Sequential shift manual for Star Mazdas
#1
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Sequential shift manual for Star Mazdas
The new Star Mazda racing cars opened their season in Sebring, Florida recently. They are using the new Renesis rotary engines for power and they have a new type of manual transmission that I heard them call "sequential shift".
What it means is that the traditional H-shaped shift pattern is not used. The shift stick is moved forward and backward in a straight line to go from higher-to-lower gears.
I wonder if that is something that Mazda will push down into its production version of the RX-8 any time soon. I think it would be a very cool change.
The race drivers were all raving about the car's performance and handeling. The pole sitter in this first race would have been good enough to place 12th in starting position of the big Sebring race.
What it means is that the traditional H-shaped shift pattern is not used. The shift stick is moved forward and backward in a straight line to go from higher-to-lower gears.
I wonder if that is something that Mazda will push down into its production version of the RX-8 any time soon. I think it would be a very cool change.
The race drivers were all raving about the car's performance and handeling. The pole sitter in this first race would have been good enough to place 12th in starting position of the big Sebring race.
#2
Sounds nice....but i would never own a car with the sequential gearbox....not my style, the traditional H-pattern cannot be beaten, you do probably get quicker shifts with the SG though?
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The Toyota MR-2, BMW M3, Audi something other and some Maseratis and Ferraris, Swatch Car (can't remember real name) and probably a few others already have sequential gearboxes.
The street versions of sequential gearboxes I have driven either shift slowly or are not smooth enough when putzing around. Plus, I like being able to modulate the clutch. I'm sure in a few years these sequentials for the street will be perfected.
The street versions of sequential gearboxes I have driven either shift slowly or are not smooth enough when putzing around. Plus, I like being able to modulate the clutch. I'm sure in a few years these sequentials for the street will be perfected.
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All those cars you mentioned have computer-controlled "semi-automatic" systems with no clutch pedal. I believe the Star Mazda cars have a racing-style sequential gearbox with a normal driver-operated clutch. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)
#5
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Originally posted by Doug McGill Jr.
Sounds nice....but i would never own a car with the sequential gearbox....not my style, the traditional H-pattern cannot be beaten, you do probably get quicker shifts with the SG though?
Sounds nice....but i would never own a car with the sequential gearbox....not my style, the traditional H-pattern cannot be beaten, you do probably get quicker shifts with the SG though?
Sound wierd and awkward if that is the way they work. Too slow and cumbersome. Or am I wrong?
#6
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Len is closest to right. The racing sequential gearboxes are most like motorcycle gearboxes, and there are several reasons why that design will not be used for production street cars.
The Ferrari F1, BMW SMG, etc. style of semi-manual gearbox that are commonly called 'sequential' gearboxes (like the 'S' in BMW's "SMG") are not sequential gearboxes at all - they are traditional synchromesh gearboxes (just like the versions with a H shift pattern), except the computer controls the clutch and shifting. While they could easily be shifted non-sequentially (ie 5 to 2 downshift), the computers are only programmed to shift up or down 1 gear per paddle click, so in effect they are sequential - but mechanically, they are very different from a racing sequential gearbox.
As I mentioned, you will not see a racing sequential gearbox in a production street car, but you WILL see the SMG style semi-manual gearbox offered in the RX-8 for the 2006 model year.
Regards,
Gordon
The Ferrari F1, BMW SMG, etc. style of semi-manual gearbox that are commonly called 'sequential' gearboxes (like the 'S' in BMW's "SMG") are not sequential gearboxes at all - they are traditional synchromesh gearboxes (just like the versions with a H shift pattern), except the computer controls the clutch and shifting. While they could easily be shifted non-sequentially (ie 5 to 2 downshift), the computers are only programmed to shift up or down 1 gear per paddle click, so in effect they are sequential - but mechanically, they are very different from a racing sequential gearbox.
As I mentioned, you will not see a racing sequential gearbox in a production street car, but you WILL see the SMG style semi-manual gearbox offered in the RX-8 for the 2006 model year.
Regards,
Gordon
#7
The Audi TT V6 has something closer to a "real" sequential--basically, there are two sets of gears stacked concentrically: 1-3-5 and 2-4-6. When you're in first, the computer pre-engages second gear on the other spindle. Hit the paddle, and it switches over while readying third gear on the original spindle. No slushy torque converter, no hesitation. Of course, you can't slip the clutch, and can't dump it at 6k, but overall it's just awesome.
There's a great write-up on it in the last Sport Compact Car, with a lot more technical accuracy and detail than the EXTREMELY rough summary I provided above.
