RX-8 one of 10 ugliest vehicles
10-22-2005, 01:50 PM
#127
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I have always not respected JD Power. I have seen their techincal sampling data and it does not accurately reflect consumer ratings. It appears to skew towards particular manufacturers.
For example, if you go there and compare the RX8 and Nissan 350Z the 8 gets slammed all the way down the list with 2's and some 3's. The Nissan gets 5's all the way down. However, if you pull up the retained value of the RX8 it gets a 5 out of 5, which is among the best. How can a car that scores so low in every category actually retain such a high value?
Let me tell you how.
How I participated in all sorts of surveys, including JD Power. These were all on my Mazda 3 but the questions are the same.
In the first part, they ask you questions about your car. Lots of questions. I suppose, most people who answer this part favorably for their car. I mean, wouldn't it seem dumb for someone to rate their brand new 2 month old car as a 1 out of 5 in appearance considering they liked it enough to buy it?
The second part is the interesting part. They ask you to rank some cars that you also considered and cars you would not consider and why. So, basically you can slam the cars you don't like.
Their questions are also skewed. They don't ask the question: "Why wouldn't you buy your least desirable car?".
They ask questions liek this " If your least desirable car is american than is that the main reason that you would not buy it?"
They are very leading.
Anyways, people who buy Z's hate RX8's for some reason. One of my coworkers bought a Z a few months ago. The moment I rolled up in my 8 the comparisons started among the other employees. Now there's this Z/RX8 division at work. It could be that Z owners are gettign a chance to slam 8's onthe JD Power survery.
If you go to Edmunds/MSN/Kelly or where ever, the 8's always do good. Usualy 8 or so out of 10.
If anyone else has taken a JD survey they'll know what I am talking about with the questions being leading.
For example, if you go there and compare the RX8 and Nissan 350Z the 8 gets slammed all the way down the list with 2's and some 3's. The Nissan gets 5's all the way down. However, if you pull up the retained value of the RX8 it gets a 5 out of 5, which is among the best. How can a car that scores so low in every category actually retain such a high value?
Let me tell you how.
How I participated in all sorts of surveys, including JD Power. These were all on my Mazda 3 but the questions are the same.
In the first part, they ask you questions about your car. Lots of questions. I suppose, most people who answer this part favorably for their car. I mean, wouldn't it seem dumb for someone to rate their brand new 2 month old car as a 1 out of 5 in appearance considering they liked it enough to buy it?
The second part is the interesting part. They ask you to rank some cars that you also considered and cars you would not consider and why. So, basically you can slam the cars you don't like.
Their questions are also skewed. They don't ask the question: "Why wouldn't you buy your least desirable car?".
They ask questions liek this " If your least desirable car is american than is that the main reason that you would not buy it?"
They are very leading.
Anyways, people who buy Z's hate RX8's for some reason. One of my coworkers bought a Z a few months ago. The moment I rolled up in my 8 the comparisons started among the other employees. Now there's this Z/RX8 division at work. It could be that Z owners are gettign a chance to slam 8's onthe JD Power survery.
If you go to Edmunds/MSN/Kelly or where ever, the 8's always do good. Usualy 8 or so out of 10.
If anyone else has taken a JD survey they'll know what I am talking about with the questions being leading.
10-22-2005, 03:08 PM
#130
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Very few of the people in this thread seem to understand how these lists were generated. And pieces in the press, which constantly reads things in whichever way will make the best "story," aren't going to help.
The J.D. Power circle ratings are based on owners' reported satisfaction with various areas of their car. The average response gets three dots. If a car gets an 8 out of 10, but the average is 9, it could well get two dots. Still 8 out of 10.
What this means is that it takes a very high rating to score well above average. When the sample includes only people who actually bought the car, and thus must have liked it, then this only tends to happen when most people bought the car for one specific reason--i.e. the rest of the car isn't so hot, so they had to really, really like one aspect in order to buy the thing.
Conversely, a car that does many things well isn't likely to score very high in any area, as some people likely bought it and really like one aspect, while others bought it and really like another aspect. And no aspect has to heavily compensate for another.
End result: cars that do many things well don't make the top of any of the lists.
As for the RX-8, as much as many people like the styling other owners likely preferred the styling of a Z or G35, but bought the Mazda anyway because they preferred its handling or rear seat room. End result: a relatively low score on styliing.
