Video of our new #31 car slated for World Challenge this year. List of mods:

-Professionally built and completely stock Renesis
-Bosch engine management
-Custom Header followed by 3" exhaust with two in-line low restriction mufflers
-2009 Trans
-5.12 Ring and Pin
-MazdaSpeed/AEM Intake
-Pump Gas
-8,500 ignition soft cut, 8,700 hard cut
-215+ hp, 150 ft. lbs. + on DynoJet 4th gear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egh4GxMvnME

Personal note: Some people believe you need to run your car to 9,000 rpm or more. In reality the power drops off North of 8,700-8,800. Therefore, there is NO reason to ever rev your car in this range. In fact, you will find in some stock motors that the rotors will wobble and the tips near the corner seals will touch/ride/hit the irons. Stay away from 8,800+

Happy rotoring and come join us this year at a World Challenge Event.

WC Schedule: http://www.meyer-motorsports.com/Race_Schedule.html

 

good result - thanks for shareing ...

 

awesome numbers!

 

really?

i've always shifted at 9.1 ish :/ yikes

how bad? i mean wouldn't do it on a normal car, but its sooooooooooo smooooth.

 

But what if you love that beeping noise when you redline?

 

It beeps at 8500. The tach isn't the most accurate thing in the world.

 

Nice. Sounds mean.

I find it interesting that you run a MS/AEM intake. General consenus is that intakes dont make much/if any power. However, if youre running one I'd assume its because youve found it does make power.

 

Correct assumption. We have intakes that make 220+ hp but make lower torque over a smaller power band than our MS/AEM. I've made some really wild custom intakes and learned alot from what DIDN'T work. Intakes have a tuned quality to them that has something to do with their length. Something about resonance which is over my head. We made an experiment last year or so using a very long intake with a nice curved air horn or bell on the end, measured power on the dyno and then cut off 2" and repeated the process over and over again until we have a curve of sorts. Started with a length that was about a foot in front of the front bumper just to see what it would do (****). Keep in mind that I am looking for OVERALL power and not peak power so you have to look at the area under the curve. We also ran a nice smooth intake bell right off the throttle body to see what that would do. THE biggest influence is how air ENTERS the intake (bet some of you didn't know that did you?) Have you ever seen a velocity stack before? Do you know why they are shaped like that? Guess why?

We have tested intakes that make lower peak hp but with more torque over a wider rpm range. The MS/AEM might be one of them however we also mated these intakes to various header designs and come up with a package where we've maximized our power over the rpm range we use. So you have to look at the entire system. We also moved around the various SSV/APV//VDI valves to see what happens to the curve (hint hint).

Only when you compare or overlay the dyno curves of the differing intakes (or exhaust or whatever your testing) can you see which is better here and there. It takes some effort to figure out which system produces the most power OVERALL. Spend some time planning your dyno testing game plan prior to showing up and throwing up and you can learn some neat stuff. Keep in mind you need to know what rpm range your car operates at.

For example, how many of you know the rpm drop when shifting from 3 to 4th gear? Here's another one-----are the rpm drops when shifting from any gear to the next the same? Where does this rpm drop fall on your dyno curve. I won't share what we've learned because our motor tune/exhaust/trans/rear gear ratio is different than you guys on this forum but it is a wonderful exercise the next time you play on the dyno. You pay for the dyno time----use it as you see fit. All you need to do is pick an rpm shift point, apply WOT throttle and shift to the next gear. Naturally you record this entire run on the dyno and you'll have the data. Takes 20 seconds or so and also is a great way to warm up your drivetrain (once its partially warmed up).