Peace
policy
There's a great write-up on it in the last Sport Compact Car, with a lot more technical accuracy and detail than the EXTREMELY rough summary I provided above.
Peace
policy
#8
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the smg gearbox is a true sequential gearbox. it has 11 settings- 5 'automatic' and 6 manual. 1 is the slowest shift, 5 is the fastest. in these settings it wont let you kill your engine by accidentally going from 5th to 2nd at 130mph. however, in the manual 6 it is a true sequential, and you can blow your engine all you want. the shifts are something like 0.04 sec quick, and if you go from 5th to 2nd at 130mph it will let you...and promptly blow up.
while i havent had the pleasure of driving it yet, my dad (whos been offered track instructor jobs) has taken me out a few times and i can tell that its an awesome piece of equipment. as great as my 8s short-throw feels, id much rather have paddles.
while i havent had the pleasure of driving it yet, my dad (whos been offered track instructor jobs) has taken me out a few times and i can tell that its an awesome piece of equipment. as great as my 8s short-throw feels, id much rather have paddles.
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what about the Paddle shifters, like on some super-cars and F1's, (Enzo, Buggatti Veyron, f1 cars, some rally cars) etc...
The Buggatti Veyron is made to be the fastest car, faster than the Saleen S7(and I think it might be)...with 7 GEARS(!!!)...+220mph....crazy fast....
here's my show:
The Buggatti Veyron is made to be the fastest car, faster than the Saleen S7(and I think it might be)...with 7 GEARS(!!!)...+220mph....crazy fast....
here's my show:
Last edited by OdDbaLL0789; 04-05-2004 at 07:21 PM.
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I think a true manual sequential shift gearbox (w/ clutch) would be awesome in a car! Shifting multiple gears is simply a matter of multiple clicks. If you've ever ridden a motorcycle you know what it's like already. Plus computer assited clutching and push button shifting once rolling could be an added benefit for those times when you're stuck in traffic and don't feel like shifting.
It would seem to me that a true sequential shifting gearbox would be simpler and more economical than the traditional "H" gearbox by eliminating the need to allow shifting from one gear into any other gear.
It would seem to me that a true sequential shifting gearbox would be simpler and more economical than the traditional "H" gearbox by eliminating the need to allow shifting from one gear into any other gear.
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Originally posted by policyvote
The Audi TT V6 has something closer to a "real" sequential--basically, there are two sets of gears stacked concentrically: 1-3-5 and 2-4-6. When you're in first, the computer pre-engages second gear on the other spindle. Hit the paddle, and it switches over while readying third gear on the original spindle. No slushy torque converter, no hesitation. Of course, you can't slip the clutch, and can't dump it at 6k, but overall it's just awesome.
There's a great write-up on it in the last Sport Compact Car, with a lot more technical accuracy and detail than the EXTREMELY rough summary I provided above.
Peace
policy
The Audi TT V6 has something closer to a "real" sequential--basically, there are two sets of gears stacked concentrically: 1-3-5 and 2-4-6. When you're in first, the computer pre-engages second gear on the other spindle. Hit the paddle, and it switches over while readying third gear on the original spindle. No slushy torque converter, no hesitation. Of course, you can't slip the clutch, and can't dump it at 6k, but overall it's just awesome.
There's a great write-up on it in the last Sport Compact Car, with a lot more technical accuracy and detail than the EXTREMELY rough summary I provided above.
Peace
policy
Developed by the company I work for.
#17
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The BMW and Ferrari sequential gearboxes are the best. BMW has gearshift changes in 80 milliseconds, while the Ferrari is around 70 milliseconds. That can beat most people on their best day. When people were referring to "slow shifts", there are 10 differant shift styles in the BWM SMG II, and 5 in the Ferrari F1 setup. Ranging from lazy (non-jerky), to lightning quick. You can't compaire these two setups to the Toyota MR2's, that is just a lame and slow interpretation of SMG.
Troy J.
Troy J.
#18
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Originally posted by JeupRX-8
The BMW and Ferrari sequential gearboxes are the best.
The BMW and Ferrari sequential gearboxes are the best.
Regards,
Gordon
#20
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Originally posted by zyran
My question is - Can we fit those sequential gearboxes in our RX-8s? In other words switch the MT/AT for the SMG as an Aftermarket modification?
My question is - Can we fit those sequential gearboxes in our RX-8s? In other words switch the MT/AT for the SMG as an Aftermarket modification?
Regards,
Gordon
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