why guys drive Harleys
03-19-2006, 12:29 PM
#26
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Bikes are dangerous. Let's just get that out of the way.
I have a big piece of titanium in my wrist from coming off a bike. It was on a track, so no stupid street racing or anything, but it cost me 50% of the mobility in my right hand for the rest of my life. All I did was mis-judge a corner by a few MPH. It would have been totally recoverable in a car.
That's the thing on bikes- you have to be "on" all the time. In reality, driving a car is a whole bunch of little accidents that are never serious. In a car, you can screw up and the car doesn't fall over. If you drive over 4 feet of black ice in a car, you're probably ok. If you mis-judge a turn and get a wheel or two off in the dirt, you're probably ok. If you get on the power too much in a corner, you're probably ok. If you slam on the brakes and let the ABS bring you to a stop, you're probably ok. If someone turning left doesn't see you and you t-bone them, you're probably ok.
All of these things on a bike have a really good chance of dumping or killing you.
That being said, almost any bike and out-accelerate any production car and they stop even better. So you could argue that an accident is less likely, but let me tell you, the first time you actually lock up the front tire on a bike, you either tell yourself "holy crap, I'll never brake that hard again" or, more likely, you limp off to the side of the street and wonder how many parts on the bike just broke.
I say all of this because you should only ride a bike if it's really worth it to you. For me, it is. Riding a bike is absolutley incredible. I actually feel more comfortable on a bike, and it's clearly a more exciting experience. I don't find that the risks outweigh the rewards, but many people might. My in-laws ride, and they are some of the most risk-adverse people I know. Riding a bike is so much fun that they still decide to ride, and my MIL has been hit by a car on a bike before.
I'm a handling snob, which is why I bought the RX-8, and which is why I ride a 600cc sportbike, which are known as the best handling bikes out there. On a sunny day, I'll take the bike 75% of the time, but I live in Seattle where those days can be semi-rare, which tilts that equasion. On really great summer weeks, I ride the bike about half the time and drive the other half. If it's been miserable for a week or two, I'll ride the bike in 35 degree rain. I need my fix. My drive is only 7 miles and about 15 minutes, but I'll still spend the 5 minutes getting suited up each way. There's something zen-like about getting all ready for a ride.
If you're interested in a bike, do two things: Price out full gear and decide if you're willing to buy it and use it. I ride every time in full leather overpants, full leather jacket, leather gloves, and of course a helmet. Denim isn't anything to pavement, so don't think jeans will save you if you go down. When I broke my wrist, I had on full leathers. Not a scratch on me, even though I came off at 80 MPH. Also know in advance that helmets are one time use devices. If you crash or even drop the helmet, you need to replace it. Due to equipment like this, lots of times riding a bike is more $$ per mile than a car, but it enhances the saftey factor quite a bit.
Second, take your local MSF (Motorcycle Saftey Foundation) class. These classes provide you with a 250cc bike and spend two days teaching you the skills you need to ride in a safe, controlled environment. In most states, they give you your motorcycle endorsement if you pass. Take this first, decide if riding is for you, and then start looking at bikes. When I took my MSF class, many of the people there had been riding illegally (no license) for a long time, and none of them could pass the course without both of those days of training. They really do teach you a lot, and it's a cheap way to figure out if you like it and are comfortable on a bike.
A final note: if you're into sportbikes, please don't buy somthing high HP right off the bat. No matter how good their judgment, you wouldn't teach someone how to drive in a Viper, and you shouldn't learn on something that has a HP/weight ratio of 1:3. Buy something cheap like a Ninja 250 ($2999 new, $1700 used, 0-60 in under 5 seconds) and learn on that. Resale on bikes is pretty good so the cost is minimal. This is less of an issue with bigger bikes and cruisers, but some of the fastest straight-line bikes out there today are the BMW sport-touring bikes, so starting slow is always a good idea.
