Time for some new pads. Can anyone make a direct comparison with the DTC-60s and the XP8/10/12 Carbotechs with respect to wear? Or the other Hawk options? I estimate I can get ~6-700 track miles from the Hawks. I've searched and read plenty of impressions but no direct comparisons with someone who has tried both pads. FWIW, The Corvette guys seemed to indicate the Carbotechs wear faster. I'm looking for improved modulation with similar or slightly less bite than the 60s but pad life is my number one concern. I know the Carbotechs are easier on the rotors but rotors are so cheap I don't consider this much of an improvement. Track weight is ~3250lb with ~190whp. 80-200TW tires and I drive the **** out of it.

Please express wear in number of miles or hours on track...number of days doesn't mean much...

Thanks,
Chris

 

I am interested in this too. Basically, which pad has the best cost per track mile?

Not a simple one to work out given changing driving conditions and the answer may change between different compounds depending on what temperature the brakes run at...

I have 3 weekends, that's ~10 hrs ~500 miles of HPDE time on a new set of DTC-60 Front and rear with the oem discs.

Front are basically done, maybe one or two more sessions (~50 miles) in them. Rear could probably last another weekend (so another 3-4hrs or 150-200 miles).

Given the price of the DTC-60 on tire rack, I suspect they are the best value and just ordered another set for the front.

I don't have a direct comparison with the Carbotech's, but my past experience with XP12 on the front of a civic tells me the best they will do is match the pad life of DTC-60 and likely be worse. On the civic I tried DS1.11, CL5+ and XP12 on the front. All of them overheated due to the poor capacity of the stock brakes on the civic, but the XP12 did the worst of the 3. XP12 also had the worst feel of the 3 for me.

I'll be interested to hear what you try and what you find out...

 

I like the feel of the XP12. It's not too grabby and allows good modulations etc. As far as pad life I'd call it just "ok". I can get maybe 6 hours of race time out of a set?

If pad life is your number 1 concern you should go with some of the Raybestos racing compounds... they last a long long long time.

 

Well I just about managed 1 more 20 minute session out of my front pads. Towards the end of that they started to fade and lose material quickly. Replaced with another set of new DTC-60 front and rear.

Will try Rabestos next time... I'm also going to ask if I can get them unpainted as the paint from the new pads not only made a mess, but this time melted a hole in my new caliper dust seal where it landed after having flown off the pad in a liquid state.

btw, I dyno'd at 183 whp, and the car weighs ~2950 lbs without me (s2 sport with 17x9 RPF1s and a mid-pipe).

 

Unfortunately, what track they are driving on will play a big factor too, but I understand what you're trying to get at.

 

Tried HT-10's?

 

No, but given the lower temp range in comparison to DTC-60 aren't they likely to be worse?

 

So I have now run 7 days on a set of raybestos pads with new discs. 1 day at Sonoma and 6 at Thunderhill 5-mile.

I'm impressed. There is still plenty of pad left and the discs are barely worn. I'm tempted to say both pads and discs will last 2x as long as when I was using DTC60, although some of that may be due to environmental factors (different track configuration and my driving has improved such that I am carrying more entry speed now)

The brakes work better from cold as well and I have a suspicion it is at cold temps that the raybestos have significantly less disc wear.

It did take me a few sessions to re-calibrate to the different friction characteristics, but once I had, I think performance wise they are similar, or maybe a bit ahead of DTC-60.

The only downside is that I had to take a bit of time to file down the backing plates to get them to fit - the factory cut is a little off. Doing this is probably not as bad as dealing with the thick paint on the hawk pads though.

On the street, they work perfectly well from cold, but are noisy, and the feel is worse than with the stock pads. I have a theory the worse feel is due to the higher friction meaning they don't need much pedal pressure for slow stops.

 

Yes, sometimes the backing plate cut on the Raybestos pads can be SOOO bad. I swear they must have some kid with a grinder/saw making the backing plates by hand. They SAID they were going to get better about this last year (Have not tried them since)... but I guess not.

 

i dunno about carbon tech, but I just had a run with DTC-60 Front and Rear + OEM disc

It smokes after maybe 4-5 laps and starts melting, it melt because the track had a really long straight and I gotta brake from 120-130mph to almost 30 to make a sharp right turn couple of times and it overheats.

it's good pad though, even when it starts smoking I had good enough braking power to make it back to the pit safely, gotta let it sit for at least 30 mins before I can go again.

2 days of track and its almost done.

I will try to go with DTC-60 next time with Stoptech(Centric) Slotted disc with duct directed to the brakes and see what happens.

 

I'm done with my set of Raybestos ST-43 at this point. I got 14 days in total out of a single set (3 at Sonoma, 6 at TH 5-mile, 4 at TH 3 mile and 1 at Laguna Seca). At the end it was the outside front pads that gave up. The inside front still have a few mm left, as do the rears. I expected the inside to wear quicker, so I actually rotated them to put the thinner pad on the outside. Maybe that's what did it, or the scoop on the stock dust shield is helping to cool the inside front a little more than the outside (I'm not running any ducting).

I've since run another 2 days at TH 3 mile on a used set of DTC-60 I had from earlier. I have to say I quite liked the feel of them for 1.5 days, but not so much the last 0.5 day. I'm not sure if this was fluid related, or the pads themselves going off as the material wore down. That brings me to 14 days across 3 sets of front and 2 sets of rear DTC-60.

So, question time, do I go with another set of Raybestos ST43 now, or try something else?

 

as far as performance with the DTC-60 and the ST-43, what was the difference in calibration you needed to do? Initial bite difference? modulation ability difference? operating temp range?

 

The temp vs friction curve is different, so you need to adjust pedal pressure accordingly. At this point I don't really trust my memory to offer any more detail than that.

I would not say one is better than the other, just once you are used to one, you need to readjust to the other.

 

6 days on track with CL5+ and the fronts are done. Rears probably have 1/3 left. 1 day was limited running, and two days were wet, but the last day at LS was full attack and did quite a bit of damage I'm also using stickier tires than earlier (NT01 vs direzza Z2).

Overall probably similar durability to DTC-60. More consistent though, from cold through hot and more street friendly.

Fitment was spot on and I like the extra thick copper backing plates. In comparison, DTC-60 fitment is also good, but the thick paint makes a mess as it melts off. I had to file my ST-43s down to fit properly.

Lower peak friction than DTC-60/ST43 which was noticeable braking into T2 at LS and probably the cause of going through them quickly on that day, but could still engage abs with enough pedal pressure. I think for street tires they are very good, at their limit with 100TW NT01s, and I would go with something more aggressive for stickier rubber than that.

Overall, these get my recommendation for the ultimate dual purpose pad, good pedal feel and able to work from cold to extremely hot. Easy to modulate as the friction curve feels very linear. Do expect to put up with some noise & dust on the street. I drove these daily and was occasionally embarrassed by the squeal, but it was not bad enough for me to swap them out, while I could not put up with DTC-60 or ST-43 daily.

I'm trying CL6e next...

 

Quick update on the CL6e after 1 day at Laguna Seca. Felt very good. Linear like the CL5+, but with more friction/bite and so was easier to stop the car than with CL5+. There is still plenty of pad left so will see how they do with some more time on them. Noise driving home was minimal too, but I expect it will increase as the transfer layer wears off the rotor.