2010 Wendover NT & Pro
05-17-2010, 08:29 AM
#1
Row faster, I hear banjos
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2010 Wendover NT & Pro
Final results are up: http://www.scca.org/documents/result...20Results3.pdf
Congrats to Brian Coulson on the 4+ second win in CS. Also congrats to Coleman & Hudetz on the 1-2 finish in STX.
For anyone that was in attendance, what happened in H-stock? Looks like two drivers in a Tacoma X-runner were DQ'd...
Congrats to Brian Coulson on the 4+ second win in CS. Also congrats to Coleman & Hudetz on the 1-2 finish in STX.
For anyone that was in attendance, what happened in H-stock? Looks like two drivers in a Tacoma X-runner were DQ'd...
05-17-2010, 08:48 AM
#2
Thanks, Chike. This was my first time on "real" concrete. Certainly was much different than Lincoln. The car pushed badly at the test & tune. Good thing I brought the Whiteline rear bar, which we swapped in (I normally run the OEM rear bar at Packwood) and even softened the front bar & shocks to make things work reasonably well. Grip level was high & very fun.
STX was basically four of us from the Pacific Northwest & one local. We were hoping for some tough, out-of-town competition, but it looks like we have to wait for the Pro this weekend for that. Mihia will be there with his WRX, along with a few other WRXs. Additionally, Tom Berry's BMW will be there, with Kurt Rahn driving. The altitude + launch should give the WRXs an advantage that will be hard to overcome, but we are looking forward to competing against the BMWs to see where we are at.
The Tacoma is a "not otherwise classified" vehicle, which are apparanty not legal to run in tours or nats. Pretty frustrating for the drivers since they have already been to multiple tours.
[edit] - note that it was a Coleman-Hudetz-Coleman podium sweep. Amy was driving Michael Duncan's RX-8 (thanks Mike!) which was on shaved 17" Yoks & AST coilovers. Mike also has done more lightening than I have, and his car came across the scales 25 lbs lighter than mine, which surprised us all given that he has the Touring package compared to my Sport package. Also, the SCCA scales pegged my car as roughly 80-90 lbs heavier than the scales at my local race shop gave me.
STX was basically four of us from the Pacific Northwest & one local. We were hoping for some tough, out-of-town competition, but it looks like we have to wait for the Pro this weekend for that. Mihia will be there with his WRX, along with a few other WRXs. Additionally, Tom Berry's BMW will be there, with Kurt Rahn driving. The altitude + launch should give the WRXs an advantage that will be hard to overcome, but we are looking forward to competing against the BMWs to see where we are at.
The Tacoma is a "not otherwise classified" vehicle, which are apparanty not legal to run in tours or nats. Pretty frustrating for the drivers since they have already been to multiple tours.
[edit] - note that it was a Coleman-Hudetz-Coleman podium sweep. Amy was driving Michael Duncan's RX-8 (thanks Mike!) which was on shaved 17" Yoks & AST coilovers. Mike also has done more lightening than I have, and his car came across the scales 25 lbs lighter than mine, which surprised us all given that he has the Touring package compared to my Sport package. Also, the SCCA scales pegged my car as roughly 80-90 lbs heavier than the scales at my local race shop gave me.
Last edited by GeorgeH; 05-17-2010 at 08:53 AM.
05-17-2010, 10:43 AM
#3
Row faster, I hear banjos
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Hopefully they can ask the SEB for an official classing in stock if they decide to run the truck in the future.
05-17-2010, 01:39 PM
#5
My car, last year, weight about 2750 on the scales at AR Racing.
At Wendover, my car weighed 2850 (plus or minus a few lbs).
I'm using the OEM seat for now, while I had the Bride mounted last year, so +12 lbs there. SSRs are 3 lbs lighter, but the RE-11s are 2-3 lbs heavier, so that's a wash. Probably had one or two more gallons of fuel in the car at Wendover. Everything else was the same.
So, I'd say there is at least a 75 lb discrepancy. Not quite what I stated above.
At Wendover, my car weighed 2850 (plus or minus a few lbs).
I'm using the OEM seat for now, while I had the Bride mounted last year, so +12 lbs there. SSRs are 3 lbs lighter, but the RE-11s are 2-3 lbs heavier, so that's a wash. Probably had one or two more gallons of fuel in the car at Wendover. Everything else was the same.
So, I'd say there is at least a 75 lb discrepancy. Not quite what I stated above.
05-17-2010, 01:47 PM
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I was thinking the same thing, congrats to the 3 of you!
Brian had some great runs in CS, a well-deserved win. He also managed an impressive under-10-minute exhaust swap in between runs on Sunday, after a sound reading warning.
Dave and Bruce were driving my car, and ran into the evil rx8 1st/2nd gear synchro curse in the morning. On one of Bruce's runs, he couldn't get into 2nd gear so he went to 3rd instead. I ran in the last heat, and was able to shift without the grind, but I know the problem is in there, and has to be dealt with.
