Rx-8 redesign scheduled for 2010
08-16-2006, 12:36 PM
#52
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Maybe we will all be suprised if Mazda just went ahead and released the 30th A.E. RX-7 right under our noses! Who really knows what goes behind the closed door sessions at Mazda? Hell, half the people at Mazda think they know what's going but in reality they are just as cluless as we are. Lets just pray the car gods will shine down on us and give us a redesigned 8 or an RX-7, besides I'm trading my 8 in at the end of next and will buy whatever rotary powered car they have out at the time!
just my .02!
just my .02!
08-16-2006, 12:41 PM
#53
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There is always room for improvement. The RX8 is not an expensive car. If the HP could be tweaked and lighter materials used, aluminum, carbon fiber, light wheels etc. you could have a range topping Mazdaspeed RX-8. Or even better if Mazda could get some serious money for research into Rotary engines they might develop a break through technology or design just as they did when they developed the Renesis.
Just thik of how much money has been put into piston engines. Think of 1/20th of that into a Rotary research.
Just thik of how much money has been put into piston engines. Think of 1/20th of that into a Rotary research.
08-16-2006, 12:41 PM
#54
i pwn therefore i am
So with this news it seems less likely that one of the two new cars debuted at the LA auto show is going to be the Kabura. Maybe it's just going to be the CX-5 and the new 6?
08-16-2006, 01:01 PM
#55
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i think the new 6 may make an appearance at LA- its the only thing being "accidentally" seen in spy photos. The CX-5(new tribute) might also. still hoping for a newer furthur along prototype of the Kabura based vehicle/....
08-16-2006, 01:09 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Design1stCode2nd
There is always room for improvement. The RX8 is not an expensive car. If the HP could be tweaked and lighter materials used, aluminum, carbon fiber, light wheels etc. you could have a range topping Mazdaspeed RX-8. Or even better if Mazda could get some serious money for research into Rotary engines they might develop a break through technology or design just as they did when they developed the Renesis.
Just thik of how much money has been put into piston engines. Think of 1/20th of that into a Rotary research.
Just thik of how much money has been put into piston engines. Think of 1/20th of that into a Rotary research.
Yeah i was thinking that too....if only they put the time and resource into the rotary, it could be really special. The Renesis is a start in the right direction though...
Could this be the reason why Mazda hasn't released a MS version of the 8 yet? Maybe not enough hands on in the R&D departmant....just a thought IMO.
08-16-2006, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DailyDriver2k5
Yeah i was thinking that too....if only they put the time and resource into the rotary, it could be really special. The Renesis is a start in the right direction though...
Could this be the reason why Mazda hasn't released a MS version of the 8 yet? Maybe not enough hands on in the R&D departmant....just a thought IMO.
Could this be the reason why Mazda hasn't released a MS version of the 8 yet? Maybe not enough hands on in the R&D departmant....just a thought IMO.
I'll tell you why......fuel cost. Gas is like 3 times the price it was when Mazda approved the R&D costs of the Renesis 6-8 years ago (remember cars take years of development before they hit production). It makes no sense for Mazda to do anything with the ineffecient rotary in today's market of high $$$ fuel.....which BTW is only getting worse. I think we can all see where Mazda is putting it's R&D $$$ and that is into DI Turbo piston engines. I am not saying Mazda won't continue to offer the rotary in low volume RX_ offerings.......but I don't see them pouring lots of $$$ into rotary R&D anytime soon.
Just my $.02
08-16-2006, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by zoom44
they already showed a DI rotary last year
But I don't think that took much R&D $$$ to do. I am not saying the Renesis won't get some money for small enhancements......I just don't think it's economically feasible to spend millions on technology that will not be competitive in the next decade. The Renesis is the latest rotary in a long line of rotaries that lots of manufacturers have worked on over many decades. The constant with rotaries has always been 'fuel hungry' which is why the technology has been abandoned by just about every other manufacturer. Powerful......absolutely. But always at the expense of fuel efficiency.
I could be wrong......but the guys that write the checks are not rotorheads.....they are realists.
08-16-2006, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by zoom44
not according to the memo
BTW, what were the specs of the DI Renesis? What was the power gain and was there a gain in fuel efficiency? I remember that the Hydrogen Renesis was substantially less powerful than it's gas gulping cousin.....don't remember what the fuel efficiency was though.
