Return of the ROTARY
10-20-2011, 12:36 AM
#176
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Massapequa, NY
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay, back to the topic. I recently found an old video from the 60s explaining the mechanics and benefits of a rotary engine,,,
Love how the describe it as 'more efficient' than a piston powered engine. One day, I hope it can live up to that.
Love how the describe it as 'more efficient' than a piston powered engine. One day, I hope it can live up to that.
10-20-2011, 09:05 AM
#178
2008 40th Anniversary
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How can we expect the American IGNORANT car buying public to understand these cars when the people selling them don't?
10-20-2011, 09:14 AM
#179
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Agreed, "branding" is one of the things Mazda sucks at best. And it is killing their bottom line, and their future. Besides "Zoom-zoom" what does the "average" car consumer know (and especially what does he covet) about Mazda? I'd venture nothing much than "economy car company". This translates into lackluster sales, poor repeat customer buys, and last, poor profits. In the PC world this has killed HP, Acer, and many others before them.
Alternatively, like them or hate them, Apple has been selling (highpriced/overpriced/whatever) highly BRANDED product for years. As many have said that this is a result of people drinking Apple's coolaid and so ... willingly paying way over what the product is worth/costs/whatever due to its perceived 'coolness factor" and "technology advantage".
Perhaps Mazda is one of the defacto "PC companies" of car makers... good product, good engineering, similar to others, but little marketing, no brand awareness, and little 'coolness factor", resulting in lousy profits. Let's see...
Now BMW has turned its BRAND into a marketing powerhouse, like Apple. Check out these astounding facts and you can see BMW is a company that has perfected the selling of product at a price far far exceeding it's production cost. In other words, people are throwing money at them, even in a poor economy, just like Apple!
Just how much mulla is that exactly? Well, 4462 Euros ($6188) per car, on average. BMW looks to have plenty of cash to stick in their development budget, say what?
Or you could look at Porsche...
How much is that? You do the math...20% of what some random Porsche costs is serious pocket change! Again, a non-essential object of desire in a lousy economy selling like hotcakes at premium prices!
Now I'll not bother going into the Korean's financial, but we know they are on a roll and have BRANDED and MARKETED themselves up by their bootstraps at an astounding rate. Lackluster product, sales, and profits banished!
=============
Bottom line, without creating the coolaid for consumers to drink before taking their money, even a good product produced by a company like Mazda can't be sold with enough profit, whether the product is an economy car or a luxury car. The question that is so obvious, is why is Mazda so insular and refuses or is incapable of changing or seeing the facts on their own financial reports? Why don't they get their marketing act together? They've got the engineering, they've got some of the right product ???!!!!
Alternatively, like them or hate them, Apple has been selling (highpriced/overpriced/whatever) highly BRANDED product for years. As many have said that this is a result of people drinking Apple's coolaid and so ... willingly paying way over what the product is worth/costs/whatever due to its perceived 'coolness factor" and "technology advantage".
Perhaps Mazda is one of the defacto "PC companies" of car makers... good product, good engineering, similar to others, but little marketing, no brand awareness, and little 'coolness factor", resulting in lousy profits. Let's see...
"Mazda lost $327m in the second quarter, falling below analyst expectations ... According to the Detroit News, this was Mazda’s third straight quarter of losses and the firm has lost money during its last three fiscal years. But its projected profit for the full year is only $12.8m, which means Mazda is cutting it real close… and as the last quarter proved, projections can always be missed. Here’s hoping the last independent, mass-market, enthusiast-oriented automaker is able to turn things around this year and keep fighting the good fight." (credit Truth About Cars 7/29/2011)
"Bayerische Motoren Werke AG (BMW), the world’s largest maker of luxury vehicles, earned more money per car than ever before in its 95-year history ... BMW’s earnings before interest and taxes more than quadrupled to 1.9 billion euros ($2.81 billion), beating the 1.54 billion-euro average estimate of 14 analysts surveyed by Bloomberg." (credit Bloomberg 5/4/2011 )
Or you could look at Porsche...