Brian had some great runs in CS, a well-deserved win. He also managed an impressive under-10-minute exhaust swap in between runs on Sunday, after a sound reading warning.
Dave and Bruce were driving my car, and ran into the evil rx8 1st/2nd gear synchro curse in the morning. On one of Bruce's runs, he couldn't get into 2nd gear so he went to 3rd instead. I ran in the last heat, and was able to shift without the grind, but I know the problem is in there, and has to be dealt with.
05-17-2010, 03:21 PM
#8
I guess they were trying to take advantage of a "loop hole" in the rules. I feel for them as no one wants to be DQ'd at a National Event after spending the time/money to attend.
Hopefully they can ask the SEB for an official classing in stock if they decide to run the truck in the future.
Hopefully they can ask the SEB for an official classing in stock if they decide to run the truck in the future.
http://www.scca.com/documents/Fastra...track-sept.pdf
NOT RECOMMENDED
o Toyota X Runner classing (ref. 08-301) Comment: not classed at this time due to SSF-related concerns.
I don't think this is right, based on the fact it is a 2wd truck, and when you consider the height of the majority of the vehicle, which is not the cab. However, unless something else is published in FT these should not be running under the current rules.
05-17-2010, 05:33 PM
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[Guys running the Tacoma truck]
Probably just an inadvertent choice of words on your part, but I know these guys (they're from my region), and I'm fairly confident that they weren't intentionally skirting the rules. I think it's likely that they thought (incorrectly, as it turns out) that they were legal, and no one protested them until now.
Probably just an inadvertent choice of words on your part, but I know these guys (they're from my region), and I'm fairly confident that they weren't intentionally skirting the rules. I think it's likely that they thought (incorrectly, as it turns out) that they were legal, and no one protested them until now.
05-17-2010, 08:31 PM
#10
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Probably just an inadvertent choice of words on your part, but I know these guys (they're from my region), and I'm fairly confident that they weren't intentionally skirting the rules. I think it's likely that they thought (incorrectly, as it turns out) that they were legal, and no one protested them until now.
I will say this though, when I look at the Fastrack that Isley posted, they really shouldn't have entered it into a national event. Even taking it out to a local event could be "iffy"...
05-17-2010, 08:54 PM
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That Fasttrack was dated Sep 2008.
Curious, if a vehicle is not on an exclusion list in the latest rules, how does a new'ish person know whether something was discussed or under consideration over a year earlier?
George - re: Packwood - are you bringing cookies again?
I love the Packwood events, so I sure hope to be there this year. And I'll still be at Wendover this coming weekend, hopefully with my car holding up through Sunday. See you then!
Curious, if a vehicle is not on an exclusion list in the latest rules, how does a new'ish person know whether something was discussed or under consideration over a year earlier?
George - re: Packwood - are you bringing cookies again?
I love the Packwood events, so I sure hope to be there this year. And I'll still be at Wendover this coming weekend, hopefully with my car holding up through Sunday. See you then!
05-17-2010, 09:13 PM
#12
I'm confused over the weight you're claiming the other car being discussed is? 
My car, last year, weight about 2750 on the scales at AR Racing.
At Wendover, my car weighed 2850 (plus or minus a few lbs).
I'm using the OEM seat for now, while I had the Bride mounted last year, so +12 lbs there. SSRs are 3 lbs lighter, but the RE-11s are 2-3 lbs heavier, so that's a wash. Probably had one or two more gallons of fuel in the car at Wendover. Everything else was the same.
So, I'd say there is at least a 75 lb discrepancy. Not quite what I stated above.
At Wendover, my car weighed 2850 (plus or minus a few lbs).
I'm using the OEM seat for now, while I had the Bride mounted last year, so +12 lbs there. SSRs are 3 lbs lighter, but the RE-11s are 2-3 lbs heavier, so that's a wash. Probably had one or two more gallons of fuel in the car at Wendover. Everything else was the same.
So, I'd say there is at least a 75 lb discrepancy. Not quite what I stated above.
05-17-2010, 10:32 PM
#13
Ah, I thought you were asking about the discrepancy between the weight of my car on the SCCA scales vs. the scales at my local shop.
At Wendover, we weighed both my car and Michael Duncan's car, which is an '04 Touring. My car came in at 2850, Mike's came in at 2825 (roughly speaking).
[edit] Doing a quick tally of the differences we noted between my car and Mike's, in terms of weight savings measures Mike took, gets to about 60 lbs or so. So, if I did everything to my car that Mike did to his, my car would have been 35 lbs lighter than his. This seems odd to me - I suspect the weight difference between a Touring (leather, sunroof, Bose, etc) and a Sport is more than 35 lbs. But I could be wrong.
