olddragger

iTrader: (3)

https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1319764100

this better?

77mjd

I'm guessing if/when there is another rotary car, it will be the last one that is presented in Mazda's entirely revamped lineup. We now have the new SkyActiv 3, with the CX-5, 6 and MX-5 to follow. If there is another rotary, I'd bet it's 4-5 years out at least but I'm still hoping for the miracle that Mazda surprises us with something coming out of nowhere in the next year or 2.

foo77

^ no worries.. they will surprise us with this number 2 0 1 2

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

it will be out as 2013 model, I'm sure.

how sure? I don't know, my guts is telling me that number.

MattMPS

edit...

Roaddemon

I found this on google. Mazda's rx 7 replacement for the rx8. Hope it happens because I really will want one.


http://www.auto-types.com/autonews/2...gine-7273.html

Spin9k

^ def: porker - a heavier than RX-8, 3100 lb rotary would be a disaster.

Roaddemon

The turbo and hybid technology will add weight. Looks like Mazda wants to target the z370 with this car.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Please don't act like that story has any level of legitimacy to it. That is someone's pipe dream and/or drugged haze. Notice it was published in March, before Mazda would confirm they are still working on a rotary at all, using concept pictures from several different sources that aren't even all the same car, and saying "2012" when we know there isn't going to be a 2012 rotary.

The next Miata has a target weight of 2,100lbs, and all of Mazda's models are coming down in weight. They wouldn't increase the weight of the next rotary.

Roaddemon

[quote=RIWWP;4112269]Please don't act like that story has any level of legitimacy to it. That is someone's pipe dream and/or drugged haze. Notice it was published in March, before Mazda would confirm they are still working on a rotary at all, using concept pictures from several different sources that aren't even all the same car, and saying "2012" when we know there isn't going to be a 2012 rotary.

The next Miata has a target weight of 2,100lbs, and all of Mazda's models are coming down in weight. They wouldn't increase the weight of the next rotary. [/quote




You never know. They might surprise us 2013. Mazda does not have a hybid in their lineup yet. Why not the rotary? Makes sense for a rotary hybrid. It would get alot of free press. Put mazda back on the map of innovation. Just like the skyactive system does for the 3 model.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

100% agree that the next rotary very well may have some level of hybrid tech in it. It will NOT be the completely-horrific-terribad hybrid example of the Prius. Toyota has made lots of money on "how not to build a hybrid".

There are hybrid technology options which add negligible weight to the car, including a KERS type system, series hybrid, etc... Take a look at the Namir for an example of raw performance (~3sec 0-60, 190+ top speed) in a lightweight chassis (<1,800lbs) that is entirely "hybrid" (97.1mpg). It even uses a turbocharged rotary for the powerplant. Sure, the Namir is costly, and part of that is the development, part is the fact that they are asking that level of performance. Chop that performance to mundane levels and the cost drops quite a bit.


I don't necessary believe that the next rotary "will" or "will not" have hybrid tech in it, though electrically assisted power delivery is exactly opposite of what the rotary power delivery is, and if you blended the two for the best of each it could be seriously potent. And we know Mazda took out several hybrid tech patents and it was announced that they are collaborating with Toyota for some of their tech. So that is going to show up at some point, and it very well may or may not be on the next rotary. The SkyActive tech is likely to show up on the next rotary though, regardless of what other hybrid tech may. (The parts that apply anyway: exhaust design, combustion shaping, charge cooling, etc...)

pking1122

I can say that I don't see Mazda going Hybrid, especially with the Rotary. I view the Skyactiv tech as a giant middle finger to the rest of the auto industry. Mazda has developed ways to get hybrid like fuel economy for a fraction the price. The real reason none of the hybrid models are selling in large volumes is because its not cost effective to the buyer. The appeal for driving a hybrid to save gas money is lost. If Mazda can design a light weight Rotary with Skyactiv tech (maybe borrow Ford's eco boost tech), then they will have a winner.