"The carmaker said first-half operating profits jumped from €675m to €1.1bn, while turnover rose by 19 per cent to €5.2bn ($7.3bn). The results imply an operating profit margin of more than 20 per cent – among the best in the industry." (credit Financial Times 8/1/2011)
Now I'll not bother going into the Korean's financial, but we know they are on a roll and have BRANDED and MARKETED themselves up by their bootstraps at an astounding rate. Lackluster product, sales, and profits banished!
=============
Bottom line, without creating the coolaid for consumers to drink before taking their money, even a good product produced by a company like Mazda can't be sold with enough profit, whether the product is an economy car or a luxury car. The question that is so obvious, is why is Mazda so insular and refuses or is incapable of changing or seeing the facts on their own financial reports? Why don't they get their marketing act together? They've got the engineering, they've got some of the right product ???!!!!
10-20-2011, 09:14 AM
#180
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 252 Likes
on
110 Posts
That point I can agree with.
The dealers need to really understand the cars they sell. Both salesmen and technicians.
Part of this problem ends up going back to the multiple-brand dealers here in the US. The technicians that spend all day working on Ford F150s reasonably won't have nearly the knowledge base or interest in a fickle little wankel.
The dealers need to really understand the cars they sell. Both salesmen and technicians.
Part of this problem ends up going back to the multiple-brand dealers here in the US. The technicians that spend all day working on Ford F150s reasonably won't have nearly the knowledge base or interest in a fickle little wankel.
10-20-2011, 09:38 AM
#181
Administrator
Okay, back to the topic. I recently found an old video from the 60s explaining the mechanics and benefits of a rotary engine,,,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChfT9cdUiyY
Love how the describe it as 'more efficient' than a piston powered engine. One day, I hope it can live up to that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChfT9cdUiyY
Love how the describe it as 'more efficient' than a piston powered engine. One day, I hope it can live up to that.
10-20-2011, 09:59 AM
#182
2008 40th Anniversary
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where do I buy on of these:
10-20-2011, 10:06 AM
#183
Registered
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I’ll give Mazda another 2-3 years, by then the STI will be paid off. If they have something fun and compelling that soundly beats the competition I’ll happily plunk down the dollars, if not then on to something else.
I’d love to see either something really light weight with good power or something RX8 weight with really good power. A 3 rotar would be fantastic but that would need to be an upper model halo. I don’t think that is feasible with a 2 rotar version as well. Like other manufacturers have 4, 6, 8 cylinder models/trims.
I’d love to see either something really light weight with good power or something RX8 weight with really good power. A 3 rotar would be fantastic but that would need to be an upper model halo. I don’t think that is feasible with a 2 rotar version as well. Like other manufacturers have 4, 6, 8 cylinder models/trims.
10-20-2011, 10:40 AM
#184
Mechanical Motion - no reciprocating movement
Packaging - Compact size
Power density - Highly powerful for the size/weight
Failure modes - they rarely sieze so in the event of failure you still have some power to get to a safe place
But as we all know, they are LESS Thermodynamically efficient so they waste more fuel as heat instead of useful power and also less tolerant to detonation and overheating.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
10-20-2011, 12:22 PM
#185
Agreed, "branding" is one of the things Mazda sucks at best. And it is killing their bottom line, and their future. Besides "Zoom-zoom" what does the "average" car consumer know (and especially what does he covet) about Mazda? I'd venture nothing much than "economy car company". This translates into lackluster sales, poor repeat customer buys, and last, poor profits. In the PC world this has killed HP, Acer, and many others before them.
Alternatively, like them or hate them, Apple has been selling (highpriced/overpriced/whatever) highly BRANDED product for years. As many have said that this is a result of people drinking Apple's coolaid and so ... willingly paying way over what the product is worth/costs/whatever due to its perceived 'coolness factor" and "technology advantage".
Perhaps Mazda is one of the defacto "PC companies" of car makers... good product, good engineering, similar to others, but little marketing, no brand awareness, and little 'coolness factor", resulting in lousy profits. Let's see...