One thing with all such reports is they rely on RELATIVE ratings. Relative ratings can be very misleading, not only because you don't know how high the average is, but how much differenence there actually is between, say, two dots and four dots. Often all of the average ratings are so close together that tenths will separate each level. So, for example, one dot might be a 7.2 out of 10, two a 7.5, three a 7.9, four an 8.2, and five an 8.5.
Now, these numbers are totally hypothetical. But I observed styling clinics conducted by an automaker where people were asked to rate the styling of alternative designs under consideration. I always thought it was silly how they made decisions based on scores that differed, in most cases, by tenths of a point on a five-point scale.
When bad is a 7.2 and excellent is an 8.5, personal preferense should clearly be your guide.
This is why, in my own research on vehicle reliability, I'll stress absolute ratings and absolute differences.
The J.D. Power circle ratings are based on owners' reported satisfaction with various areas of their car. The average response gets three dots. If a car gets an 8 out of 10, but the average is 9, it could well get two dots. Still 8 out of 10.
What this means is that it takes a very high rating to score well above average. When the sample includes only people who actually bought the car, and thus must have liked it, then this only tends to happen when most people bought the car for one specific reason--i.e. the rest of the car isn't so hot, so they had to really, really like one aspect in order to buy the thing.
Conversely, a car that does many things well isn't likely to score very high in any area, as some people likely bought it and really like one aspect, while others bought it and really like another aspect. And no aspect has to heavily compensate for another.
End result: cars that do many things well don't make the top of any of the lists.
As for the RX-8, as much as many people like the styling other owners likely preferred the styling of a Z or G35, but bought the Mazda anyway because they preferred its handling or rear seat room. End result: a relatively low score on styliing.
One thing with all such reports is they rely on RELATIVE ratings. Relative ratings can be very misleading, not only because you don't know how high the average is, but how much differenence there actually is between, say, two dots and four dots. Often all of the average ratings are so close together that tenths will separate each level. So, for example, one dot might be a 7.2 out of 10, two a 7.5, three a 7.9, four an 8.2, and five an 8.5.
Now, these numbers are totally hypothetical. But I observed styling clinics conducted by an automaker where people were asked to rate the styling of alternative designs under consideration. I always thought it was silly how they made decisions based on scores that differed, in most cases, by tenths of a point on a five-point scale.
When bad is a 7.2 and excellent is an 8.5, personal preferense should clearly be your guide.
This is why, in my own research on vehicle reliability, I'll stress absolute ratings and absolute differences.
10-22-2005, 03:35 PM
#131
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Like I've said before, the RX-8 is a rather polarizing design. I ask a lot of friends and people I know what they think of the RX-8, pretty mixed reviews with many people liking the looks and many people not liking the looks.
If I were to ask the same thing about the WRX I'm sure I wouldn't get many people saying bad things about it. In fact I get nothing but compliments on my car. But I realize that's because they know I own one and people in general aren't going to trash something you own to your face.
Personally, I think there are some awkward lines and the RX-8 a bit garish, but overall I like the looks quite a bit.
If I were to ask the same thing about the WRX I'm sure I wouldn't get many people saying bad things about it. In fact I get nothing but compliments on my car. But I realize that's because they know I own one and people in general aren't going to trash something you own to your face.
Personally, I think there are some awkward lines and the RX-8 a bit garish, but overall I like the looks quite a bit.
10-22-2005, 09:02 PM
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Am I missing something? Is there someone out there who thinks that the WRX is a beautiful car? I always assumed it was a car that people bought strictly because of how it performs.
10-23-2005, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Like I've said before, the RX-8 is a rather polarizing design. I ask a lot of friends and people I know what they think of the RX-8, pretty mixed reviews with many people liking the looks and many people not liking the looks.
If I were to ask the same thing about the WRX I'm sure I wouldn't get many people saying bad things about it. In fact I get nothing but compliments on my car. But I realize that's because they know I own one and people in general aren't going to trash something you own to your face.
Personally, I think there are some awkward lines and the RX-8 a bit garish, but overall I like the looks quite a bit.
If I were to ask the same thing about the WRX I'm sure I wouldn't get many people saying bad things about it. In fact I get nothing but compliments on my car. But I realize that's because they know I own one and people in general aren't going to trash something you own to your face.
Personally, I think there are some awkward lines and the RX-8 a bit garish, but overall I like the looks quite a bit.
Originally Posted by mkaresh
Am I missing something? Is there someone out there who thinks that the WRX is a beautiful car? I always assumed it was a car that people bought strictly because of how it performs.
