at sea level, and have a really cold day, with a perfectly tuned ecu, on high octane gas hit 320 rwhp. That last few is hard to get. 300 rwhp is possible.
There are a host of other things that happen inside an engine which you push a small turbo to it's limits that no one thinks about but I'm not going to get into all of that.
The turbo is the limit in power for the Greddy kit, not the tuning. Good tuning will take you to the turbo's limits. It might, if you are lucky, are at sea level, and have a really cold day, with a perfectly tuned ecu, on high octane gas hit 320 rwhp. That last few is hard to get. 300 rwhp is possible.
There are a host of other things that happen inside an engine which you push a small turbo to it's limits that no one thinks about but I'm not going to get into all of that.
Also, why does every one think the turbo is small??? This turbo is likely to flow enough to power WAAY more than 320 hp. Right now it is NOT the turbo that is the limit of power. It is the fuel first then timing. How is that NOT tuning??? The emanage is never going to get around the ability to alter timing.
06-06-2006, 12:43 AM
#132
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The rotary uses air differently than a piston engine does. That turbo can not do that much power on a rotary. A piston engine is different. A rotary makes about 8 hp per pound of air used. A piston engine makes about 10 hp per pound of air used. The turbo is small. It is absolutely the limit. No one will ever make more power on a rotary with one. Period.
06-06-2006, 12:54 AM
#133
Originally Posted by carbonRX8
To say half the power for half the price is a blatant mis-statment. Maybe 0.85 the power for 0.35 the price. I think I might have invested $2.5k in my turbo and upgrades PLUS I am actually on the road with it. Now I have $4.5k in my pocket to play with. And I did.
06-06-2006, 06:22 AM
#134
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
The rotary uses air differently than a piston engine does. That turbo can not do that much power on a rotary. A piston engine is different. A rotary makes about 8 hp per pound of air used. A piston engine makes about 10 hp per pound of air used. The turbo is small. It is absolutely the limit. No one will ever make more power on a rotary with one. Period.
Originally Posted by canaryrx8
it's a blatant mis-statement because I was KIDDING, it was a JOKE. lighten up Francis, if you're truly happy with your setup there's no reason to defend it.
I am not defending my set-up, as I agree it has it's limitations. The kit as shipped is pretty crappy. I am trying to dispell, or at least counter, myths that seem to be floating around. You're not making it easy.
06-06-2006, 08:06 AM
#135
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Cam
yes the 30-50 and 50-70 tests are done in the highest gear possible, which on the 8 is 6th gear.
Carbon
I understand your point, and no we had nothing to do with writing the article..... in fact we were not allowed to even see the article or know anything about what he was going to write until it was released. I saw it first when it was posted up on this forum.
But you must understand that from car & drivers point of view, they wanted a bolt on kit that would produce that horsepower number. the greddy kit can be modified and could probably make close to that power output but it would be at its limits. our kit is not designed to compete with greddy's kit, we built ours for those ppl who wanted to push the limits of the renesis motor. who knows how much power a renesis can handle.... only time will tell
rotarygod
the rotary does require a much larger turbo to make the same power as a piston engine. I just thought i would offer an example from our dyno to assist with your statement.
gt35r on an rx7 can produce around 450-480rwhp
gt35r on a 4 cylinder 1.8 integra can produce around 570-630whp
i cannot find my rx7 dyno graph but i have the dyno's for the integra and as soon as I find the other graph for the rx7 i'll try to post them up.
hope that helps
jon
yes the 30-50 and 50-70 tests are done in the highest gear possible, which on the 8 is 6th gear.
Carbon
I understand your point, and no we had nothing to do with writing the article..... in fact we were not allowed to even see the article or know anything about what he was going to write until it was released. I saw it first when it was posted up on this forum.
But you must understand that from car & drivers point of view, they wanted a bolt on kit that would produce that horsepower number. the greddy kit can be modified and could probably make close to that power output but it would be at its limits. our kit is not designed to compete with greddy's kit, we built ours for those ppl who wanted to push the limits of the renesis motor. who knows how much power a renesis can handle.... only time will tell
rotarygod
the rotary does require a much larger turbo to make the same power as a piston engine. I just thought i would offer an example from our dyno to assist with your statement.
gt35r on an rx7 can produce around 450-480rwhp
gt35r on a 4 cylinder 1.8 integra can produce around 570-630whp
i cannot find my rx7 dyno graph but i have the dyno's for the integra and as soon as I find the other graph for the rx7 i'll try to post them up.
hope that helps
jon
06-06-2006, 09:04 AM
#136
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Have any details been posted on Scott's upgraded kit other than the claim of 300hp at 5psi?