Alternatively, like them or hate them, Apple has been selling (highpriced/overpriced/whatever) highly BRANDED product for years. As many have said that this is a result of people drinking Apple's coolaid and so ... willingly paying way over what the product is worth/costs/whatever due to its perceived 'coolness factor" and "technology advantage".
Perhaps Mazda is one of the defacto "PC companies" of car makers... good product, good engineering, similar to others, but little marketing, no brand awareness, and little 'coolness factor", resulting in lousy profits. Let's see...
and yea ... NONE of the dealerships I've been to has sales that knows what they're selling ... as for Tech, only a few knows what they are talking about ...
Now BMW has turned its BRAND into a marketing powerhouse, like Apple. Check out these astounding facts and you can see BMW is a company that has perfected the selling of product at a price far far exceeding it's production cost. In other words, people are throwing money at them, even in a poor economy, just like Apple!
Just how much mulla is that exactly? Well, 4462 Euros ($6188) per car, on average. BMW looks to have plenty of cash to stick in their development budget, say what?
Or you could look at Porsche...
How much is that? You do the math...20% of what some random Porsche costs is serious pocket change! Again, a non-essential object of desire in a lousy economy selling like hotcakes at premium prices!
Now I'll not bother going into the Korean's financial, but we know they are on a roll and have BRANDED and MARKETED themselves up by their bootstraps at an astounding rate. Lackluster product, sales, and profits banished!
=============
Bottom line, without creating the coolaid for consumers to drink before taking their money, even a good product produced by a company like Mazda can't be sold with enough profit, whether the product is an economy car or a luxury car. The question that is so obvious, is why is Mazda so insular and refuses or is incapable of changing or seeing the facts on their own financial reports? Why don't they get their marketing act together? They've got the engineering, they've got some of the right product ???!!!!
Just how much mulla is that exactly? Well, 4462 Euros ($6188) per car, on average. BMW looks to have plenty of cash to stick in their development budget, say what?
Or you could look at Porsche...
How much is that? You do the math...20% of what some random Porsche costs is serious pocket change! Again, a non-essential object of desire in a lousy economy selling like hotcakes at premium prices!
Now I'll not bother going into the Korean's financial, but we know they are on a roll and have BRANDED and MARKETED themselves up by their bootstraps at an astounding rate. Lackluster product, sales, and profits banished!
=============
Bottom line, without creating the coolaid for consumers to drink before taking their money, even a good product produced by a company like Mazda can't be sold with enough profit, whether the product is an economy car or a luxury car. The question that is so obvious, is why is Mazda so insular and refuses or is incapable of changing or seeing the facts on their own financial reports? Why don't they get their marketing act together? They've got the engineering, they've got some of the right product ???!!!!
Mazda already has some coolaid aka Rotary engine and most of us here drink it every day
so now they need to create different flavors of coolaid for the mass.
10-21-2011, 05:31 AM
#187
Super Moderator
Weak U.S. dollar helps Detroit automakers gain share
Just to show how the strong Yen is hurting Mazda and other importers due to the USA's weaker $$...
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11110203...ers-gain-share
Costlier imports have helped models such as the Chevy Cruze gain on Asian competitors::::::
A weaker American dollar is helping the Detroit Big Three automakers get back on their feet.
With the Korean Won and the Japanese Yen gaining on the dollar, imports by Asian automakers have become more expensive and that is getting reflected in their showroom prices.
Now, the gap between the price of import models and domestic ones is at the highest its been in 12 years. The average import sells for $31,536 in the United States compared to $23,922 for a domestic vehicle. That large gap is helping models such as the Chevrolet Cruze gain on its Asian competitors in a tough American economy.
But that gap also represent a change in the supply end of the business. As the tsunami disaster that hit Japan earlier this year curtailed exports and hit supplies for dealers of Japanese brands in the United States, that also helped domestic automakers who had ample supply of less-expensive cars. The share of imports that were premium models from Europe also grew as a percentage of all imports, serving to raise the average import price.