10-23-2005, 04:49 AM
#137
ART/HISTORY/MATHMATICS LESSON TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the RX-8 is one of the few cars cars in the world (if the only car) that follows the Golden Section...also referred to the Divine Section (and the Golden Secret by many medieval painters)
the Golden Section is the perfect merge of mathmatics and art (and architecture)...perfection in design is achieved through a strict adherence to the structure of the Golden section.
The Golden Section is also the basis for Fibonacci's sequence.
Historical Examples/Figures of the Golden Section
-The ancient Egyptians-pyramids, tomb design (first use of Golden Section on record)
-Pythagoras, Greek geometer, was especially interested in the golden section, and proved that it was the basis for the proportions of the human figure
-The Parthenon
-Leonardo da Vinci had displayed an ardent interest in the mathematics of art and nature. Same as Pythagoras, he had concluded a close study of the human figure and had shown how all of its parts were interrelated, based on the golden section proportion.
-La Parade (fyi famous abstract painting), painted in distinguishing multi-dotted style of the French neo-impressionist Seurat (1859-1891), contains numerous examples of golden proportions.
-Salvador Dali-The Sacrament of the Last Supper is painted inside a golden rectangle. Golden proportions were used, when positioning the figures. Part of an enormous dodecahedron floats above the table. The polyhedron consists of 12 regular pentagons and has fundamental golden section connections.
-Le Corbusier the 20th Century architect, developed a scale of proportions, which he called Le Modulor. It was based on the structure of a human body, whose height is divided into a golden section commencing at the navel. The same proportion can be seen in his modern flats. Le Corbusier felt that human life was "comforted" by mathematics.
the RX-8 is one of the few cars cars in the world (if the only car) that follows the Golden Section...also referred to the Divine Section (and the Golden Secret by many medieval painters)
the Golden Section is the perfect merge of mathmatics and art (and architecture)...perfection in design is achieved through a strict adherence to the structure of the Golden section.
The Golden Section is also the basis for Fibonacci's sequence.
Historical Examples/Figures of the Golden Section
-The ancient Egyptians-pyramids, tomb design (first use of Golden Section on record)
-Pythagoras, Greek geometer, was especially interested in the golden section, and proved that it was the basis for the proportions of the human figure
-The Parthenon
-Leonardo da Vinci had displayed an ardent interest in the mathematics of art and nature. Same as Pythagoras, he had concluded a close study of the human figure and had shown how all of its parts were interrelated, based on the golden section proportion.
-La Parade (fyi famous abstract painting), painted in distinguishing multi-dotted style of the French neo-impressionist Seurat (1859-1891), contains numerous examples of golden proportions.
-Salvador Dali-The Sacrament of the Last Supper is painted inside a golden rectangle. Golden proportions were used, when positioning the figures. Part of an enormous dodecahedron floats above the table. The polyhedron consists of 12 regular pentagons and has fundamental golden section connections.
-Le Corbusier the 20th Century architect, developed a scale of proportions, which he called Le Modulor. It was based on the structure of a human body, whose height is divided into a golden section commencing at the navel. The same proportion can be seen in his modern flats. Le Corbusier felt that human life was "comforted" by mathematics.
10-23-2005, 08:56 AM
#138
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BWAHAHAHAHAH...I own two cars on that list 1) RX8 2) the Element
I can see where the Element would make that list, but I think that the RX8 is one the better looking cars.
Who are these people 'polled'
.
I can see where the Element would make that list, but I think that the RX8 is one the better looking cars.
Who are these people 'polled'
.
10-23-2005, 09:37 AM
#139
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The responders must be over 60 on avg
Looking at what was deemed "ugly" (rx8, celica, lexus)and what was deemed "attractive" (magnum, 300, pt cruiser, ssr) I'd guess the respondents were of the genus 'oldias fartius'.
10-23-2005, 01:13 PM
#140
Originally Posted by truemagellen
ART/HISTORY/MATHMATICS LESSON TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the RX-8 is one of the few cars cars in the world (if the only car) that follows the Golden Section...also referred to the Divine Section (and the Golden Secret by many medieval painters)
the Golden Section is the perfect merge of mathmatics and art (and architecture)...perfection in design is achieved through a strict adherence to the structure of the Golden section.
The Golden Section is also the basis for Fibonacci's sequence.
