RX-8 Sales Figures
#51
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Does anyone actually know how many 2004 models were produced? Also does the sequence part of the VIN actually indicate the sequence of the car as they roll off the line? If so, is that for each region or for the total production?
I bought a used 2004 with a very VERY low sequence number. (less the 100900) I'm curious as to how early of a model this might be.
I bought a used 2004 with a very VERY low sequence number. (less the 100900) I'm curious as to how early of a model this might be.
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Originally Posted by fray
Does anyone actually know how many 2004 models were produced?
In terms of your car, just check the build date noted on the plate on the driver's door frame. I believe production of US cars started in May 2003.
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[QUOTE=PaulieWalnuts]What bugs me is how many people I run into that want to buy an 8 but are totally misinformed by people who don;t have a clue of what they're talking about. A buddy of mine "read somewhere" that the back seats are unusable for adults and won;t fit a baby seat. I corrected that BS and now he wants one. Someone else told me rotaries blow up at 100,000 miles and they would never buy one. I asked where they heard that crap from and corrected that BS. Another guy read that the 8 got crappy gas mileage. Crappy compared to what, a Honda civic, or a G35 and 350Z both of which get similar mileage on average. There are too many mindless bashers and not enough evangelists. QUOTE]
I'm joining this discussion a little late but nevertheless...I tend to agree with this. That being said, I wonder why Mazda hasn't embarked on more of a promotion campaign to counter the BS. I think a good percentage of people who might be in the market for the 8 are not likely car enthusiasts like us who join forums, do the research and distill the facts. They are more likely to be misinformed and therefore easily turned away by the BS.
There is information out there when one looks at the awards the car/engine has won. The success of SpeedSource, the record breaking run in Germany, the Star Mazda series, the return of Mazda to the ALMS with a three Rotor Renesis, the many media based positive reviews, etc., etc. I doubt that all these things would be happening if the 8 was failing in reliability and was not a success. Returning to ALMS in itself tells me Mazda is committed to continuing to develop the Renesis.
Perhaps, as others have said, success and sales don't necessarily go hand in hand when it comes to this car. But I still wonder why Mazda doesn't do more to promote the strengths and successes when there is a lot of unwarranted skepticism out there??? It seems like a no brainer to me---do a more aggressive ad campaign.
I'm joining this discussion a little late but nevertheless...I tend to agree with this. That being said, I wonder why Mazda hasn't embarked on more of a promotion campaign to counter the BS. I think a good percentage of people who might be in the market for the 8 are not likely car enthusiasts like us who join forums, do the research and distill the facts. They are more likely to be misinformed and therefore easily turned away by the BS.
There is information out there when one looks at the awards the car/engine has won. The success of SpeedSource, the record breaking run in Germany, the Star Mazda series, the return of Mazda to the ALMS with a three Rotor Renesis, the many media based positive reviews, etc., etc. I doubt that all these things would be happening if the 8 was failing in reliability and was not a success. Returning to ALMS in itself tells me Mazda is committed to continuing to develop the Renesis.
Perhaps, as others have said, success and sales don't necessarily go hand in hand when it comes to this car. But I still wonder why Mazda doesn't do more to promote the strengths and successes when there is a lot of unwarranted skepticism out there??? It seems like a no brainer to me---do a more aggressive ad campaign.
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Originally Posted by fray
Does anyone actually know how many 2004 models were produced? Also does the sequence part of the VIN actually indicate the sequence of the car as they roll off the line? If so, is that for each region or for the total production?
I bought a used 2004 with a very VERY low sequence number. (less the 100900) I'm curious as to how early of a model this might be.
I bought a used 2004 with a very VERY low sequence number. (less the 100900) I'm curious as to how early of a model this might be.
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Originally Posted by Gomez
As I said earlier....2004 RX-8 production was 51000 (50,813 to be precise). Yes, VIN sequence is relevant to line position....and yes, it is regional.
#56
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Originally Posted by scottmhr1
TV ads are made for the mass appeals car, ie, the 3. The sports type cars like the 8, the z and others don't need as much marketing as they are talked about on forums such as this. If the sales were really much below the goal you would see some more ads for it. Many of the deals I have seen on this site are a bit exagerated by people not listing all the cost, taxes, fees etc. Just wanting others to tell them wow, you did great dude. Would like to see many of them post the bill of sale including all cost and milage of the car etc. If the deals were really that great the KBB values would not be hanging where they are right now.