06-06-2006, 09:07 AM
#137
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WOW...too easy...
Go here, he gave a dyno that showed he made 299.something whp at 5psi:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-major-horsepower-upgrades-93/new-turbo-kit-88323/
Go here, he gave a dyno that showed he made 299.something whp at 5psi:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-major-horsepower-upgrades-93/new-turbo-kit-88323/
06-06-2006, 09:27 AM
#138
Originally Posted by carbonRX8
Uh huh, ok. Yes. That "Period." at the end makes it all fact. We shall just disagree until someone posts 350hp with it.
I'm light as a yellow canary feather. Sounds like you're worked up now. How is it my fault that you dont tell funny jokes?
I am not defending my set-up, as I agree it has it's limitations. The kit as shipped is pretty crappy. I am trying to dispell, or at least counter, myths that seem to be floating around. You're not making it easy.
I'm light as a yellow canary feather. Sounds like you're worked up now. How is it my fault that you dont tell funny jokes?
I am not defending my set-up, as I agree it has it's limitations. The kit as shipped is pretty crappy. I am trying to dispell, or at least counter, myths that seem to be floating around. You're not making it easy.
06-06-2006, 11:10 AM
#139
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Originally Posted by canaryrx8
If you're light as a feather why did you even respond then? It's obvious to me you have serious buyer's remorse, and a lame sense of humor, good luck with all that.
Oh, and good luck to you, as well.
06-06-2006, 12:27 PM
#140
that wasn't the impression I got at first but whatever, if you're stoked than more power to you (haha get it?)
On a totally different note, I think we got off on the wrong foot. I crack jokes all the time on here, some people get it, some people think I'm being serious (which is really really sad, after all it is just the internet) and some people probably don't care, in any case, I don't come on here to argue. I visit the site to learn, meet fellow owners, and lastly, (or firstly depending on my mood) cut up and be a smart *** about stuff. I could see where you're coming from as there is a ton of misinformation out there regarding all the different FI options for this car, and my poking fun at it probably doesn't help it as some folks might think I'm being serious. So if that irritated you I'll step up and say sorry, my bad, etc. Maybe I'll throw in a disclaimer next time so people know I'm kidding or something. I'm glad you're stoked with your car, this car gets slammed alot for it's very short list of shortcomings, so it's always nice to hear of someone who is happy with it. (I've been w/o mine for over a month due to an accident, going to be one happy day when I get to drive that thing out of the bodyshop parking lot)
On a totally different note, I think we got off on the wrong foot. I crack jokes all the time on here, some people get it, some people think I'm being serious (which is really really sad, after all it is just the internet) and some people probably don't care, in any case, I don't come on here to argue. I visit the site to learn, meet fellow owners, and lastly, (or firstly depending on my mood) cut up and be a smart *** about stuff. I could see where you're coming from as there is a ton of misinformation out there regarding all the different FI options for this car, and my poking fun at it probably doesn't help it as some folks might think I'm being serious. So if that irritated you I'll step up and say sorry, my bad, etc. Maybe I'll throw in a disclaimer next time so people know I'm kidding or something. I'm glad you're stoked with your car, this car gets slammed alot for it's very short list of shortcomings, so it's always nice to hear of someone who is happy with it. (I've been w/o mine for over a month due to an accident, going to be one happy day when I get to drive that thing out of the bodyshop parking lot)
06-06-2006, 01:34 PM
#142
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[QUOTE=MTLbroker].
In same issue of C/D the Vette gets 14 mpg on a 500 mile trip not 28 mpg. It still beat out the GT500, but I could never get a vette. Wifey calls it a ***** car. She'd divorce me. Besides, where would the inlaws/outlaws sit?
QUOTE]
Not to flame you or to diss you, but if your wife thinks a Vette is a ***** car, what would the RX-8 be? A ***** car, maybe.......