The weak dollar has helped brands like Chevrolet, which sold a record 1.2 million units in the third quarter of 2011 - a large chunk of those to customers in their home market. GM as a whole has gained one point in market share at home this year, through the month of September, which now stands at 20 percent. Ford's share of the market has also grown slightly to 16.7 percent.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11110203...ers-gain-share
Costlier imports have helped models such as the Chevy Cruze gain on Asian competitors::::::
A weaker American dollar is helping the Detroit Big Three automakers get back on their feet.
With the Korean Won and the Japanese Yen gaining on the dollar, imports by Asian automakers have become more expensive and that is getting reflected in their showroom prices.
Now, the gap between the price of import models and domestic ones is at the highest its been in 12 years. The average import sells for $31,536 in the United States compared to $23,922 for a domestic vehicle. That large gap is helping models such as the Chevrolet Cruze gain on its Asian competitors in a tough American economy.
But that gap also represent a change in the supply end of the business. As the tsunami disaster that hit Japan earlier this year curtailed exports and hit supplies for dealers of Japanese brands in the United States, that also helped domestic automakers who had ample supply of less-expensive cars. The share of imports that were premium models from Europe also grew as a percentage of all imports, serving to raise the average import price.
The weak dollar has helped brands like Chevrolet, which sold a record 1.2 million units in the third quarter of 2011 - a large chunk of those to customers in their home market. GM as a whole has gained one point in market share at home this year, through the month of September, which now stands at 20 percent. Ford's share of the market has also grown slightly to 16.7 percent.
10-21-2011, 01:51 PM
#188
Registered
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Roselle, NJ
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now BMW has turned its BRAND into a marketing powerhouse, like Apple. Check out these astounding facts and you can see BMW is a company that has perfected the selling of product at a price far far exceeding it's production cost. In other words, people are throwing money at them, even in a poor economy, just like Apple!
10-21-2011, 08:13 PM
#189
BMW makes their cars very high performers. Even their suvs are rockets. Their base models are hardly ever tested. Their mid models, i.e. 335, are faster than Mazdas Mazdaspeed models. Their hi performance models are supercars. If Mazda wants to compete on a BMW level they need to work on their performance.
A Mazda on the other hand, hmm lets start with the 6 cuz that's the "highest" grade Sedan in Mazda, starts at 20k, but a Loaded one can be obtain for less than 27K.
That's at least 10k difference.
You can't expect Mazda be able to come up with something at 20 something k to beat(both in performance and luxurious) a 30 something k bmw. No one could, even Hyundai, as much as people praise their engineering ability to make a 20-30K car looks like a 40K car, when you sit in one, you will know the difference.
Money buys you performance and luxury, Mazda is trying hard now to move their brand into the upper class, but it takes time, don't forget when Ford was in control, they (i feel it this way) purposely made Mazda brand a lammer version of the ford's counter parts.
Now Mazda with their skyactiv, they want to rebrand themselves into a company that has cool looking, ok hp cars that gives ya great mpg without the hybrid bs. Mazda 3 with only the engine and tranny and 12:1 compression already give them 155 hp amd 40 mpg highway, i cant wait to see cx5 with full 13.5:1 and 4-2-1 exhaust will have, probably 40 ish cuz cx5 will be a bit bigger.
Last edited by nycgps; 10-22-2011 at 11:43 AM.
10-22-2011, 11:47 AM
#190
Mazda is not perfect, far from it. they can learn a thing or 2 from Hyundai. both in "make it look like a higher class car" and "Customer service"
As some of you might know I got myself a 2011 Sonata Hybrid couple months ago (yeah Hybrid, I know,watever), the car drives fine but just like any "1st yr model", it came with a load of problems, from purge valve (they call it NVLP), to computer issues (P0406 keeps popping up)
I already had my gas cap replaced once, NVLP replaced once, ECU update once to solve the P0406 problem.
Lately, there has been reports of "at around 6000+ miles, the car "might" shuts off with the check charging system light on, when that happens, your car dies instantly, meaning you lose all the power and if you're on highway, you're pretty much screwed"
Hyundai heard of the problem about 2 months ago, shortly after I got my car and a new "ECU update" along with other 3 Service Campaign (Fancy version of RECALL) came out on Oct 3rd, this is the internet so the news spread quickly, so ppl rush to their dealerships to get it fix, sometimes they don't even have the parts yet.