08-16-2006, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bascho
BTW, what were the specs of the DI Renesis? What was the power gain and was there a gain in fuel efficiency? I remember that the Hydrogen Renesis was substantially less powerful than it's gas gulping cousin.....don't remember what the fuel efficiency was though.
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_sh...1_mazda_senku/
Not only was the Rotary Direct Injected, but it had a hybrid system with a generator and battery. I think the biggest advancement (maybe not that big) was the idling-stop system, when at idle the generator and battery kicked in... and that saves a lot of gas right there.
I couldn't find anything on power /fuel efficiency. Theoretically, whatever the rotary engine is rated at would still be the peak power, however torque would probably increase... as from stops and low RPM's the electric engine would be producing immediate power, and then higher up in the revs the rotary kicks in.
Last edited by mtrevino; 08-16-2006 at 02:49 PM.
08-16-2006, 03:49 PM
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[QUOTE=DrDiaboloco]
6th gear could be, and should be, taller... Like the OD gear in a Corvette box. Just 3000rpm (instead of 3500-ish rpm) at 75mph would be a good start... The yawning gap between 5th and 6th gears be damned.
My 2004 AT is under 3,200 at 75, and it cruises comfortably at 80 (and ...). The gap to 3d is big, of course, but 3d is good for 80 mph. With the new 6 sp AT, the gap must be less of a problem. I haven't checked whether the 06 model kept the 04 cruising ratio.
Mitch
6th gear could be, and should be, taller... Like the OD gear in a Corvette box. Just 3000rpm (instead of 3500-ish rpm) at 75mph would be a good start... The yawning gap between 5th and 6th gears be damned.
My 2004 AT is under 3,200 at 75, and it cruises comfortably at 80 (and ...). The gap to 3d is big, of course, but 3d is good for 80 mph. With the new 6 sp AT, the gap must be less of a problem. I haven't checked whether the 06 model kept the 04 cruising ratio.
Mitch
08-16-2006, 05:35 PM
#64
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Originally Posted by bascho
But I don't think that took much R&D $$$ to do. I am not saying the Renesis won't get some money for small enhancements......I just don't think it's economically feasible to spend millions on technology that will not be competitive in the next decade. The Renesis is the latest rotary in a long line of rotaries that lots of manufacturers have worked on over many decades. The constant with rotaries has always been 'fuel hungry' which is why the technology has been abandoned by just about every other manufacturer. Powerful......absolutely. But always at the expense of fuel efficiency.
I could be wrong......but the guys that write the checks are not rotorheads.....they are realists.
I could be wrong......but the guys that write the checks are not rotorheads.....they are realists.
IF fuel prices continue to rise, I believe we wont see the rotary continue past the 8's model life.....I live and worked through it before and its happening again..
I really hope I am wrong.
08-16-2006, 05:43 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by bascho
BTW, what were the specs of the DI Renesis? What was the power gain and was there a gain in fuel efficiency? I remember that the Hydrogen Renesis was substantially less powerful than it's gas gulping cousin.....don't remember what the fuel efficiency was though.
The hydro fuel storage tank empties after about 100KM, or 60 miles for memory...
Still very early days...
08-16-2006, 07:44 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by zoom44
direct injection
A new ignition system would help too, but the only promising one that i am aware of that would work for a rotary, laser ignition, is still a ways off.
08-16-2006, 09:00 PM
#68
all aluminum renesis with ultra lean stratified charge direct injection and electrically assisted turbo!!!!
the displacement on demand would be so easy as to shut off the injectors at predetermined cycles (to maintain torque fluctuation balanced) while cruising in ultra lean mode.
easy 30+ mpg
the displacement on demand would be so easy as to shut off the injectors at predetermined cycles (to maintain torque fluctuation balanced) while cruising in ultra lean mode.
easy 30+ mpg
08-16-2006, 09:56 PM
#69
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Originally Posted by Mitch Strickler
My 2004 AT is under 3,200 at 75, and it cruises comfortably at 80 (and ...). The gap to 3d is big, of course, but 3d is good for 80 mph. With the new 6 sp AT, the gap must be less of a problem. I haven't checked whether the 06 model kept the 04 cruising ratio.
08-16-2006, 11:23 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by DrDiaboloco
Well, THAT is a pisser. If the AT can be geared for 3200 at 75, why do we MT drivers need to roll at another 500rpm??