As I posted earlier, national pricing data on the Edmunds website, which is well-established and fairly reputable, don't support a broader conclusion that prices are plummeting -- to wit: comparing the Edmunds report I had from over a year ago with an updated report shows the current "aggregate" or "TMV" price (minus TTT), is actually ~$128 greater than Feb 2004. I've tried several other zip codes, and they're all fairly similar...
Last edited by SpacerX; 04-05-2005 at 10:05 AM.
#57
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To be fair, Edmunds is no longer listing current data for new MY04 RX8s still available. The dealerships, of course, will be more motivated to move the older inventory and offer super prices...
Of course, my advice to anyone looking for a good RX8 is that they can very likely find a solid 2004 -- and these are pretty much the same cars. The "great deal, great price!" stories we're occasionally hearing are most likely MY04 RX8s
Of course, my advice to anyone looking for a good RX8 is that they can very likely find a solid 2004 -- and these are pretty much the same cars. The "great deal, great price!" stories we're occasionally hearing are most likely MY04 RX8s
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Originally Posted by SpacerX
As I posted earlier, national pricing data on the Edmunds website, which is well-established and fairly reputable, don't support a broader conclusion that prices are plummeting
Are the reports on this forum anomalies?
#59
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Originally Posted by msrecant
Are the reports on this forum anomalies?
I'm certainly not in a position to dispute anyone's (self-reported) good fortune. I just don't see any broader indications of price drops. I think it's altogether VERY likely someone may bay able to get into a MY04 RX8 at a significant discount... but prolly not MY05.
I also have become increasingly convinced that the "forecasts" and "conclusions" of the demise of both the RX8 and the Renesis are overstated, or perhaps uninformed, at best, and childish, at worst.
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Originally Posted by SpacerX
I also have become increasingly convinced that the "forecasts" and "conclusions" of the demise of both the RX8 and the Renesis are overstated
I would expect the current below-target sales to cause exactly what we are seeing. Mazda is NOT rushing out with:
- major RX-8 improvements (key fobs and windshield washer buckets don't count)
- new models (convertible, 2 door coupe)
- spin off vehicles (new RX-7)
Instead we get a model "freshener" like the Shinka which takes minimal investment to put in the showroom.
For now, they appear to be milking the car to improve its lifetime profitability. However, it will be a very good sign if the RX-8 really gets a new automatic with the 238 HP engine, or some other major technological bump, in 2006.
#61
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Originally Posted by msrecant
FYI, the attached JPG shows RX-8 production and sales figures since the 8 was first released. They are compiled from information posted on the Mazda Corporate web site. Note that sales are cars sold by Mazda Corporate to their distributors with "domestic" being within Japan and "export" being international. It does not speak to the inventory on dealer's lots or to trade-in quantities.
What does it all mean ... hell if I know! Some observations FWIW:
1. The effects of the plant fire can be seen in Dec 2004 and Jan/Feb 2005.All but about 550 cars have been sold to distributors world wide. Corporate inventory is pretty much gone.
2. Sales slowed in late 2004 but that is not surprising considering the initial "rush" of car buying for a new model. There is certainly no indication of a radical "fall off".
3. I provided some Miata annual sales figures for comparison. It looks like Miatas took a hit from RX-8 sales. Also note that the 2003 RX-8 totals are for a partial year.
4. Based on the Miata sales history, I would expect the RX-8 production to continue as long as sales stay in the 30,000 to 40,000 per year range. That is unless there is some issue that makes the RX-8 fundamentally less profitable to produce than the Miata (which I can't believe).
I am also on the lookout for annual worldwide figures for 350Zs, S2000s and other cars comparable to the RX-8. I will post an updated chart if I find them.
Thanks to Alessandro for pointing me at the information on the Mazda corporate site.
What does it all mean ... hell if I know! Some observations FWIW:
1. The effects of the plant fire can be seen in Dec 2004 and Jan/Feb 2005.All but about 550 cars have been sold to distributors world wide. Corporate inventory is pretty much gone.
2. Sales slowed in late 2004 but that is not surprising considering the initial "rush" of car buying for a new model. There is certainly no indication of a radical "fall off".
3. I provided some Miata annual sales figures for comparison. It looks like Miatas took a hit from RX-8 sales. Also note that the 2003 RX-8 totals are for a partial year.
4. Based on the Miata sales history, I would expect the RX-8 production to continue as long as sales stay in the 30,000 to 40,000 per year range. That is unless there is some issue that makes the RX-8 fundamentally less profitable to produce than the Miata (which I can't believe).