I was one of the "early bird" so I got most of the fix (3 out of 4, no part) before I even get the official mail from Hyundai.
the 4 Service Campaign supposed to fix :
- ECU, check Charging light issue when the charging system has no problem at all, and also improved the TSM, BSM, HSM, logic, meaning improved MPG, Smoother up/down shift, etc
- NVLP 3rd version, the 2nd version still fails after a while
- Battery Terminal replacement, cuz from time to time you get this stupid "make sure you start the engine before using radio" even you already start the car.
- Cooling Fan Resistor Replacement/Update, the older version might fan meaning Fan not on = overheating.
Yesterday I got the official mail from Hyundai, I first was like "meh, I got most of them done already", but I opened the mail anyway and blah blah blah yea yea yea service campaign and I was reading it and noticed this part in the mail :
I was like ... waaaTTT ? 50 bux Gift card for me to have a Recall? that's a first. woo. more brand loyalty.
Oh one more thing about Hyundai that's better than Mazda is, they actually have a service web site thats "supposed" to be for dealer techs only, but it's really open to the general public, all you have to do is just sign up, and you get all the information about your car. what work has been done (at dealers), warranty time left, etc, just info, you know.
Mazda? ...
I mean I'm not a cheapass (am I ? ...) and it's not always about money, but hey if Mazda wanna get into a better position (more profit) then they need to work on their customer service side. Maybe give us a better loaner instead of the cheapest garbage we can get a Enterprise-Rent-A-Car, whatever, something that gives the customer a warming feel. know what I mean Mazda ?
As some of you might know I got myself a 2011 Sonata Hybrid couple months ago (yeah Hybrid, I know,watever), the car drives fine but just like any "1st yr model", it came with a load of problems, from purge valve (they call it NVLP), to computer issues (P0406 keeps popping up)
I already had my gas cap replaced once, NVLP replaced once, ECU update once to solve the P0406 problem.
Lately, there has been reports of "at around 6000+ miles, the car "might" shuts off with the check charging system light on, when that happens, your car dies instantly, meaning you lose all the power and if you're on highway, you're pretty much screwed"
Hyundai heard of the problem about 2 months ago, shortly after I got my car and a new "ECU update" along with other 3 Service Campaign (Fancy version of RECALL) came out on Oct 3rd, this is the internet so the news spread quickly, so ppl rush to their dealerships to get it fix, sometimes they don't even have the parts yet.
I was one of the "early bird" so I got most of the fix (3 out of 4, no part) before I even get the official mail from Hyundai.
the 4 Service Campaign supposed to fix :
- ECU, check Charging light issue when the charging system has no problem at all, and also improved the TSM, BSM, HSM, logic, meaning improved MPG, Smoother up/down shift, etc
- NVLP 3rd version, the 2nd version still fails after a while
- Battery Terminal replacement, cuz from time to time you get this stupid "make sure you start the engine before using radio" even you already start the car.
- Cooling Fan Resistor Replacement/Update, the older version might fan meaning Fan not on = overheating.
Yesterday I got the official mail from Hyundai, I first was like "meh, I got most of them done already", but I opened the mail anyway and blah blah blah yea yea yea service campaign and I was reading it and noticed this part in the mail :
We recognize that having this service performed will be na inconvenience to you, so Hyundai Motor America has arranged for you to receive a $50 cash gift card as our way of saying "thanks". The card will be mailed within 30 days of completion of this service campaign by your Authorized Hyundai Dealer ..."
Oh one more thing about Hyundai that's better than Mazda is, they actually have a service web site thats "supposed" to be for dealer techs only, but it's really open to the general public, all you have to do is just sign up, and you get all the information about your car. what work has been done (at dealers), warranty time left, etc, just info, you know.
Mazda? ...