Some of you might have read my other dyno posts I've made and this is a good post to retouch on one point: A warmed up drive train will make about 2-3 hp more than a car that has been sitting in the parking lot for an hour waiting its turn on the dyno. You didn't see the 10 minutes of video I cut out/edited prior to those 3 pulls because they were for generating heat in the drive train. Prior to those 10 minutes we put the car on the dyno, put her in gear and let it roll for a bit. Then we romp on it a little bit and retighten the straps. Repeat process. Safety first always. During the entire time the guys are looking at and under the car for any thing that raises a red flag (as I offer in the video). Since this was this cars first time it saw a high reving and high wheel speed event (we've yet to have it on the track or drive it around the block which pisses off the neighbors as you can imagine/cops come 10 minutes afterwards and we hide it back in the shop) we check things like: Wheel speeds (readable via the OB port), diff temp sensor, throttle position (also readable through the stock system), water and oil temps naturally, oil pressure, alarms, basically all the entire system. Note: the stock RX8 system will read 203/204 mph if one of the ABS sensors is disconected or has failed. This will lead to huge OMFG braking issues if your hauling the mail and jump on the brakes. I have been in or witnessed 3 big crashes in a stock RX8 that had ABS sensor failure/sensor was disconnected. For this reason each time we build a car I replace these 2-3 foot lines.

Happy rotoring.

 

What do you think causes those ABS Sensor failures?

 

heh - been there ,done that - shat my pants LOL

 

Eric,

When will see pics of the new car and all of it's goodies on your website? I learn a TON just studying your pictures.

 

Car goes on track in a flat black plain jane paint scheme this Saturday. Will have a bunch of pics before, during and after that time. Interior pics in a few days. She is our prettiest car thus far. Thanks for asking and I'll post them as soon as the car is ready for track.

-E

 

what apex seals do you use ?

 

Eric,

Thanks for your indepth explanation of how you chose your intake.

One last follow up question if you dont mind.

Based on your testing would you recommend a MS/AEM intake for a street driven 8, or just stick with the stock airbox?

 

We have and are using both. Our engine builder has shown me how power loss generally comes from compression loss obtained in both the apex seal and the rotor housing apex seal surface area. This is from wear. Both of these together will allow compression loss and he will reuse the rotor housings twice and then dump them. He will use the ceramic seals for up to 6 engine refreshes. You get into one of those things that are like "do I pay more right now for the expensive ceramics or just buy steel and replace them more often?". We are budgeting a season per motor at about $3K to rebuild it. Much of the work performed for the first build stays with us for the life of the engine. This includes extensive balancing and starting with all new irons, roter housings---basically all new parts. Our oil galleys are also enlarged to allow for more oil flow inside the engine and the oil p regulator upgraded/increased. ZERO port work is performed. I think our first builds ran about $7K per motor----but you do it right from the get go. Did that answer your question?

 

Thats a good question Cam. I like the MS/AEM for a couple of reasons.

-We found it to make a little more torque
-It frees up a fair amount of space in the engine bay because that dern stock airbox is sooo big. There is a lot of air that tries (unsuccessfully) to flow through the radiator and there is a ton of stuff in the stock engine bay that doesn't help air flow. The AEM has a smaller footprint. You can easily feel this when your radiator fans kick on. Stick your hand near the top of the motor and you can feel the air blowing off the fans. Try this with the stock setup and you'll feel much less air flow.

I found a pony or two when we modified the AEM intake. Working upstream from the throttle body to the front of the car we still have the 90 degree bend downward but not the second bend. I cut that off. Ours just has one single 90 degree bend. Air doesn't like to turn and these motors are all about air VELOCITY way more than air VOLUME.

If you do go down the AEM route or for those of you that have the multipiece MS/AEM make sure you do this: get a flashlight and reassemble your intake starting at the throttle body. Each time you put on one of those pieces make sure the metal tubes align perfectly. Your goal is to prevent any steps, bends, ledges or anything that could make the air flow turbulent. Take your time and move those dudes around so they fit perfect. I found a metal snip can be useful for this. I have found a 5 hp difference of a shitty intake reassembly (that guy that no longer works for me) and when I do it. Make those pieces align nicely on THE INSIDE. Screw the outside right---air flows inside the intake, not the outside.

Also, very important---use a paper filter. Use a paper filter. Use a paper filter. The K&N metal style stuff does not filter nearly as well. Get this--the SpeedSource Rolex GT 3 rotor cars use--------------the stock RX-8 big square paper filter. And they do this because it's a better FILTER. Metal type makes 1 more hp David Haskill offers (speedsource team engineer). PAPER FILTER.

Happy rotoring.