I noticed that when they rolled my car onto the scales, the tires were not centered on the pads. Not sure if that matters or not in terms of getting an accurate reading.
At Wendover, we weighed both my car and Michael Duncan's car, which is an '04 Touring. My car came in at 2850, Mike's came in at 2825 (roughly speaking).
[edit] Doing a quick tally of the differences we noted between my car and Mike's, in terms of weight savings measures Mike took, gets to about 60 lbs or so. So, if I did everything to my car that Mike did to his, my car would have been 35 lbs lighter than his. This seems odd to me - I suspect the weight difference between a Touring (leather, sunroof, Bose, etc) and a Sport is more than 35 lbs. But I could be wrong.
I noticed that when they rolled my car onto the scales, the tires were not centered on the pads. Not sure if that matters or not in terms of getting an accurate reading.
Last edited by GeorgeH; 05-17-2010 at 10:45 PM.
05-18-2010, 11:47 AM
#15
But you sure would have thought at a Tour someone in the know would have caught it.
05-18-2010, 08:58 PM
#16
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google searching about my truck found this thread.
I am the owner of the truck they DSQed and yeah it was a ruling they threw at us at the last possible moment. As the story goes I guess the chief of compliance noticed the online results and sent in an email reguarding a rule in the SCCA Solo book that I overlooked and after running my first national event in packwood assumed it was ok. This was the 4th national event Ive run and it wasnt until I was in first place on saturday that all of the sudden this was an issue. I wasnt trying to find a loop hole Im just a little new to the national scene and didnt know about this rule. I am fine with the ruling as it is a rule in the book that I completely missed. I know I have a lot of the NWR autocrossers support and am trying to get the SEB to class it as soon as possible, especially since I allready have the flights, rooms, and prosolo paid for.
Basically Im frustrated that no officials look over the registration list and help with this sort of thing.
-Matt
I am the owner of the truck they DSQed and yeah it was a ruling they threw at us at the last possible moment. As the story goes I guess the chief of compliance noticed the online results and sent in an email reguarding a rule in the SCCA Solo book that I overlooked and after running my first national event in packwood assumed it was ok. This was the 4th national event Ive run and it wasnt until I was in first place on saturday that all of the sudden this was an issue. I wasnt trying to find a loop hole Im just a little new to the national scene and didnt know about this rule. I am fine with the ruling as it is a rule in the book that I completely missed. I know I have a lot of the NWR autocrossers support and am trying to get the SEB to class it as soon as possible, especially since I allready have the flights, rooms, and prosolo paid for.
Basically Im frustrated that no officials look over the registration list and help with this sort of thing.
-Matt
05-18-2010, 09:47 PM
#17
Probably doesn't make enough difference but we've had a XRunner at our local events for at least two years. He was running streets here but IIRC he has RComps now.
There was a black one at our last event as well. Never seemed like stability was ever an issue from what I could see.
Last edited by tpdrx8; 05-18-2010 at 09:58 PM.
05-18-2010, 10:35 PM
#18
More often than not committees tend to rely on the chicken little thought process rather than actual data
that said, the rulebook is fairly clear about high CG vehicles. Why anyone wants to autox a large near/stock truck is beyond me. There was one running at the El Toro that I was surprised would be allowed. With insurance, liability, site retention etc. what it is these days it doesn't make sense to take the risk. We live in chicken little times these days ....
that said, the rulebook is fairly clear about high CG vehicles. Why anyone wants to autox a large near/stock truck is beyond me. There was one running at the El Toro that I was surprised would be allowed. With insurance, liability, site retention etc. what it is these days it doesn't make sense to take the risk. We live in chicken little times these days ....
05-19-2010, 01:13 AM
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I am writing a letter to the SEB in hopes that they can get it in HS. I wouldnt be racing it if it wasnt a blast to compete with in class. Some one has to give those minis a run for thier money.
05-23-2010, 05:07 PM
#20
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Provisional results from the pro: http://www.scca.com/documents/result...20Results2.pdf
Last edited by chiketkd; 05-24-2010 at 08:09 AM. Reason: Correction to the link
05-23-2010, 11:28 PM
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Unless something changed since I left Wendover this afternoon, Heywood Wagner won STX in the Civic.
Man, the grip! I blame that, and the wind, for so many cones.
I don't think they'll see this, but thanks to Bruce Harmon for deciding to return to Wendover to try a ProSolo in his Solstice, and huge thanks to Corey Cooper for moving to CS so we could have a class. This was their first ProSolo (as well as Dave Deborde's). And most of all from me, Congrats to Brian Coulson for winning CS and being 4th qualifier!
Man, the grip! I blame that, and the wind, for so many cones.