I mean I'm not a cheapass (am I ? ...) and it's not always about money, but hey if Mazda wanna get into a better position (more profit) then they need to work on their customer service side. Maybe give us a better loaner instead of the cheapest garbage we can get a Enterprise-Rent-A-Car, whatever, something that gives the customer a warming feel. know what I mean Mazda ?
Last edited by nycgps; 10-22-2011 at 11:53 AM.
10-22-2011, 12:01 PM
#191
Super Moderator
Yeah...you are a cheapass...easily bought.
...$50 bucks is that all!!..where is the free service!
Mazda learn a thing or two??, well they did give out $500 + free servicing with the RX-8 HP thing in the US, or something like that.
Mazda USA has a Service site, isn't is called MyMazda?
I do agree with your last part..."Mazda (US)" needs to work on their customer service side
...$50 bucks is that all!!..where is the free service!Mazda learn a thing or two??, well they did give out $500 + free servicing with the RX-8 HP thing in the US, or something like that.
Mazda USA has a Service site, isn't is called MyMazda?
I do agree with your last part..."Mazda (US)" needs to work on their customer service side
10-22-2011, 02:56 PM
#192
Yeah...you are a cheapass...easily bought....$50 bucks is that all!!..where is the free service!
Mazda learn a thing or two??, well they did give out $500 + free servicing with the RX-8 HP thing in the US, or something like that.
Mazda USA has a Service site, isn't is called MyMazda?
I do agree with your last part..."Mazda (US)" needs to work on their customer service side
...$50 bucks is that all!!..where is the free service!Mazda learn a thing or two??, well they did give out $500 + free servicing with the RX-8 HP thing in the US, or something like that.
Mazda USA has a Service site, isn't is called MyMazda?
I do agree with your last part..."Mazda (US)" needs to work on their customer service side
10-24-2011, 09:25 AM
#193
Registered
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Roselle, NJ
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I mean I'm not a cheapass (am I ? ...) and it's not always about money, but hey if Mazda wanna get into a better position (more profit) then they need to work on their customer service side. Maybe give us a better loaner instead of the cheapest garbage we can get a Enterprise-Rent-A-Car, whatever, something that gives the customer a warming feel. know what I mean Mazda ?
10-27-2011, 10:06 AM
#194
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Massapequa, NY
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was on Google +, and found this article in my sparks that's low on substance, high on promise...
Mazda To Re-Release The Rotary RX-7, Goodbye RX-8
October 24th, 2011 
The Mazda RX-8 was introduced over six years ago, not that long ago, but is slated to be nixed from the lineup starting next year in 2011. Why has this contemporary, rotary powered engined sportscar lost the battle in automotive sales? Well the biggest problem is it’s lack of economic and environmental attributes. It has poor fuel efficiency, high exhaust emissions and excessive oil consumption. When Felix Wankel designed the rotary powered engine for Mazda many years ago, the emphasis was on power not economy or environmental concerns. It’s a sportscar after all, and we expect the powerful rumble from under the hood, not the purr of a kitten. When the RX-8 was first introduced, consumers fell in love with the styling of this racy Mazda model. It combined the silhouette of a classic sports car with some unusual updated details. It’s long front hood and wide pronounced flared fenders gave the wide look of muscle cars of the past. A must for sports cars these days, everything old is new again. However looks aside, the thirsty engine does not translate well between old and new expectations. The bulk of the engine power comes on at top end, meaning you really have to get her going before the power is noticeable. This causes the fuel consumption to sop up the gas much like a bigger SUV engine. We are fickle consumers I guess; we want the old school looks and feel of a sports car, but with all of the new millennium low fuel mileage and environmental minimal footprint. That’s exactly what Mazda is hoping to do with the re vamping re-release of the RX-7 in 2012. Good bye RX-8, hello again RX-7.