 

Thanks for answering my apex Q

Re The filter - is good filtration really that important on an engine that is regularly rebuilt anyway ?

 

what paper filters are available for the aem intake? the filter that comes with it is fabric.

 

The stock Mazda or AEM filter element has been the only one I've ever seen.

Filter and engine rebuild frequency:

At the 2008 Daytona "Roar before the 24" test weekend in early January for the Grand-Am Koni Challenge Series (now called the Grand-Am Continental Sports Car Challenge Series we had an interesting experience. Some of you might already now. Continental Tire is now the series sponsor.

Anyway, we had both good and bad experiences. The good: for a while we had fastest lap time on Sunday--very cool and confidence building. The bad: When we returned back to Indy we would a little bit of sludge when we changed the oil. Keep in mind that we change the oil after each event so at most we have well under 12 hours of engine run time on the motor. We also use a stock oil filter and you pretty much never see anything in it. Well did we learn something.

I took the oil filter and the sludge to our engine builder and also called SpeedSoruce and talk to David Haskill. David is a really smart dude, builds and tests the famous 3 rotor Rolex GT cars and is also a driver (see his name on this year's 24 hour event roster). The first thing David asked me after describing the sludge is this: "what kind of air filter are you using?". He tells me the sludge is sand and the motor is shot. He says once the sand enters the induction system it is trapped and wreeks havoc. Sure enough when we pulled off the oil pan it was rather full of sand---a fair amount of sand, not just a smidge. I could not believe it. This was when we ran the MS Intake with only 1 90 degree bend with an exposed K&N filter at the bottom. When viewed from the front

http://gallery.me.com/meyermotorspor...&bgcolor=black

You'll see we use the MazdaSpeed nose with the top black trim piece removed. The #16 car had the MS modified intake with a K&N on it. This was exposed right in the middle of the mesh grill on the driver's side. The #30 car (the car I drove at this event) had a different intake that made more peak power but less torque. The #16 was the sand engine. The #30 was fine/normal/regular.

We switched to the paper element at the suggestion of our engine builder and SpeedSource. Problem solved. Note: SpeedSource offered that they experienced this a long time ago in their rotary (not sure if this was the 2 or 3 rotor). Probably the 2 rotor cars like ours (on this forum). The 3 rotor air filter (which is a stock RX-8 paper element) is just under the back of the hood cowling near the wiper tray.

We still use the same intake (cut with only one 90 degree bend) but run the stock paper filter and have an aluminum shield on the front of it to block direct debris/lower the chance of direct debris ingestion. Haven't had the problem since (when driving down South in sandy tracks or other). Hope that helps.

And that intake setup makes the most torque we've even seen on the dyno

 

wow - great stuff Eric .
If you had sand in the oil pan of the #16 car and no sand in the #30 car I would expect that you found lots of sand in the filter of both cars -perhaps less in the #16. Was that the case ?

 

thanks for the pictures eric!

i was looking through, and see what you were saying about #16, but where exactly is the filter on car #30? was looking, but only saw the radiator

 

The air filter on the 16 was (a) exposed and right down low in the line of fire of debris and (b) a poor filter choice for the sandy environment. This air filter had some sand in it but mostly the sand had passed the filter, entered the engine with some ending up in the oil pan. Interstingly enough where the air flow enters the intake and then the lower alum. intake and then into the engine there was sand blast or bead blast marks on the alum rotor housing.

The 30 air pickup (above and in front of the rad) was (a) less in the line of fire and (b) followed by a solid paper air filter. That air filter was full of sand/was doing its job filtering debris.

 

super bump, i know, but it serves two fold:

1. It is the first place I found out about the AEM mod and I know over time some people asked me how to do it.

2. It is so I can ask this question and maybe Mr.Meyer can chime in: You probably dont use them since the car is primarily used for higher RPM track duty, but I was wondering if you had any chance to test the use of one less MAF straightener with the single bend? I know that the OEM system uses two straighteners, and i believe it was mostly due to the complexity of the system vs the racingbeat which only uses one. The other day I tested running just one screen, and didn't seem to have any issues, but to be honest I didn't get a chance to monitor maf voltages to see if there was any jitter in the readings.