Notices
RX-8 Racing Want to discuss autocrossing, road-racing and drag racing the RX-8? Bring it here. This is NOT a kills/street racing forum.

1st gear lockout question?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Rate Thread
 
Old 09-25-2005 | 03:30 PM
  #26  
pcimino's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
Yes, but after reading about exactly what double cluthing does, it's apparent that the synchros have to work too hard. But if you double clutch and rev match, should not be an issue
Old 09-25-2005 | 08:03 PM
  #27  
tuj's Avatar
tuj
Registered
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 615
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by xy4xx

isn't it not recommended by the manual not to shift into 1st gear above 20mph?
Some of us are willing to do things like this occasionally for those few extra tenths of a second.
Old 09-25-2005 | 09:01 PM
  #28  
TeamRX8's Avatar
Registered
iTrader: (25)
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 26,866
Likes: 2,083
Originally Posted by xy4xx

isn't it not recommended by the manual not to shift into 1st gear above 20mph?

but they didn't specifically say why, maybe they're worried about the avg joe overreving, spinning, or locking up the drivetrain, it's essentially the same trans used in the Miata and I've known people who've been doing it for years without issue

fwiw, 1st gear has triple cone synchros
Old 09-25-2005 | 09:19 PM
  #29  
carbonRX8's Avatar
U-Stink-But-I-♥-U
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,004
Likes: 1
From: 12 o'clock on the Beltway.
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
fwiw, 1st gear has triple cone synchros
what does fwiw mean and what does triple cone synchros mean?
Old 09-26-2005 | 12:45 AM
  #30  
TeamRX8's Avatar
Registered
iTrader: (25)
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 26,866
Likes: 2,083
fwiw = for what it's worth

Multiple cone synchronizers reduce shift effort, despite having triple cone synchros the short throw shifter forces you to use some effort to get it in gear, it takes some constant force on the lever for it to drop in, the highest gears usually only have one cone
Old 09-26-2005 | 01:37 PM
  #31  
John V's Avatar
Not ******
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 989
Likes: 70
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
fwiw = for what it's worth

Multiple cone synchronizers reduce shift effort, despite having triple cone synchros the short throw shifter forces you to use some effort to get it in gear, it takes some constant force on the lever for it to drop in, the highest gears usually only have one cone
I downshifted in the hairpin turn on the north course of nats this year. I was worried because I didn't practice the downshift on the practice course. No worries, I never biffed the shift. It was quite easy.
Old 09-26-2005 | 02:49 PM
  #32  
clyde's Avatar
www.TeamWTF.org
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by SoloII///M
No worries, I never biffed the shift. It was quite easy.
Too bad you can't say the same about the 1-2 upshift.
Old 09-26-2005 | 02:52 PM
  #33  
TeamRX8's Avatar
Registered
iTrader: (25)
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 26,866
Likes: 2,083
Originally Posted by SoloII///M
I downshifted in the hairpin turn on the north course of nats this year. I was worried because I didn't practice the downshift on the practice course. No worries, I never biffed the shift. It was quite easy.

you probably overslowed then, if you set up the braking zone to go wide on the entry there was room on the exit to carry the speed through the turn in 2nd
Old 09-26-2005 | 03:18 PM
  #34  
John V's Avatar
Not ******
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 989
Likes: 70
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
you probably overslowed then, if you set up the braking zone to go wide on the entry there was room on the exit to carry the speed through the turn in 2nd
Might be true, we'll never know. I still ran a raw (plus a cone that didn't help me) faster than any of yours on that course, and I only had 3 (and a half :p ) runs to do it. :

I was pretty sure it was faster when I was doing it, and I did carry enough speed with the downshift to push out where you're talking about, and I was set up for the wide entry. But who knows.

JV
Old 09-26-2005 | 03:25 PM
  #35  
TeamRX8's Avatar
Registered
iTrader: (25)
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 26,866
Likes: 2,083
trust me, I left a lot of time out on the course, including that corner, by no means am I implying that I was at the top of my game

if it makes you feel better, my codriver never downshifted there :p if anything it was probably even-steven to do it either way, making the shift only allows the potential for screwing up

Last edited by TeamRX8; 09-26-2005 at 03:38 PM.
Old 09-27-2005 | 06:37 AM
  #36  
John V's Avatar
Not ******
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 989
Likes: 70
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
trust me, I left a lot of time out on the course, including that corner, by no means am I implying that I was at the top of my game

if it makes you feel better, my codriver never downshifted there :p if anything it was probably even-steven to do it either way, making the shift only allows the potential for screwing up
Ugh, let's not talk about time left on course, shall we? Based on my performance at the big events this year I'm seriously doubting my abilities, especially in the RX-8 :p

I've pretty much decided next year will be spent doing more schools and fewer tours.
Old 09-27-2005 | 11:43 AM
  #37  
ULLLOSE's Avatar
05-08 SCCA BS Natl Champ
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,478
Likes: 1
From: Coto de Caza, CA
Our car has seen 1st gear at an event once, when we first got it, now we know we dont need to use it. I had the times to win the pro, Red lights, without 1st gear. Stayed in 2nd both natl courses and trust me the .2xx I was behind the first day was the big drift in the showcase not due to staying in 2nd gear.

