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Did some searching and didn't find anything. Looking to lower the gearing of our Lemons car by running smaller diameter wheels. Has anyone been able to fit 16 wheels over the manual or sport package brakes? Was also thinking about running a little more rubber which is why I was thinking about 9inches wide. Would be running a square setup.
You should use the non-sport front brakes to do that; 11.95” OD vs. 12.77” OD for Sport, both rotors are 24mm wide. That’s still plenty of brake with proper prep and pads.
17x9 wheels with a 255/40/17 works well with the sport brakes, and is a reduction in gear ratio from stock, or if you want to go slightly smaller diameter you can get 245/40/17. Both sizes are readily available in 200TW tires.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to go with the smaller brakes for endurance racing, although I have no experience with those. The sport brakes work well even without additional cooling as long as you use high temp/endurance race pads (although I would still recommend cooling on those if you can).
My assumption is that there’d be a specific reason to want 16”, like free/cheap tires or something. Otherwise the ABS system compensates for the difference. With proper ducting and pads I wouldn’t necessarily discount doing it. It is Lemons and not Le Mans after all ... well for 16” that’s what you’d have to do for OE configuration.
There was a guy a while back who was running his '8 in RallyX events and was looking for a way to fit smaller wheels because 17" gravel tires were pretty rare.
Having done three LeMons events with my buddies in a turbo'd Del Slow (and played divorce lawyer for a piston that was tired of its conrod's BS), I can say that the abuse is much lower than a Le Mans race in absolute terms. In relative terms (considering amount of preparation and money spent), the abuse is probably much higher at LeMons.
I'd bet that a mildly prepared '8 would be fine with the right pads on non-sport front rotors. If not, that's LeMons; it's not about having a good car to race. It's about have a car that's just good enough to race (or not, as the case may be) and laughing the whole way back to the paddock on the back of a flatbed. Like the guys who went to Gingerman last fall with a 70's Rolls Royce powered by >150k mile Dodge V10... And ventilated their block in the few few laps, swapped it for another >150k mile Dodge V10 and were back out the next day (would have been same day but the spare motor was in Detroit so it took several hours to arrive).
Last edited by NotAPreppie; 05-07-2019 at 11:06 AM.
Agree in absolute terms it's less, but having run into brake related issues in 2 out of the 3 cars we've run I'd err on the side of caution with braking systems. Not being able to dissipate heat effectively (such as with smaller rotors) can lead to other issues as well, we had bearing issues on the front of out mustang until we got the brake temps back under control...
Thanks for all the input guys, brakes have been on the back of my mind, but I plan on running fresh (no cross drill or slotted) stock rotors with venting and piping to them with and some Hawk dtc60, dtc70's, or carbotech (Can't remember the exact name).
I was thinking about 16X9's mostly for having an easier final drive, cheaper tires and a less aggressive look for the judges than some 18's. Plus tires will be cheaper and have a wider contact patch. I have to play to the car's strengths because we won't have a ton of power on the straights against the crown vics running 275's squared.
That all being said nothing is in stone and I value all of your input guys. Shoot I'm about to take the block apart and depending on what I find I maybe go with a completely different engine config. Everything in the air just gotta take it one step at a time.
It's an enduro... worry less about individual lap times and more about overall time spent on track.
Avoiding penalties, accidents, breakdowns, the oil slick from the car that ventilated its block right in front of you, and slow pit stops (driver swap and refuel) are more important than beating the next shitbox.
[QUOTE=blu3dragon;4886997]17x9 wheels with a 255/40/17 works well with the sport brakes, and is a reduction in gear ratio from stock, or if you want to go slightly smaller diameter you can get 245/40/17. Both sizes are readily available in 200TW tires.
Agree that the 17x9 with 255/40/17 fits and works well with the sport brakes and helps with the final drive. Height shown below.
Maybe a bunch of people just don’t understand the Lemons ruleset and intention based on the a few of the comments being made. It’s not a go out and buy the best of everything that’s considered optimum regardless of price deal. Plus as NAP pointed out, it’s more about surviving and fortune/fate than actual racing.
16” is cheaper, lighter, and should be adequate with some elbow grease and ingenuity. That’s what it’s all about for the intended application ...
OK, so the factory sport brakes are pretty good (and much better than most other cars), so I expect the smaller (non-sport) brakes would work with cooling.
However, I think the only reason to go 16 in is if you really want to save on tire costs. Now that is not a bad reason, but in that case I would add up the costs and decide if that is worth the effort on the brakes and cost of the wheels.
I expect a set of beat up oem 18x7.5 wheels will get less attention from the judges than a new set of aftermarket wheels. We could debate this I suppose... Go from 225/45/18 to 225/40/18 tires to reduce the diameter from 25.9 to 25.1 inches. Also save a bit of tire cost that way.
I don't see 16x9 wheels being readily available. I also don't see tires wider than a 225/50/16, which I think will be too much of a stretch over 9in wheels. Yes, you could do it and for the street fine, but I'm not sure I would race on that (this is pure opinion, I don't know if it is actually likely to cause a problem).
16x7.5 or 16x8 wheels you could do, and then you get your low cost (225/50/16) tires with similar diameter (24.9) and contact patch to the oem setup with 225/40/18 tires.
I expect a 17x9 wheel with 255/40/17 or 245/40/17 tires will be your fastest setup. 255 gives a touch more contact patch, 245 gives a little less diameter (24.7 vs 25). 245 is perhaps slightly quicker and lower cost, unless you find yourself hitting the ground with those. Also, you can run these with the original brakes. I think this is where you want to end up, but you might want to do your first race (or first few races) with oem wheels before investing in a bunch of 17x9 wheels. The judges will likely beat you up on your first time out anyway, but after a few races they might not even notice the different wheels (you can tell them you bent the originals and had to buy new).
I think 17X9's are probably what we will shoot for if the budget allows. I'm not to worried about Tires since we are 80% of the way there getting sponsored for them but you never know. Although I agree with you @TeamRX8 about the spirit of Lemons, they left safety equipment wide open so I plan to use it if I can.
1 place in class B was a gutted crown vic running 265's squared, guy ran 1:55. 1st placer in class A ran a 1:55. just for perspective. We're not going to win on our weak engine rebuild might as well try to have fun. **** will probably have to do twice as many pit stops as everyone else.
Anyways this is going way off topic, thanks for the advice everyone 255/40/17's it is.
I think 17X9's are probably what we will shoot for if the budget allows. I'm not to worried about Tires since we are 80% of the way there getting sponsored for them but you never know. Although I agree with you @TeamRX8 about the spirit of Lemons, they left safety equipment wide open so I plan to use it if I can.
1 place in class B was a gutted crown vic running 265's squared, guy ran 1:55. 1st placer in class A ran a 1:55. just for perspective. We're not going to win on our weak engine rebuild might as well try to have fun. **** will probably have to do twice as many pit stops as everyone else.
Anyways this is going way off topic, thanks for the advice everyone 255/40/17's it is.
really in lemons a 225/40/17 would do you better.. what little you gain in the corners will be lost everywhere else.
05-04-2019, 01:51 PM
16X9 Wheels