Finally: If you're wanted a bike for years, do it. I waited until I was 27 before I bought a bike because I didn't have the judgment before that to handle a supersport bike, which is all I was ever interested in. I'm glad I waited, I'm also glad that I didn't wait longer. It's an amazing hobby. The first day I ever rode into work, I told my co-workers "that's one hell of a way to get to work." Three years later, I still think that every morning when I get off the bike.
I have a big piece of titanium in my wrist from coming off a bike. It was on a track, so no stupid street racing or anything, but it cost me 50% of the mobility in my right hand for the rest of my life. All I did was mis-judge a corner by a few MPH. It would have been totally recoverable in a car.
That's the thing on bikes- you have to be "on" all the time. In reality, driving a car is a whole bunch of little accidents that are never serious. In a car, you can screw up and the car doesn't fall over. If you drive over 4 feet of black ice in a car, you're probably ok. If you mis-judge a turn and get a wheel or two off in the dirt, you're probably ok. If you get on the power too much in a corner, you're probably ok. If you slam on the brakes and let the ABS bring you to a stop, you're probably ok. If someone turning left doesn't see you and you t-bone them, you're probably ok.
All of these things on a bike have a really good chance of dumping or killing you.
That being said, almost any bike and out-accelerate any production car and they stop even better. So you could argue that an accident is less likely, but let me tell you, the first time you actually lock up the front tire on a bike, you either tell yourself "holy crap, I'll never brake that hard again" or, more likely, you limp off to the side of the street and wonder how many parts on the bike just broke.
I say all of this because you should only ride a bike if it's really worth it to you. For me, it is. Riding a bike is absolutley incredible. I actually feel more comfortable on a bike, and it's clearly a more exciting experience. I don't find that the risks outweigh the rewards, but many people might. My in-laws ride, and they are some of the most risk-adverse people I know. Riding a bike is so much fun that they still decide to ride, and my MIL has been hit by a car on a bike before.
I'm a handling snob, which is why I bought the RX-8, and which is why I ride a 600cc sportbike, which are known as the best handling bikes out there. On a sunny day, I'll take the bike 75% of the time, but I live in Seattle where those days can be semi-rare, which tilts that equasion. On really great summer weeks, I ride the bike about half the time and drive the other half. If it's been miserable for a week or two, I'll ride the bike in 35 degree rain. I need my fix. My drive is only 7 miles and about 15 minutes, but I'll still spend the 5 minutes getting suited up each way. There's something zen-like about getting all ready for a ride.
If you're interested in a bike, do two things: Price out full gear and decide if you're willing to buy it and use it. I ride every time in full leather overpants, full leather jacket, leather gloves, and of course a helmet. Denim isn't anything to pavement, so don't think jeans will save you if you go down. When I broke my wrist, I had on full leathers. Not a scratch on me, even though I came off at 80 MPH. Also know in advance that helmets are one time use devices. If you crash or even drop the helmet, you need to replace it. Due to equipment like this, lots of times riding a bike is more $$ per mile than a car, but it enhances the saftey factor quite a bit.
Second, take your local MSF (Motorcycle Saftey Foundation) class. These classes provide you with a 250cc bike and spend two days teaching you the skills you need to ride in a safe, controlled environment. In most states, they give you your motorcycle endorsement if you pass. Take this first, decide if riding is for you, and then start looking at bikes. When I took my MSF class, many of the people there had been riding illegally (no license) for a long time, and none of them could pass the course without both of those days of training. They really do teach you a lot, and it's a cheap way to figure out if you like it and are comfortable on a bike.
A final note: if you're into sportbikes, please don't buy somthing high HP right off the bat. No matter how good their judgment, you wouldn't teach someone how to drive in a Viper, and you shouldn't learn on something that has a HP/weight ratio of 1:3. Buy something cheap like a Ninja 250 ($2999 new, $1700 used, 0-60 in under 5 seconds) and learn on that. Resale on bikes is pretty good so the cost is minimal. This is less of an issue with bigger bikes and cruisers, but some of the fastest straight-line bikes out there today are the BMW sport-touring bikes, so starting slow is always a good idea.