4 AT 6 MT
1st 2.785 3.760
2nd 1.545 2.269
3rd 1.000 1.645
4th 0.694 1.187
5th None 1.000
6th None 0.843
Reverse 2.272 3.564
Final Drive 4.444 4.444
Note 4th gear and 6th gear and you have your answer as to why.
Either change 6th or change the final drive, but mazda's gearing is pretty standard for a close ratio 6 speed.
08-17-2006, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DrDiaboloco
He didn't make that point, not at all... And neither have YOU.
While you are correct that a 2700lb car with this engine would be a hoot, you have not shown us how this car is too heavy for a 230+hp engine. It seems your only "evidence" is that the RX-8 gets no better mileage than the turbo model of 15+ years ago, which doesn't have any relation to the subject.
I will agree with you that 6th gear could be, and should be, taller... Like the OD gear in a Corvette box. Just 3000rpm (instead of 3500-ish rpm) at 75mph would be a good start... The yawning gap between 5th and 6th gears be damned.
Please illuminate we uninformed folks as to how Mazda dropped the ball by giving us too little motor for the RX-8. Is your only argument that the mileage is essentially the same as the FC Turbo? The way I see it, the '8 weighs 20% more than that car yet makes 50% more hp, and it is the RX-8 that's underpowered??
While you are correct that a 2700lb car with this engine would be a hoot, you have not shown us how this car is too heavy for a 230+hp engine. It seems your only "evidence" is that the RX-8 gets no better mileage than the turbo model of 15+ years ago, which doesn't have any relation to the subject.
I will agree with you that 6th gear could be, and should be, taller... Like the OD gear in a Corvette box. Just 3000rpm (instead of 3500-ish rpm) at 75mph would be a good start... The yawning gap between 5th and 6th gears be damned.Please illuminate we uninformed folks as to how Mazda dropped the ball by giving us too little motor for the RX-8. Is your only argument that the mileage is essentially the same as the FC Turbo? The way I see it, the '8 weighs 20% more than that car yet makes 50% more hp, and it is the RX-8 that's underpowered??
after all it is only my opinion
Last edited by rotary crazy; 08-17-2006 at 07:35 AM.
08-17-2006, 09:18 AM
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Correction
[QUOTE=Mitch Strickler]
My 2004 AT is under 3,200 at 75, and it cruises comfortably at 80 (and ...). The gap to 3d is big, of course, but 3d is good for 80 mph.
What was I thinking? 3d is good to 120. 2d, the gear you need for entering freeways and such, tops at 80.
Mitch
My 2004 AT is under 3,200 at 75, and it cruises comfortably at 80 (and ...). The gap to 3d is big, of course, but 3d is good for 80 mph.
What was I thinking? 3d is good to 120. 2d, the gear you need for entering freeways and such, tops at 80.
Mitch
08-17-2006, 09:56 AM
#73
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Originally Posted by Ajax
Note 4th gear and 6th gear and you have your answer as to why.
Either change 6th or change the final drive, but mazda's gearing is pretty standard for a close ratio 6 speed.
Either change 6th or change the final drive, but mazda's gearing is pretty standard for a close ratio 6 speed.
08-17-2006, 10:58 AM
#74
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Originally Posted by neit_jnf
the displacement on demand would be so easy as to shut off the injectors at predetermined cycles (to maintain torque fluctuation balanced) while cruising in ultra lean mode.
what do you do about the air you are pumping through? how do you over come that pumping loss?
08-17-2006, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ASH8
I agree, as we all know Mazda have over the years invested squillions of dollars in on-going development of the rotary, I can not see where any fuel efficiency improvements can be made to the RENESIS without performance sacrifice.
IF fuel prices continue to rise, I believe we wont see the rotary continue past the 8's model life.....I live and worked through it before and its happening again..
I really hope I am wrong.
IF fuel prices continue to rise, I believe we wont see the rotary continue past the 8's model life.....I live and worked through it before and its happening again..
I really hope I am wrong.
What would help is serious money and bright minds working on it. Maybe you would find nothing but them maybe there would be a major breakthrough. You don’t know until you try and if you never take risks how can you find rewards?
I for one appreciate Mazda not selling out to the bean counters and bringing the RX8 to the market. I just hope they can improve on what they have made, not everything needs to get 30+ MPG or have 400hp but I wouldn’t say no to it if they could make it.