I am also on the lookout for annual worldwide figures for 350Zs, S2000s and other cars comparable to the RX-8. I will post an updated chart if I find them.
Thanks to Alessandro for pointing me at the information on the Mazda corporate site.
This thread stated exports to the US of the RX-8 to be
42,428 in 2003
41,577 in 2004
60 in 2005
or a total of 84065 units (? Mazda quotes 55,414 in FY2003)
Mazda says they sold
12346 in 2003
23690 in 2004
4917 in 2005 for a total of 40,953 units
See web site for data
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...4012005-1.html
The math says that there are currently 43,112 unsold RX-8’S that were exported to the U.S.
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Originally Posted by sandia8
This thread stated exports to the US of the RX-8 to be
.....
or a total of 84065 units (? Mazda quotes 55,414 in FY2003)
Mazda says they sold
12346 in 2003
23690 in 2004
4917 in 2005 for a total of 40,953 units
See web site for data
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...4012005-1.html
The math says that there are currently 43,112 unsold RX-8’S that were exported to the U.S.
.....
or a total of 84065 units (? Mazda quotes 55,414 in FY2003)
Mazda says they sold
12346 in 2003
23690 in 2004
4917 in 2005 for a total of 40,953 units
See web site for data
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...4012005-1.html
The math says that there are currently 43,112 unsold RX-8’S that were exported to the U.S.
Two considerations.
1. All information in the table from the first post on this thread came directly from the Mazda Corporate Web site http://www.mazda.com/publicity/product/seihane.html. I assume Mazda publishes this as a service to its stockholders and the media. I simply put the numbers in a single table. I would consider these numbers to be very reliable.
2. The EXPORT portion of the table is worldwide export (outside of Japan) and not just the RX-8s exported to the US. Later in this thread people have published US export/sales numbers but one would need to confirm the reliability of those numbers.
#63
Originally Posted by msrecant
Later in this thread people have published US export/sales numbers but one would need to confirm the reliability of those numbers.
Dennis
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Originally Posted by dwynne
The ones I posted came from Mazda press releases and were sales numbers - by model by month and YTD.
I am assuming these are end-customer sales figures, not just sales to North American dealerships. Do either you or sandia8 know that for sure?
What we are still missing are the MNAO import totals so we know how many of the worldwide RX-8s ended up at MNAO. From that we could figure out remaining MNAO stocks.
Last edited by msrecant; 04-13-2005 at 12:18 PM.
#65
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This could clear up some production/sales info
COULD SPELL THE END OF THE RX-8 LINE AS WELL AS CONTINUED PRODUCTION IF THERE ARE 40+K UNITS FLOATING AROUND THE U.S. WITH 1/2 OF 2005 SEASON GONE
For December 2004 and dec 2003 year to date(seems domestic meansU.S.)
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...4012005-1.html
FY2003 production (which clearly shows 55,414 exported to the U.S.)
http://www.mazda.com/publicity/produ...200404sae.html
November 2004 sales
sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20041201/LAW08901122004-1.html
January 2005 sales
biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050201/latu125_1.html
January 2005
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...4012005-1.html
Feb 2005 sales
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...1032005-1.html
March 2005 sales
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...1042005-1.html
COULD SPELL THE END OF THE RX-8 LINE AS WELL AS CONTINUED PRODUCTION IF THERE ARE 40+K UNITS FLOATING AROUND THE U.S. WITH 1/2 OF 2005 SEASON GONE
For December 2004 and dec 2003 year to date(seems domestic meansU.S.)
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...4012005-1.html
FY2003 production (which clearly shows 55,414 exported to the U.S.)
http://www.mazda.com/publicity/produ...200404sae.html
November 2004 sales
sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20041201/LAW08901122004-1.html
January 2005 sales
biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050201/latu125_1.html
January 2005
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...4012005-1.html
Feb 2005 sales
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...1032005-1.html
March 2005 sales
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...1042005-1.html
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Originally Posted by sandia8
For December 2004 and dec 2003 year to date(seems domestic meansU.S.)
However, the "Domestic" I show in my table is from the www.mazda.com site report and is for Japan only. If you look in the Export breakdown at the bottom of the report, North America is clearly listed as an "Export".