Finally: If you're wanted a bike for years, do it. I waited until I was 27 before I bought a bike because I didn't have the judgment before that to handle a supersport bike, which is all I was ever interested in. I'm glad I waited, I'm also glad that I didn't wait longer. It's an amazing hobby. The first day I ever rode into work, I told my co-workers "that's one hell of a way to get to work." Three years later, I still think that every morning when I get off the bike.
Last edited by dsmdriver; 03-19-2006 at 12:41 PM.
03-19-2006, 12:56 PM
#27
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Wow that is a great answer. I appreciate it. Maybe, I'll take some time before I mod the 8 to take training course to see if I like it, and if so put the money into that instead of my car.
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03-19-2006, 03:03 PM
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You guys are tough. Never thought I would hear this type of talk coming from owners of RX-8s. Guess when I get an 8, I have to sell my Harley. Believe it or not, this forum is one of the things that sold me on a 8. You guys (8 owners) seem to have the camaraderie that I have enjoyed owning a Harley & a Wrangler. Granted lots of times Harley riders don't wave to sport bikes, but believe me it happens the other way too. I even find myself upset when a fellow Wrangler driver doesn't wave back to me because I actually feel bad when I realized that I missed waving to another. All in all, most bikers respect all other bikers, like most RX-8 owners respect other sports car drivers. The ones that don't probably have never ridden the other style bike or car anyway. Every make & model has its +s & -s in cars & motorcycles and no one is right for all. You will find, however, that most Harley riders treat thier bikes like most 8 drivers treat their cars. (Only run the best gas & oil, wax every weekend, park away from everyone else, you know the rest) Until I get my 8, Peace!!
03-19-2006, 03:50 PM
#29
Klingon Grammarian
I was all set to answer dmorales' basic motorcycling questions, but dsmdriver hit it right on and made pretty much every point I wanted to make. So let me just emphasize a few things.
1) Yes, motorcycling is more dangerous than driving a car. But it is risk which can be managed, if you treat it responsibly and intelligently. And keep in mind, taking up motorcycling doesn't necessarily mean 80mph wipe-outs on the track, so don't let that particular story scare you *too* much. But certainly regular street riding still comes with a lot of risk, so you have to take it very seriously, and, as he said, be "on" all the time.
2) A big part of that is proper gear. From time to time you'll see idiots out on the road on a motorcycle wearing t-shirt, shorts, bare hands, and sneakers. Apparently they're not *planning* on going down that day. Don't let that be you. One point dsmdriver did NOT make: "helmet" isn't good enough. Make sure it's a GOOD helmet. I strongly recommend full-face (that's all I'll wear), but certainly nothing less than 3-quarter. Wearing one of those ridiculous barely-legal beanie helmets is just foolishness. All this goes triple for the new rider!
3) Having said all that, is it worth it? BIG TIME. I love my 8, but on a nice day, I'll pick the motorcycle over the car almost every time. There's no comparison. And note: I do NOT ride a super-duper ultra-fast sport bike. My Virago is fast among cruisers, but it is no sport bike. But it still blows away cars. Do not feel like only the hottest sport bike will provide the joy (although you might end up there eventually). There's a lot of different kinds of motorcycle and motorcycling, find what you like. But I'll tell you, I didn't start riding until I was in my mid 30's, and my strongest emotion, once I got into it, was a deep regret that I hadn't started 10 years earlier.
4) Yes, step 1 is taking an MSF course. Step two is getting yourself a learner bike. What dsmdriver said about sportbikes applies to all bikes, even cruisers: you don't want to get anything too fast or powerful to start with. What's more, you don't want to get anything too fancy or expensive to start with, because the likelihood is that you WILL put the thing down, just on little, stupid, beginner things, while you're learning. Who wants to have to worry about screwing up shiny new chrome and paint just over a minor beginner screw-up? I recommend getting something used and smallish, just to beat up on while you're learning. For a used bike, I would recommend something Japanese, for the reliability; especially Honda. Look to spend, oh, maybe something in the $1-2k range, not much more. And then when you're ready to step up to something more "real", you'll be in a better position to know what you really want in a "real" bike. And if you bought your learner bike used, it will already have done most of its depreciation, so you'll be able to sell it for most of what you put into it.