Historical Examples/Figures of the Golden Section
-The ancient Egyptians-pyramids, tomb design (first use of Golden Section on record)
-Pythagoras, Greek geometer, was especially interested in the golden section, and proved that it was the basis for the proportions of the human figure
-The Parthenon
-Leonardo da Vinci had displayed an ardent interest in the mathematics of art and nature. Same as Pythagoras, he had concluded a close study of the human figure and had shown how all of its parts were interrelated, based on the golden section proportion.
-La Parade (fyi famous abstract painting), painted in distinguishing multi-dotted style of the French neo-impressionist Seurat (1859-1891), contains numerous examples of golden proportions.
-Salvador Dali-The Sacrament of the Last Supper is painted inside a golden rectangle. Golden proportions were used, when positioning the figures. Part of an enormous dodecahedron floats above the table. The polyhedron consists of 12 regular pentagons and has fundamental golden section connections.
-Le Corbusier the 20th Century architect, developed a scale of proportions, which he called Le Modulor. It was based on the structure of a human body, whose height is divided into a golden section commencing at the navel. The same proportion can be seen in his modern flats. Le Corbusier felt that human life was "comforted" by mathematics.
the RX-8 is one of the few cars cars in the world (if the only car) that follows the Golden Section...also referred to the Divine Section (and the Golden Secret by many medieval painters)
the Golden Section is the perfect merge of mathmatics and art (and architecture)...perfection in design is achieved through a strict adherence to the structure of the Golden section.
The Golden Section is also the basis for Fibonacci's sequence.
Historical Examples/Figures of the Golden Section
-The ancient Egyptians-pyramids, tomb design (first use of Golden Section on record)
-Pythagoras, Greek geometer, was especially interested in the golden section, and proved that it was the basis for the proportions of the human figure
-The Parthenon
-Leonardo da Vinci had displayed an ardent interest in the mathematics of art and nature. Same as Pythagoras, he had concluded a close study of the human figure and had shown how all of its parts were interrelated, based on the golden section proportion.
-La Parade (fyi famous abstract painting), painted in distinguishing multi-dotted style of the French neo-impressionist Seurat (1859-1891), contains numerous examples of golden proportions.
-Salvador Dali-The Sacrament of the Last Supper is painted inside a golden rectangle. Golden proportions were used, when positioning the figures. Part of an enormous dodecahedron floats above the table. The polyhedron consists of 12 regular pentagons and has fundamental golden section connections.
-Le Corbusier the 20th Century architect, developed a scale of proportions, which he called Le Modulor. It was based on the structure of a human body, whose height is divided into a golden section commencing at the navel. The same proportion can be seen in his modern flats. Le Corbusier felt that human life was "comforted" by mathematics.
Awesome post!
10-23-2005, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DARKMAZ8
Ike please direct me to the 8 owner with 4000 posts on the scooby board.....maybe he'll have an unbiased opinion.
10-24-2005, 04:04 AM
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A bit Late
Ok I know i am a bit late. But i got my '05 in june. I drove it for awhiole before being sent overseas. I had a hot blonde in a Viper tell me it was hot. I loved this car since it came out and finally was able to buy one went to a small showing in Vegas and Drove through town with all the other ones and ppl's jaws dropped. Ugly? not likely. Are there hotter cars? Well yeah but are they in the same price range? Not that i have found. For the money personally i think it's the hottest car on the road and i can't wait to get back home to it.
10-24-2005, 01:36 PM
#146
Did u Knw Ur Grlz on my..
A hot naked chick on the hood of a WRX still couldn't help how ugly it is. Though it's a hell of a ralley car....... it's meant to be hidden under layers of mud!!!!
10-24-2005, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by juiceRx8
A hot naked chick on the hood of a WRX still couldn't help how ugly it is. Though it's a hell of a ralley car....... it's meant to be hidden under layers of mud!!!!
10-24-2005, 06:58 PM
#148
Originally Posted by RotoRocket
Awesome post!
10-24-2005, 07:32 PM
#149
Originally Posted by BlueEyes
What's so awesome about it. From what I can tell, it has absolutely nothing to do with the 8, other than claiming it follows this rule without any proof.
10-24-2005, 08:09 PM
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This argument is silly because looks are always subjective. Even things that are considered beautiful by most, have critics. I've owned both cars and I loved things about the 8, and loved thing about the Subie. Sit down a room full of car lovers, and your bound to get a million opinions on which is the better looking car. Bottom line, this argument will never end, never! We are all going to have to agree to disagree.