The soon to be introduced Mazda RX-7 is expected to be powered by an all new 16X rotary engine which Mazda been developing for the past few years. It is a regeneration of the 13B found in the older RX-8 version. This new rotary engine will have a revised eccentric shaft producing lower end torque. The pure sports car approach makes a lot of sense to rotary aficionados, who saw the RX-8 as a meager compromise. Mazda is trying everything possible these days to be competitive in the Japanese sport scar arena. It’s expected that in the very near future, the Japanese market will be full of high performance sports cars and Mazda needs to get into gear to be part of the revolution. The styling of the new 2012 RX-7 is similar to the RX-8 with raised wheel arches and that familiar bulge in the hood to cover the revamped rotary engine.
I’m a little excited taking about this newly re-vamped RX-7 out for a spin. I expect Mazda to show off a pre-production model later in 2010 when they get closer to officially announcing the car. It’s sad to see the RX-8 go, but Mazda already has the MX-5 and any auto maker worth its salt knows it’s not necessary to have three sport cars in their brand’s lineup.
October 24th, 2011 The Mazda RX-8 was introduced over six years ago, not that long ago, but is slated to be nixed from the lineup starting next year in 2011. Why has this contemporary, rotary powered engined sportscar lost the battle in automotive sales? Well the biggest problem is it’s lack of economic and environmental attributes. It has poor fuel efficiency, high exhaust emissions and excessive oil consumption. When Felix Wankel designed the rotary powered engine for Mazda many years ago, the emphasis was on power not economy or environmental concerns. It’s a sportscar after all, and we expect the powerful rumble from under the hood, not the purr of a kitten. When the RX-8 was first introduced, consumers fell in love with the styling of this racy Mazda model. It combined the silhouette of a classic sports car with some unusual updated details. It’s long front hood and wide pronounced flared fenders gave the wide look of muscle cars of the past. A must for sports cars these days, everything old is new again. However looks aside, the thirsty engine does not translate well between old and new expectations. The bulk of the engine power comes on at top end, meaning you really have to get her going before the power is noticeable. This causes the fuel consumption to sop up the gas much like a bigger SUV engine. We are fickle consumers I guess; we want the old school looks and feel of a sports car, but with all of the new millennium low fuel mileage and environmental minimal footprint. That’s exactly what Mazda is hoping to do with the re vamping re-release of the RX-7 in 2012. Good bye RX-8, hello again RX-7.
The soon to be introduced Mazda RX-7 is expected to be powered by an all new 16X rotary engine which Mazda been developing for the past few years. It is a regeneration of the 13B found in the older RX-8 version. This new rotary engine will have a revised eccentric shaft producing lower end torque. The pure sports car approach makes a lot of sense to rotary aficionados, who saw the RX-8 as a meager compromise. Mazda is trying everything possible these days to be competitive in the Japanese sport scar arena. It’s expected that in the very near future, the Japanese market will be full of high performance sports cars and Mazda needs to get into gear to be part of the revolution. The styling of the new 2012 RX-7 is similar to the RX-8 with raised wheel arches and that familiar bulge in the hood to cover the revamped rotary engine.
I’m a little excited taking about this newly re-vamped RX-7 out for a spin. I expect Mazda to show off a pre-production model later in 2010 when they get closer to officially announcing the car. It’s sad to see the RX-8 go, but Mazda already has the MX-5 and any auto maker worth its salt knows it’s not necessary to have three sport cars in their brand’s lineup.
10-27-2011, 10:16 AM
#195
Registered
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The RX8 didn't sell well because:
1. Mazda rarely ever advertised it
2. It was low on power from the get go with no serious improvement
3. Few people understand the Rotary and confusion is an anti-selling point
4. First year factory tuning bugs did not help either
5. By the time Mazda got the bugs worked our and updated the Renesis with an extra oil injector, better fuel pump, and additional oil cooler for auto tragics, they had completely stopped advertising after the reputation had been solidified.
I love my RX8 and at 157,000 miles intend to keep on zooming for years to come, but I am in the minority because of Mazda's inept marketing and poor service response. If Mazda wants to bring back another rotary car they had better get their act together and properly market the improvements.
1. Mazda rarely ever advertised it
2. It was low on power from the get go with no serious improvement
3. Few people understand the Rotary and confusion is an anti-selling point
4. First year factory tuning bugs did not help either
5. By the time Mazda got the bugs worked our and updated the Renesis with an extra oil injector, better fuel pump, and additional oil cooler for auto tragics, they had completely stopped advertising after the reputation had been solidified.