Originally Posted by sandia8
FY2003 production (which clearly shows 55,414 exported to the U.S.)
http://www.mazda.com/publicity/produ...200404sae.html
http://www.mazda.com/publicity/produ...200404sae.html
Originally Posted by sandia8
November 2004 sales
sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20041201/LAW08901122004-1.html
January 2005 sales
biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050201/latu125_1.html
January 2005
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...4012005-1.html
Feb 2005 sales
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...1032005-1.html
March 2005 sales
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...1042005-1.html
sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20041201/LAW08901122004-1.html
January 2005 sales
biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050201/latu125_1.html
January 2005
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...4012005-1.html
Feb 2005 sales
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...1032005-1.html
March 2005 sales
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050...1042005-1.html
#67
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Take a look at other cars like the 350Z/G35, WRX, STi, Evo, S2K, when these cars were released it was a couple years before you could expect any sort of deal on them or special financing.
Originally Posted by IkeWRX
I know for fact that with the WRX they could barely make them fast enough and it wasn't til the end of the MY02 that they would deal on them
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Originally Posted by Deslock
I was able to get an 02 WRX for $400 over invoice a lot sooner than that.
#69
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Dealers in my area wouldn't budge much until the 03s started rolling in.
Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Despite what people may think I feel, I really would like to see the RX-8 do well.
#70
from dummy numbers without merit... Lets say 80,000 RX8 were exported. The USA has the buying power to take 50-60% of the worldwide market share. That would come out to 40,000~48,000 in the USA. My business is relational to the study of market shares of cars, so I have to crunch these numbers a bit with; so thats how I came with the dummy number. However for more exclusive cars I've seen USA taking up to 70%. Hope this helps????
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Originally Posted by Deslock
When you wrote "I know for fact that with the WRX they could barely make them fast enough and it wasn't til the end of the MY02 that they would deal on them", was it based on more than just your local dealers? I know many WRX owners who were able to get it close to invoice within a few months of the WRX's release... it didn't take two years. Hell, the MY03s were out ~17 months after the MY02s, so what you wrote ("...it was a couple years before you could expect any sort of deal on them or special financing.") would mean that you couldn't get deals on any MY02 WRXs until well after the MY03s were out, which was obviously not the case.
Some may be getting a different impression from inaccurate generalizations that favor the WRX and make the RX8 look worse of than it really is.
Some may be getting a different impression from inaccurate generalizations that favor the WRX and make the RX8 look worse of than it really is.
#73
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
This was mainly in reference to the fact that those others cars didn't have 4k rebates, special financing for the first MY cars. Even if people were getting WRXs or any of those other cars for around invoice months after release, people were getting the RX-8 for around invoice weeks after release. Also, special financing for the WRX didn't kick in until after the MY03s had been released, all the previous offers from Subaru excluded the WRX. Find me a rebate program where Subaru had to move WRXs, or Nissan 350Zs by giving people anywhere near 4k rebates.
Regardless of all that, let's assume that for the sake of argument that Mazda has been offering more dealers sooner than Subaru and Nissan and Mazda has offered heftier discounts. Still doesn't change the fact that your WRX statements, "it wasn't til the end of the MY02 that they would deal on them..." and "it was a couple years before you could expect any sort of deal on them..." are false.
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Originally Posted by Deslock
I read a thread in which someone said there was a dealership selling RX8s within $500 of invoice weeks after its release. That doesn't make it wide-spread... likewise, I wouldn't be surprised if some dealership, somewhere offered good deals for the WRX weeks after its release.
Regardless of all that, let's assume that for the sake of argument that Mazda has been offering more dealers sooner than Subaru and Nissan and Mazda has offered heftier discounts. Still doesn't change the fact that your WRX statements, "it wasn't til the end of the MY02 that they would deal on them..." and "it was a couple years before you could expect any sort of deal on them..." are false.
Regardless of all that, let's assume that for the sake of argument that Mazda has been offering more dealers sooner than Subaru and Nissan and Mazda has offered heftier discounts. Still doesn't change the fact that your WRX statements, "it wasn't til the end of the MY02 that they would deal on them..." and "it was a couple years before you could expect any sort of deal on them..." are false.
Fine, change it to dealerships in my area weren't offering deals on the WRX until the end of MY02 and I'll admit that i was wrong. What does that change? Subaru expected 10k in sales on the WRX and got 30k +, Mazda was going for 30k in sales for the RX-8 and fell short and is now selling the cars at deep discounts which will lead to the resale values of these cars plumeting... I'm wrong, you're right, and you're still screwed if you want to sell a used RX-8 right now. <shrugs>