Spin9k

(rounded) Prius sales numbers, by year in USA only:

2000 – 6,000
2001 – 16,000
2002 – 20,000
2003 – 23,000
2004 – 54,000
2005 – 98,000
2006 – 108,000
2007 – 179,000
2008 – 159,000
2009 – 140,000
2010 – 141,000
2011 – 172,000 (estimated based on 43,000 in Q1, 2011)

That's over a million in the USA and over 3,000,000 wordwide!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

pk, that statement is partially true. People don't buy today's hybrids for the gas mileage. They buy them because of the political or social value in being able to say "I own a hybrid". (and I include the people that buy them just to be able to us HOV lanes in certain areas that allow hybrids in them). Anyone who was truly serious about mileage would pick cars like the Insight, which got 60mpg without being a hybrid before hybrids took off. The rest is just marketing hype.

The hybrids are certainly selling well though, it's not "poor sales" at all. Plenty of people buy into the hype and illusion.

ASH8

Comparing RX-8 sales to the Prius is just silly.

Sales of hybrids are still less than 1% of total production, even for Toyota.

Mazda's investment in Skyactiv makes it a sensible investment and will be class leading for a while.

Why would Mazda invest huge amounts of money into Hybrids (hence their license with Toyota).

Spin9k

^ agreed, and trust me, I'm not into hybrids personally. Complication for complications sake right now. Elegant SkyActive technology is systemic progress the world needs. I do love energy storage devices however, and hybrid demand creates NASA-like improvements in them. Now often results are poor. But SkyActive and some type of hybrid tech is key for the future.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I agree with practically everything you are saying except for the need to borrow any Ford tech.

Paul.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I so agreed

It's kinda sad, consider my Sonata Hybrid has "only" 40 mpg hwy, a Mazda3 w/o high compression piston nor 4-2-1 header gets 40 already ... well I mean the Sonata Hybrid is a 3500 lbs car but still ...

Where are you CX-5 ? if Mazda can release CX-5 with Sky-D soon enough, I might jump over

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Probably 16 months away.

Paul.

pking1122

I hear that. Maybe not a direct copy of their technology itself, but I was looking at a way of introducing some forced induction. If Mazda can reach their targets without it, I'm sure they won't bother with it anyway.

pking1122

Great point on the Hybrid Sonata. The ion batteries in the Hybrid add about 300lbs of weight. It will be interesting how the new Mazda 6 stacks up in comparison.

A CX-5 seems very appealing as a DD. Small, roomy, useful, and fuel efficient. Right up my ally.

Rx8vsMalibu

I love the looks of that mx-5. I would take this over the porsche boxter spyder. It would be half the price.

neit_jnf

the rotary is capable of very low bsfc in the right direct injected application, the challenge is the cat converter tech needed for this.

this combined with the skyactiv i-stop and regenerative braking could result in a suprising fuel efficiency along with the smoothness and power characteristic of the rotary we all know and love

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Well, a while ago Mazda invented some new CAT tech. dunno if it works for Rotary engines. it'd be cool if it does.

Metallic CAT should always work, but the ceramic CAT we have now cost like 800 bux (discounted) new ... Metallic CAT will cost 3 times of that.

999miki

+1
Even conventionally injected rotary is capable of quite good BSFC numbers - at full load. At part load its disaster Direct injection as it was examined decades ago is better in whole load range due to absence of throttle plate and overall better combustion thanks to better stratification and burn rate.

The problem with cat converter, in the way Mazda research paper described it, lies in to cold EGTs for proper function of cat. Why is there cat in the first place when such engine can operate with much lower HC and CO emissions than conventional RE is beyond me It must be in something that every car must be equiped with working catalyst system

BTW whats the point of these discussions? Does anyone here actually know main culprit of wankel engine poor performance at low load? I´m just sick of all that marketing crap