I would side with teamrx8 on this one, if you were going to 1st on the North course you were slowing to much. I had no bog at all in that turn holding 2nd.

I guess to many years driving a vette, I just dont like to shift. Same thing at the UT pro, ran with the top times and coned away faster ones. Everyone else used 3rd, I just banged the limiter in 2nd. Every shift is lost time and the chance to make a mistake. imho
Old 09-27-2005 | 02:43 PM
  #38  
John V's Avatar
Not ******
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 989
Likes: 70
Originally Posted by ULLLOSE
I would side with teamrx8 on this one, if you were going to 1st on the North course you were slowing to much. I had no bog at all in that turn holding 2nd.
There is no way to know this without looking at comparitive 'g' data. It's possible to maintain the exact same speed through that corner with and without the downshift, unless you were at a speed that would constitute redline in first gear.

Bog is a relative term with this car. Anything under 6000 RPM or so feels like a bog to me.
Old 09-27-2005 | 02:58 PM
  #39  
ULLLOSE's Avatar
05-08 SCCA BS Natl Champ
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,478
Likes: 1
From: Coto de Caza, CA
Originally Posted by SoloII///M
There is no way to know this without looking at comparitive 'g' data. It's possible to maintain the exact same speed through that corner with and without the downshift, unless you were at a speed that would constitute redline in first gear.

Bog is a relative term with this car. Anything under 6000 RPM or so feels like a bog to me.
Even if you have the same corner speed you will lose time on the upshift. Best guys in the world will lose a tenth or more on an upshift.

Also what is the point of using 1st gear if you have to roll on the power.... While you are waiting for traction in 1st I am floored in 2nd.

Hey, you guys keep shifting. :D
Old 09-27-2005 | 04:46 PM
  #40  
RX8SpdDmn's Avatar
Registered
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
From: Florence, KY
Originally Posted by tuj
Some of us are willing to do things like this occasionally for those few extra tenths of a second.
Good explanation, tuj.

Just to pipe in here, I ALWAYS double clutch ALL my downshifts. Why? Well, it virtually eliminates the wear on the synchros and if I ALWAYS do it, then I don't screw it up when I need it most! ie, autocross 2->1 downshift. When I'm braking, I ALWAYS HEEL-AND-TOE-DOUBLE-CLUTCH-DOWNSHIFT. Mostly for the same reasons. If you get good at it, you won't be able to measure the extra time that it takes to put the clutch in and out that one extra time. By double-clutching, you'll find how EFFORTLESSLY the shifter will drop into your lower gear, assuming that you've properly rev-matched. I know if I were racing that I wouldn't double-clutch, but considering that I'm tracking my own car and I don't have a personal mechanic, I'll keep double-clutching and not worry about that extra .00x second that it takes.

Also, I can up and down-shift WITHOUT the clutch. However, it takes a lot of concentration and isn't as quick as a result. I do it to show off every once in a while, but that's about it. :D
Old 09-27-2005 | 06:15 PM
  #41  
John V's Avatar
Not ******
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 989
Likes: 70
Originally Posted by ULLLOSE
Even if you have the same corner speed you will lose time on the upshift. Best guys in the world will lose a tenth or more on an upshift.

Also what is the point of using 1st gear if you have to roll on the power.... While you are waiting for traction in 1st I am floored in 2nd.

Hey, you guys keep shifting. :D
I was floored in first exiting that corner. No problem putting down power. If you couldn't floor it in first out of that corner you're running too much camber.
Old 09-27-2005 | 08:15 PM
  #42  
ULLLOSE's Avatar
05-08 SCCA BS Natl Champ
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,478
Likes: 1
From: Coto de Caza, CA
Originally Posted by SoloII///M
I was floored in first exiting that corner. No problem putting down power. If you couldn't floor it in first out of that corner you're running too much camber.

Well if you were so fast there where did you leave the rest of your time. :D

Sorry had to do it.
Old 09-27-2005 | 08:35 PM
  #43  
John V's Avatar
Not ******
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 989
Likes: 70
Originally Posted by ULLLOSE
Well if you were so fast there where did you leave the rest of your time. :D

Sorry had to do it.
:D

Know you were joking, but... a couple tenths due to indecision at the end of the slalom. Had it in my head that I wanted to do the inside-outside line on my last run, but carried a bit too much speed at the end of the slalom to accomplish that. Didn't carry enough speed to do the outside-inside line quickly .

Plus never getting the feature sweeper quite right - but I was still flat out so maybe it didn't matter too much.

Oh, the cone didn't help either

Let's not even discuss friday...
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
WranglerFan
New Member Forum
4
05-31-2022 07:51 AM
nowakm99
Series II Technical and Trouble shooting
1
10-09-2015 07:10 AM
GARCIAC951
Series I Tech Garage
8
09-10-2015 07:17 PM
TJSiegrist
New Member Forum
9
09-10-2015 09:29 AM
Rupanrx
Series I Aftermarket Performance Modifications
1
09-04-2015 06:44 AM



You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Quick Reply: 1st gear lockout question?



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:50 PM.