1) Yes, motorcycling is more dangerous than driving a car. But it is risk which can be managed, if you treat it responsibly and intelligently. And keep in mind, taking up motorcycling doesn't necessarily mean 80mph wipe-outs on the track, so don't let that particular story scare you *too* much. But certainly regular street riding still comes with a lot of risk, so you have to take it very seriously, and, as he said, be "on" all the time.
2) A big part of that is proper gear. From time to time you'll see idiots out on the road on a motorcycle wearing t-shirt, shorts, bare hands, and sneakers. Apparently they're not *planning* on going down that day. Don't let that be you. One point dsmdriver did NOT make: "helmet" isn't good enough. Make sure it's a GOOD helmet. I strongly recommend full-face (that's all I'll wear), but certainly nothing less than 3-quarter. Wearing one of those ridiculous barely-legal beanie helmets is just foolishness. All this goes triple for the new rider!
3) Having said all that, is it worth it? BIG TIME. I love my 8, but on a nice day, I'll pick the motorcycle over the car almost every time. There's no comparison. And note: I do NOT ride a super-duper ultra-fast sport bike. My Virago is fast among cruisers, but it is no sport bike. But it still blows away cars. Do not feel like only the hottest sport bike will provide the joy (although you might end up there eventually). There's a lot of different kinds of motorcycle and motorcycling, find what you like. But I'll tell you, I didn't start riding until I was in my mid 30's, and my strongest emotion, once I got into it, was a deep regret that I hadn't started 10 years earlier.
4) Yes, step 1 is taking an MSF course. Step two is getting yourself a learner bike. What dsmdriver said about sportbikes applies to all bikes, even cruisers: you don't want to get anything too fast or powerful to start with. What's more, you don't want to get anything too fancy or expensive to start with, because the likelihood is that you WILL put the thing down, just on little, stupid, beginner things, while you're learning. Who wants to have to worry about screwing up shiny new chrome and paint just over a minor beginner screw-up? I recommend getting something used and smallish, just to beat up on while you're learning. For a used bike, I would recommend something Japanese, for the reliability; especially Honda. Look to spend, oh, maybe something in the $1-2k range, not much more. And then when you're ready to step up to something more "real", you'll be in a better position to know what you really want in a "real" bike. And if you bought your learner bike used, it will already have done most of its depreciation, so you'll be able to sell it for most of what you put into it.
03-19-2006, 03:59 PM
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You have to admit that Harleys are the most image-centric bikes out there. They don't have much else going for them- you can get faster, quieter, more reliable bikes for less money. This would all be fine if their riders didn't also have a reputation for being so hostile to other riders. I don't know a single sportbike rider that actively doesn't wave at another rider based on their bike. Sure, we all miss seeing another rider sometimes or we're busy, but that has nothing to do with the other bike type.
I think all bikes are great. I think someone that decides to buy a Harley to buy into the isolationist club that surrounds them isn't so great, and I don't know why someone would decide on a Harley unless they wanted into that club. When more Harley riders start waving back maybe I'll change my mind.
Then again, maybe everyone I see on a Harley is a newbie Sunday rider and too terrified of the beast beneath them to notice anything else
Finally I was serious- the 8 is all about refinement and phenomenal handling. The Harley is completely opposite of that. What is it that you think you would enjoy about an 8 and what is it that you like about the Harley?
I think all bikes are great. I think someone that decides to buy a Harley to buy into the isolationist club that surrounds them isn't so great, and I don't know why someone would decide on a Harley unless they wanted into that club. When more Harley riders start waving back maybe I'll change my mind.
Then again, maybe everyone I see on a Harley is a newbie Sunday rider and too terrified of the beast beneath them to notice anything else
Finally I was serious- the 8 is all about refinement and phenomenal handling. The Harley is completely opposite of that. What is it that you think you would enjoy about an 8 and what is it that you like about the Harley?