Or what about a Lamborgini or Ferrari? Would those cars be world largest or fastest ***** on 4 wheels?
Cars are cars, either we love them or we hate them, but to call them male or female body parts is kind of silly. Don't you think........
In same issue of C/D the Vette gets 14 mpg on a 500 mile trip not 28 mpg. It still beat out the GT500, but I could never get a vette. Wifey calls it a ***** car. She'd divorce me. Besides, where would the inlaws/outlaws sit?
QUOTE]
Not to flame you or to diss you, but if your wife thinks a Vette is a ***** car, what would the RX-8 be? A ***** car, maybe.......
Or what about a Lamborgini or Ferrari? Would those cars be world largest or fastest ***** on 4 wheels?
Cars are cars, either we love them or we hate them, but to call them male or female body parts is kind of silly. Don't you think........
Last edited by DailyDriver2k5; 06-06-2006 at 02:10 PM.
06-06-2006, 02:22 PM
#143
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^I must agree, I really dislike how people (like the new V-dub commercials) think most people buy cars to show off or because of something they lack. I love...LOVE sports cars and I admire the good in all of them, it has nothing to do with Mr. Happy...but it has everything to do with owning a car that is not as heavy as an airplane, turns like a boat, or floats like you are driving on marshmellows (minivan, SUV, trucks, normal sadans, cute utes, etc).
I like to feel like my car is being driven, instead of riding in it with no sense of what the car or tires want to do or what to expect next.
No offense, your wife can think what she wants...that's cool, but I disagree with her.
Is there a better bang for your buck than the Z06? I personally don't think there is anything even close...maybe the up and comming GT500, but I'd take a 45K Vette C6 over a 40K GT500 any day of the week.
Also, autoweek just tested a automatic Vette (look for the thread in the "general automotive" section) and it got slightly better than 28mpg...so how the heck did they get 14 is beyond me unless they gunned it the whole way.
I like to feel like my car is being driven, instead of riding in it with no sense of what the car or tires want to do or what to expect next.
No offense, your wife can think what she wants...that's cool, but I disagree with her.
Is there a better bang for your buck than the Z06? I personally don't think there is anything even close...maybe the up and comming GT500, but I'd take a 45K Vette C6 over a 40K GT500 any day of the week.
Also, autoweek just tested a automatic Vette (look for the thread in the "general automotive" section) and it got slightly better than 28mpg...so how the heck did they get 14 is beyond me unless they gunned it the whole way.
06-06-2006, 03:45 PM
#144
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just to let you guys know, the gas mileage test they gave our car was done in the 1 day they drove the car. All the 8 0-140 mph passes.... the skidpad..... the drive to and from the chrysler proving grounds..... which was basically a race between our rx8 and the 4 other cars brought to the test event, and there is NO SPEED LIMIT inside the proving grounds which i guess translated into 90-up
So the gas tank was emptied out almost completely in 1 day, so i highly doubt the gas mileage is a very accurate assumption of a daily driven cars mpg.
So the gas tank was emptied out almost completely in 1 day, so i highly doubt the gas mileage is a very accurate assumption of a daily driven cars mpg.
06-06-2006, 04:56 PM
#146
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lol ya it was AWESOME!!!! like one of the coolest things i had ever seen.
it had a top speed oval with banked turns..... they said if you go 120mph and hold the steering wheel straight it will make the turn on its own.
it had a top speed oval with banked turns..... they said if you go 120mph and hold the steering wheel straight it will make the turn on its own.
06-06-2006, 05:28 PM
#148
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Originally Posted by DailyDriver2k5
Cars are cars, either we love them or we hate them, but to call them male or female body parts is kind of silly. Don't you think........
06-06-2006, 06:50 PM
#149
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Originally Posted by canaryrx8
that wasn't the impression I got at first but whatever, if you're stoked than more power to you (haha get it?)
On a totally different note, I think we got off on the wrong foot.
On a totally different note, I think we got off on the wrong foot.
I was just being pointed and having fun. It's all good. I didnt think we were off on a bad foot. I thought we were just having spirited conversation. I didnt (and never do) take it personal. I will get your "drift" next time.
Jon, Thanks for the info about the article and good luck with the release (if it isnt released yet. I am still not clear on that point.)