I guess we'll have to leave this as matter of opinion. For my car that gets driven on the street, it's not getting any type of roll cage. I'd rather have my head come into contact with a side curtain air bag than foam around a metal bar.

Yeah, I have seen cars roll at the track.

 

I can speak on this with some authority, having been a racer and cornerworker in the past.
I would, and have, driven on the street with a roll bar. The main hoop wasn't anywhere near my head. Even with the way a human body streaches in a rollover, I didn't see anyway the head would inpact the bar.
A roll cage, on the other hand is different. the forward leading member, coming from the main hoop, runs past your head. In a smaller sportscar, your head w/helmet is touching it constantly. The padding sold to pad roll cages isn't enough to protect you bare head.

 

A friend of mine was the National Champion for TTD last year. He campaigned a Honda S2000 that had formally been used for the Cannonball One Lap of America. He is a really good driver, probably the best that I know.

He borrowed a near stock RX-8 and a TTD legal 2000 Mustang GT for one event at Mid Ohio after he had blown an engine. His times in the RX-8 were a few seconds behind the Mustang which was again a few seconds off the S2000. It's tough to compare stock cars with modified cars but I would have to say that if you were seriously campaigning for TTD, there are better cars to start with the RX-8 (like the S2000).

 

Good idea. Lets all go trade in right now because last year TTD was won by a modified s2000 that was a few seconds faster than a "near stock" rx8

What is your friends name and what is his home region?

 

I wasn't suggesting that everyone trade in their cars. I was just saying that the RX-8 is not as competitive in the TTD class as some cars. The rules don't particularly favor our car. A 2 seat sportscar like the S2000 would be a a better starting platform. In SCCA Autocross BS class, the RX-8 is very competitive. It is "the car" to have. I don't think it is so competitive for TTD given the current rules.

Obviously, for time trials who is driving makes the most difference. My experience with time attacks is that on some days for whatever reason, the best drivers don't show up and someone ends up with a trophy that perhaps might not otherwise have had the opportunity.

Allen Skillicorn, Midwest region. I think he is competing this year but with a different car since he sold the S2000 and bought a spec miata for wheel to wheel racing. I believe he is instructing and running TT (car is a mystery) at the upcoming Autobahn CC event. If you are interested in more info, PM me and perhaps I could put you in touch with him. He's a really nice guy.

 

I am aware of your friend. He must be one really good driver because I looked at his times on the website results section before getting into this this year and had conceded finishing behind him.

Running virutally stock is very hard. I think it is almost better to add mods and be competitive in C.
I am struggling against a M3 E36 w a pretty good driver + suspension work + R's. He was 1.1s faster this past weekend and I had nothing for him.
Where the frig can I get another second + . He also had a passenger w him.
Granted there was room for me to improve (my driving) but I am not sure I could get a whole second +.
I'm leading my region right now but we'll be even by the end of next events and he will pass me in points in the final event unless he has bad luck.....

I think the RX8 is an OK car to use for TTD but you need to be mindful of your competition, tracks you run and what you want to use your 18 points worth on.

 

Hi RX8 JET,
Not sure if you remember, but I think we met at the Windy City BMW event at Road America last year. I had a black RX-8 in a different run group.

As for my friend, yes he's really good. He used to race motorcycles so you know he is completely crazy. In fact, he so good that I think he could race professionally if he had the financial backing. At mid-Ohio, he was 2-3 seconds faster than both the RX-8 driver (me) and the Mustang driver even though he had never driven our cars before. I like to think he was being especially cautious in our cars since he didn't want to crash his friends' cars and also the RX-8 was our only ride home at that point. He also only had a few sessions at Mid Ohio under his belt since his car blew up early in the weekend.

Here in the midwest, we also compete in Time Attack or high speed autocross with the Midwest council of sportscar clubs. My friend has many of the track records in various cars. He's also a former E36 M3 driver.

I know some other guys competing in TTD in the Midwest with E36 M3s, not sure how successfully they are but they are much faster than me.

There was another RX-8 driver (Jay Goldsfarb) competing in TTD last year. I think he ended up going back to a BMW.

 

Hi RB,

I remember you now that you referenced where we met. Hope all is well with you. Doing this TTD thing has caused me to miss this year's RA event. I miss RA. I love that track. Doing TTD has made me miss out quite a few places I normally roam (Mosport, Watkins Glen, etc.) I did get to do Gratten because of TTD.

The E36 is not a bad car to use. It has decent power/torque and handles quite well with a fair selection of aftermarket mods. so you can make it a very useable pkg.....certainly enough to kick my _ _ _!!!