I don't think they'll see this, but thanks to Bruce Harmon for deciding to return to Wendover to try a ProSolo in his Solstice, and huge thanks to Corey Cooper for moving to CS so we could have a class. This was their first ProSolo (as well as Dave Deborde's). And most of all from me, Congrats to Brian Coulson for winning CS and being 4th qualifier!
05-24-2010, 08:08 AM
#22
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05-24-2010, 10:59 AM
#23
As expected, STX was a much tougher class at the Pro. The course was highly transition intensive and was fun to drive. Pretty much the entire class got faster with each session (with one notable exception) and it was a challenge to keep up. I did manage to remove significant time over the course of the weekend, but not enough to get into the trophies.
We figured it was Mihai’s race too loose, in the WRX, and indeed he was leading coming into Sunday morning. However he blew a gasket in the exhaust somewhere late Saturday, and the temporary fix didn’t hold on Sunday. Not being able to make full boost (as he explained it to me) resulted in Mihai falling back to fourth.
The interloper in the ST Civic (Heyward) made a strong comeback on Sunday to take the class. It was fun racing on Sunday, when the lead switched multiple times between Karl, Heyward, and Will in the Berry BMW, but ultimately sticking with Heyward. Those Civics are fast.
Speaking of the BMW, while we would have liked to place ahead of Will, we were pleased that Karl was able to finish so close to the Berry-mobile. Will is an excellent driver so there is no shame there. I chatted with Tom and he indicated that there is more development in store for the car, but we can say the same for my car. It is clear that we are in for a real battle with the BMWs at nats. Just not sure about those ST Civics. I guess we have to hope for open, fast courses (which this course was not) to keep the ST Civics at bay.
Political plug: I sincerely hope that next year, the STAC comes through on it’s proposal to subjectively class ST* cars and to keep the Civics out of STX. We need the chance to develop our cars without the threat of a good driver in a highly developed ST car coming in and taking the top spot(s) & contingency money.
As for my performance, all four drivers that finished ahead of me are recognized national level drivers, so I just have to take my lumps there. If I hadn’t coned my last run on the left (I know, cry me a river) I would have bumped Mihai out of the trophies. As Karl continues to learn the car and find speed, hopefully some of that will rub off on me and I will be able to improve my driving over the summer.
Launch-wise, the WRX had a half-second on us at 60’, and when Karl was launching against Mihai, it looked like he had us by roughly a full second at the first turn-in point. A turbo at 4200 feet plus the AWD launch was very hard to overcome. Fortunately neither of these advantages will be present at Lincoln.
I launched against Berry’s BMW (but not with Will at the wheel) and we were very evenly matched through first & second.
The Bridgestones worked very well for us (the Berry car was on RE-11s as well) on the concrete. The grip level on Sunday (we ran last) was insane, and it was super fun carrying so much speed through the course. Good racing!
We figured it was Mihai’s race too loose, in the WRX, and indeed he was leading coming into Sunday morning. However he blew a gasket in the exhaust somewhere late Saturday, and the temporary fix didn’t hold on Sunday. Not being able to make full boost (as he explained it to me) resulted in Mihai falling back to fourth.
The interloper in the ST Civic (Heyward) made a strong comeback on Sunday to take the class. It was fun racing on Sunday, when the lead switched multiple times between Karl, Heyward, and Will in the Berry BMW, but ultimately sticking with Heyward. Those Civics are fast.
Speaking of the BMW, while we would have liked to place ahead of Will, we were pleased that Karl was able to finish so close to the Berry-mobile. Will is an excellent driver so there is no shame there. I chatted with Tom and he indicated that there is more development in store for the car, but we can say the same for my car. It is clear that we are in for a real battle with the BMWs at nats. Just not sure about those ST Civics. I guess we have to hope for open, fast courses (which this course was not) to keep the ST Civics at bay.
Political plug: I sincerely hope that next year, the STAC comes through on it’s proposal to subjectively class ST* cars and to keep the Civics out of STX. We need the chance to develop our cars without the threat of a good driver in a highly developed ST car coming in and taking the top spot(s) & contingency money.
As for my performance, all four drivers that finished ahead of me are recognized national level drivers, so I just have to take my lumps there. If I hadn’t coned my last run on the left (I know, cry me a river) I would have bumped Mihai out of the trophies. As Karl continues to learn the car and find speed, hopefully some of that will rub off on me and I will be able to improve my driving over the summer.
Launch-wise, the WRX had a half-second on us at 60’, and when Karl was launching against Mihai, it looked like he had us by roughly a full second at the first turn-in point. A turbo at 4200 feet plus the AWD launch was very hard to overcome. Fortunately neither of these advantages will be present at Lincoln.
I launched against Berry’s BMW (but not with Will at the wheel) and we were very evenly matched through first & second.
The Bridgestones worked very well for us (the Berry car was on RE-11s as well) on the concrete. The grip level on Sunday (we ran last) was insane, and it was super fun carrying so much speed through the course. Good racing!