I love my RX8 and at 157,000 miles intend to keep on zooming for years to come, but I am in the minority because of Mazda's inept marketing and poor service response. If Mazda wants to bring back another rotary car they had better get their act together and properly market the improvements.
Last edited by musclecarconvrt; 10-27-2011 at 10:20 AM.
10-27-2011, 12:57 PM
#196
When my 8 was still under warranty and it needed work my Mazda dealer always gave me a Hyundai as a loaner as it ws a Mazda/Hyundai dealer. I always complained that I wanted to test the Mazda3 or 6 but always a Hyundai. Pissed me off at the time. Now, I almost (I said almost) would look at getting a Hyundai loaner as an upgrade. Too bad my 8 is out of warranty and I no longer get loaners.
but it does have quite a lot of not obvious problems/issues that new buyers might not notice it when they're buying it. for example :
It has garbage tires, period.
garbage handling, well it might have something to do with the garbage OE tires, I have 7 K on them already, will rotate it soon, then another 7K miles I will dump it for some Continential DWS or Potenza RE970 A/S Pole Position, hope the handling will be better.
mpg is never as good as the sticker, well its truth for most other cars but for NYC driving, I'm getting 28-30 ONLY.
the car rattles, and it's a bitch to find/fix them.
and many other small little thing.
I should got myself the Genesis it might be better. but that's another 6-7 K, I could have got myself a nice Lexus that never rattles.
other sports car around the same price has about the same mpg, jesus. if you floor it every red light of course mpg gonna be poor. but I guess thought rx8 is "slow" so it does not deserve the mpg. 232 hp is not fast, but it ain't slow, it just has little torque. funny they don't complaint Honda FIT for lack of torque/power.
oil consumption ... if a quart of oil every 1 to 1.5K miles is "excessive" then maybe these morons need to check their piston engine's oil level and come back to me.
The RX8 didn't sell well because:
1. Mazda rarely ever advertised it
2. It was low on power from the get go with no serious improvement
3. Few people understand the Rotary and confusion is an anti-selling point
4. First year factory tuning bugs did not help either
5. By the time Mazda got the bugs worked our and updated the Renesis with an extra oil injector, better fuel pump, and additional oil cooler for auto tragics, they had completely stopped advertising after the reputation had been solidified.
I love my RX8 and at 157,000 miles intend to keep on zooming for years to come, but I am in the minority because of Mazda's inept marketing and poor service response. If Mazda wants to bring back another rotary car they had better get their act together and properly market the improvements.
1. Mazda rarely ever advertised it
2. It was low on power from the get go with no serious improvement
3. Few people understand the Rotary and confusion is an anti-selling point
4. First year factory tuning bugs did not help either
5. By the time Mazda got the bugs worked our and updated the Renesis with an extra oil injector, better fuel pump, and additional oil cooler for auto tragics, they had completely stopped advertising after the reputation had been solidified.
I love my RX8 and at 157,000 miles intend to keep on zooming for years to come, but I am in the minority because of Mazda's inept marketing and poor service response. If Mazda wants to bring back another rotary car they had better get their act together and properly market the improvements.
2. Lack of Torque you mean, but that's due to 13B's limitation. with the right porting you can get another 20-30 hp. but it's going to hurt mpg.
3. You mean people refused to understand new stuff/stuff that they have never heard of, instead of trying to learn, most people would just talk trash and hope it will go away. ask the Honda guys.
4. Mazda underestimate/overestimate the MOP position/effectiveness. engineers are not perfect, they can mess up too, it's just that this time the mess is just too obvious. no excuse ...
5. yep, too little too late.
I've been thinking maybe I should trade my S1 8 for a S2 8 ... cuz I'm pretty sure I can get a R3 for around 24 even 22 K now ... very temping. but I spent so much time on my S2 I dont know if Im ready to let it go ... for cheap
Last edited by nycgps; 10-27-2011 at 01:09 PM.