 

I like Road America too but every time I go there the weather is so bad. I was there back in October with NASA last year and it rained and snowed for parts of both days.

Grattan and Mid Ohio are my favorite tracks though.

Unfortunately, I haven't done any events this year but I'm going to Putnam with the Windy City BMW club next month for a driving school.

Good luck with the time trials and those E36s.

 

What's Putnam like? I will need to go in October I fear .... any secrets or things that can help me be competitive? My BMW buddy (actually a nice guy) has knowledge there so I already am at a disadvantage.

 

I'll PM you once I get back. I haven't been there before. I've heard that it is a pretty safe track (like Gingerman) where you can really push the car without worrying about hitting too many walls.

Windy City BMW went there last year for the first time instead of Grattan and everyone seemed to like the track.

Grattan was in pretty bad need of maintenance and resurfacing the last time they were there. Has any recent work been done to improve Grattan?

 

Absolutely not.....I wouldn't call it pretty bad (I probably have a lower expectation)but it does need help.... no damage to car, didn't really eat tires, just bumpy....but then again, I probably more lightly sprung compared to other guys running...

 

What kind of tires were on the RX-8 and the Mustang?

As in most other forms of motorsports, tires are the #1 most important aspect of the car. If your "near stock" RX-8 was on Falkens or RE01Rs or some other street tire, I would expect a 3-4 second difference per lap over the V710s that Allen used on the S2000, without any other changes.

 

RX-8 was on Falkens, Mustang was on some sort of R Comps.

He ran a 1:52.2 in my car and 1:48.8 in the stang, both on the same day. Not sure what he ran in the s2000 that day but he later ran a 1:44.8 at Nationals.

Tough to compare the different days because the first times were right after the track was resurfaced in spring 2006 and the national time was run in the fall after a season of rubber had been laid down on the track.

 

So on a green track at a local event in an unfamiliar “almost stock” car on Falken street tires he was 7.4 seconds slower than he was on a rubbered track at the National Championship in his own prepped car on Kumho V710s? No offense, but I’d hardly call that conclusive evidence that the RX-8 is overmatched in TTD.

 

+1

also you admittedly said (you think) he was holding something back as that car was going to be the ride home that weekend.

Seems like a pretty evenly matched pair of cars if comparably setup.

The way I have spec'd out my 18 points on this car there is no doubt in my mind the driver is going to be the limiting factor.

 

Well, best of luck to you and everyone else.

BTW, How many TTDs have you won so far with your RX-8?


I didn't say it couldn't be done, only that the RX-8 is not the class killer that it is in BS autocross and it wouldn't be my first choice.

 

I've won as many as I've competed in.

 

I just read the classifications and it takes 20 points to move up 1 class. That means you can add 19 points of mods and stay in class.

I think the RX8 will face some tough competition in this class. You would be battling it out with the likes of E36 M3s that can spend 19 points. Or you may encounter V8 Mustangs that class in TTE with 14 points base that can be made to handle extremely well and make more power with 25 points to spend. Another contender would be a Porsche 944 Turbo with 19 points to spend on tires and suspension. In short we will be down on power on tracks with long straights or tracks that have hairpins leading on to a straight where the lack of torque kills us.

That said, I am going to see how I do in August at Road Atlanta. My points are as follows:
Toyo RA1 Tires: 5 pts
Bilstein shocks: 3 pts
RB springs: 2 pts
RB Sway bar: 2 pts
RB Intake: 1 pt
RB Catback: 1 pt
Agency crank pulley: 1 pt

Total: 15 points with 4 to spend. Since I am not trying to win a championship and am just after the fun factor, I am not too concerned about figuring out how to spend those last 4 points. I'll run what I brung and see how I do.

 

Wow, how many autocrosses have you won in your 8?

 

So can anyone think of any other treadwear 100 tires other than the Toyo RA-1?

 

Nitto NT01

 

Have you even considered running Time Trial with your GA group?

It just seems that Toyo or maybe Kumho would be better, just based on the fact that they offer a contingency program, but I guess you have to win first before they throw money at you anyway.

 

This looks like it could be handy for someone...

http://www.roadsters.com/tires/#tires

 

I track with TA and will also be starting TTD for the fun of it.
my mods are this
hoosier 225/45/17--since this is down 20mm from the astandard 245 the hoosiers come out only 6 points and the 225 hoosier is as wide as a 235 other!
midpipe
rb intake
konis with tein h springs and rb bars
rb catback exhaust
agency pulley
with the weight factor i think we can have fun-- at least within our own groups.
olddragger