03-19-2006, 04:05 PM
#32
Klingon Grammarian
Originally Posted by jstkilntim
You guys are tough. Never thought I would hear this type of talk coming from owners of RX-8s. Guess when I get an 8, I have to sell my Harley. Believe it or not, this forum is one of the things that sold me on a 8. You guys (8 owners) seem to have the camaraderie that I have enjoyed owning a Harley & a Wrangler. Granted lots of times Harley riders don't wave to sport bikes, but believe me it happens the other way too. I even find myself upset when a fellow Wrangler driver doesn't wave back to me because I actually feel bad when I realized that I missed waving to another. All in all, most bikers respect all other bikers, like most RX-8 owners respect other sports car drivers. The ones that don't probably have never ridden the other style bike or car anyway. Every make & model has its +s & -s in cars & motorcycles and no one is right for all. You will find, however, that most Harley riders treat thier bikes like most 8 drivers treat their cars. (Only run the best gas & oil, wax every weekend, park away from everyone else, you know the rest) Until I get my 8, Peace!!
While I think Harley's are vastly overrated, certainly plenty of nice people ride them. Indeed, it was a devout Harley-ist who gave me my first ride on a motorcycle, the one that got me hooked. So I'm eternally indebted to her, even though she'd be deeply ashamed if she knew I ride a Yamaha.
03-19-2006, 04:08 PM
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Good points Krankor!
My only point with the track wipe-out was that I only went a few MPH too fast into a corner on my bike. In a car, I could have driven it into the run-out area. On a bike, going off track often means falling down. Every mistake is amplified on a bike. Theoretically on the street you should never be able to go down at 80 MPH, but streets have curbs too. Curbs freak me out.
Great point on the helmet too- I can't imagine anything but full face myself either. I rode in the hail last week (weather got bad while I was at work), and it was pounding the face shield...
I ride my wife's Ninja 250 all the time, even when my bike is running fine. It's slower than my bike, but it's lighter too, and has a totally unique feel. All bikes are great fun, and each is different. I can understand someone prefering a cruiser or sport-touring bike depending on what they want out of the bike. In the end, all bikes are fast and fun. Just treat them with respect and do your best to limit the risk.
My only point with the track wipe-out was that I only went a few MPH too fast into a corner on my bike. In a car, I could have driven it into the run-out area. On a bike, going off track often means falling down. Every mistake is amplified on a bike. Theoretically on the street you should never be able to go down at 80 MPH, but streets have curbs too. Curbs freak me out.
Great point on the helmet too- I can't imagine anything but full face myself either. I rode in the hail last week (weather got bad while I was at work), and it was pounding the face shield...
I ride my wife's Ninja 250 all the time, even when my bike is running fine. It's slower than my bike, but it's lighter too, and has a totally unique feel. All bikes are great fun, and each is different. I can understand someone prefering a cruiser or sport-touring bike depending on what they want out of the bike. In the end, all bikes are fast and fun. Just treat them with respect and do your best to limit the risk.
03-19-2006, 09:01 PM
#34
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Granted, Harleys & 8s are totally opposite in the handling department. Maybe thats one of the things that interest me in an 8. If I want to go fast, stop fast & take corners @ 80, I'll jump in the 8. If I want to cruise down A1A about 45 with the wind & sun on my face, I'll ride the bike. However, don't think that they are all opposites. Until very recently, Harley's were the only bikes that you could get an abundant supply of aftermarket parts for. Nothing better than spending the weekend replacing your exhaust or wheels, then posting pics & driving around watching the people notice your ride. Sound familair? The more I think about it, overall, Harley riders probably do ingore other bikers more often. To alot of them, the rice burners are the ones giving motorcyclist a bad name. You don't see too many Harleys doing wheelies & stoppies in 5:00 traffic. And coming from a true Harley Rider, and I speak for a lot of us, yes, we know our pipes are too loud and yes we are jealous of your bad to the bone 13,000 redlines. LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!! Peace!
03-20-2006, 02:47 AM
#35
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I can't sit by and let that nonsense stand. LOUD PIPES DO NOT SAVE LIVES. Loud pipes **** people off, and damage your hearing, and have no effect on saving lives.
03-20-2006, 08:21 AM
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Loud horns and rider/bike visibility save lives. I can't hear loud pipes until they're right next to me or in front of me while in my car. They don't save lives. Just draw negative attention from other motorists and public.
03-20-2006, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by dsmdriver
You have to admit that Harleys are the most image-centric bikes out there. They don't have much else going for them- you can get faster, quieter, more reliable bikes for less money. This would all be fine if their riders didn't also have a reputation for being so hostile to other riders. I don't know a single sportbike rider that actively doesn't wave at another rider based on their bike. Sure, we all miss seeing another rider sometimes or we're busy, but that has nothing to do with the other bike type.
I think all bikes are great. I think someone that decides to buy a Harley to buy into the isolationist club that surrounds them isn't so great, and I don't know why someone would decide on a Harley unless they wanted into that club. When more Harley riders start waving back maybe I'll change my mind.
Then again, maybe everyone I see on a Harley is a newbie Sunday rider and too terrified of the beast beneath them to notice anything else
Finally I was serious- the 8 is all about refinement and phenomenal handling. The Harley is completely opposite of that. What is it that you think you would enjoy about an 8 and what is it that you like about the Harley?
I think all bikes are great. I think someone that decides to buy a Harley to buy into the isolationist club that surrounds them isn't so great, and I don't know why someone would decide on a Harley unless they wanted into that club. When more Harley riders start waving back maybe I'll change my mind.
Then again, maybe everyone I see on a Harley is a newbie Sunday rider and too terrified of the beast beneath them to notice anything else
Finally I was serious- the 8 is all about refinement and phenomenal handling. The Harley is completely opposite of that. What is it that you think you would enjoy about an 8 and what is it that you like about the Harley?
People buy them cause they identify Harley as the original motorcycle and want to be part of that intrinsic feeling of owning one. Then they trailor them wherever they go or just don't drive them much. It's all in the having.
Last edited by Roaddemon; 03-20-2006 at 08:33 AM.
03-20-2006, 04:35 PM
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Loud pipes probably do bring some negative attention from certain motorist & general public that are probably uptight about anything that they aren't interested in anyway. First of all, loud horns are effective, but just like in a car, if you are honking it is sometimes too late. You may not have a second chance on a bike. If you honestly beleive that loud pipes don't play a part in "driver visibility" you have never spent much time on a bike that has them. When on a motorcycle, any attention that you can bring to yourself, negative or otherwise, is a plus. Have loud pipes saved my life? Probably not. Have they gotten me noticed while passing through someone's blind spot? You bet. Is this better....LOUD PIPES SAVE SOME LIVES....? (exceptions to every rule) Peace!!
03-20-2006, 05:59 PM
#39
Klingon Grammarian
Originally Posted by jstkilntim
Loud pipes probably do bring some negative attention from certain motorist & general public that are probably uptight about anything that they aren't interested in anyway. First of all, loud horns are effective, but just like in a car, if you are honking it is sometimes too late.
If you honestly beleive that loud pipes don't play a part in "driver visibility" you have never spent much time on a bike that has them.
When on a motorcycle, any attention that you can bring to yourself, negative or otherwise, is a plus.
Have loud pipes saved my life? Probably not. Have they gotten me noticed while passing through someone's blind spot? You bet.
03-20-2006, 06:43 PM
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Hey guys, wave factor aside, 99% of us motorcyclists have a connection that most of these car types would never understand. Those of us that did serious time on two wheels know to always stop for a stranded biker, to talk to everybody at a biker stop, to always respect each others bikes, etc.
Maybe like many of you, I've have the good fortune to try it all; cruised a Heritage Softail through the Keys, toured a BMW 1150 through Vermont, raced a Fireblade knee down with other bikes within a couple feet of me, muscled a DR400 through some of the tightest trails imaginable. Each bike was perfect for each role.
While I agree Harleys don't deserve their popularity or their price, they are decent cruisers. While I hate loud pipes and the negativity they cause, I think most are blowing it out of proportion. And while I don't agree with sportbikers stunting in public, I think cell phone users are far more dangerous to others.
While there are many who are in it for the image or the brand, most I've met are true enthusiasts.
Maybe like many of you, I've have the good fortune to try it all; cruised a Heritage Softail through the Keys, toured a BMW 1150 through Vermont, raced a Fireblade knee down with other bikes within a couple feet of me, muscled a DR400 through some of the tightest trails imaginable. Each bike was perfect for each role.
While I agree Harleys don't deserve their popularity or their price, they are decent cruisers. While I hate loud pipes and the negativity they cause, I think most are blowing it out of proportion. And while I don't agree with sportbikers stunting in public, I think cell phone users are far more dangerous to others.
While there are many who are in it for the image or the brand, most I've met are true enthusiasts.
03-20-2006, 09:07 PM
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Krankor,
It is obvious where you stand on these issues, so I doubt that I could do or say anything to convince you of anything. I do, however, respect your opinion & obvious research of these issues. I am mostly going on my 6 or 7 years of riding experience on bikes w/ & w/ out loud pipes. If you ever get a chance, take a ride on a bike w/ loud pipes. You will notice, that for the most part, they are only loud when the rider wants them to be & that they do get you noticed prior to passing the vehicle. As far as the laws go, most obnoxious laws get passed due to not enough participation in the legislation by the people that will be affected. I understand what you are saying about negative attention, but my point is strictly from a "getting a driver's attention" standpoint. Been fun. Peace!
It is obvious where you stand on these issues, so I doubt that I could do or say anything to convince you of anything. I do, however, respect your opinion & obvious research of these issues. I am mostly going on my 6 or 7 years of riding experience on bikes w/ & w/ out loud pipes. If you ever get a chance, take a ride on a bike w/ loud pipes. You will notice, that for the most part, they are only loud when the rider wants them to be & that they do get you noticed prior to passing the vehicle. As far as the laws go, most obnoxious laws get passed due to not enough participation in the legislation by the people that will be affected. I understand what you are saying about negative attention, but my point is strictly from a "getting a driver's attention" standpoint. Been fun. Peace!
03-21-2006, 08:34 AM
#42
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The only time I hear loud pipes is at stoplights or in front of me down the road or passing me after the blind spot. I really don't think they help safety wise. But they sure sound good to a biker. The average public might think different.
03-21-2006, 09:52 AM
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Loud pipes don't save lives, thats the biggest load ever.
Defensive riding saves lives, period! Any good biker knows that if you value your life, it really is your responsibility to stay out of someones blind spot
I remember a Harley I rode with open screaming eagles on it that was so loud it would startle people. Drivers end up looking into their poorly aimed review mirrors trying to see where the noise was coming from instead of focusing on where they were going, often drifting into my lane!
Sorry, I don't hate, but loud pipes is for guys craving attention, period.
Defensive riding saves lives, period! Any good biker knows that if you value your life, it really is your responsibility to stay out of someones blind spot
I remember a Harley I rode with open screaming eagles on it that was so loud it would startle people. Drivers end up looking into their poorly aimed review mirrors trying to see where the noise was coming from instead of focusing on where they were going, often drifting into my lane!
Sorry, I don't hate, but loud pipes is for guys craving attention, period.
03-22-2006, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by subduedracer
For me, the only reason I am buying a Harley is because I can get my money back out of it. They don't lose much value. What do you sport riders think of the V-Rod?
The V-rod is the best Harley by far, if your not concerned with passanger provisions or wind protection. Very powerful bike amoung cruisers, more of a sportbike engine than a typical lazy tourqe'r. But pegs scrape far too early, very noticeable considering its a relatively fast bike. Better handlers out there in the cruiser market, but nicest looking IMO.
03-22-2006, 04:45 PM
#46
Klingon Grammarian
V-rod is a very cool bike, but, while it may be manufactured by Harley Davidson, I don't generally count it as "a Harley", in terms of general discussions like this. When people talk about riding "a Harley", V-rod is not what they're talking about.
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