Do any of you use a gt wing for track days/ competition
12-03-2007, 03:30 PM
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Do any of you use a gt wing for track days/ competition
I was wondering if any of you guys use gt wings for track days / competition im not sure about competition use do to regulations.
But for those who do use gt wings for track days. Have you noticed any sort of improvement in handling with the wing as opposed to without.
But for those who do use gt wings for track days. Have you noticed any sort of improvement in handling with the wing as opposed to without.
12-03-2007, 05:53 PM
#4
WHAT???!!!! I have NEVER heard that before. Someone please educate me.
I thought we had a (pretty much) zero lift car? And the MS wing only gave a couple pounds of downforce, and that is at high speeds. Let alone the GT wing. Doesnt it take some serious speed to make good downforce?
I am confused. . . now I have to suscribe to this thread to find the answers.
I thought we had a (pretty much) zero lift car? And the MS wing only gave a couple pounds of downforce, and that is at high speeds. Let alone the GT wing. Doesnt it take some serious speed to make good downforce?
I am confused. . . now I have to suscribe to this thread to find the answers.
12-03-2007, 06:39 PM
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Here are two pics of my Sport model RX-8 with the optional factory wing. I really doubt it provides any useful downforce - but I'd like to be proved wrong. 
12-03-2007, 07:08 PM
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Jason has one...and a threepeat....so it MUST be the hot setup 
I'd be surprised if the GT wing did anything below 80-90 mph, but what do I know, I'm still looking for the airbag fuse...
I'd be surprised if the GT wing did anything below 80-90 mph, but what do I know, I'm still looking for the airbag fuse...
12-05-2007, 04:18 PM
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Im not talking about a factory wing...
I was talking about after market GT wings used on pro drift cars jgtc every type of professional racing.
Thank you stick.
Has anyone Done time slips on a track with and with out a wing. (and im not talking about drag racing...)
I was talking about after market GT wings used on pro drift cars jgtc every type of professional racing.
Thank you stick.
Has anyone Done time slips on a track with and with out a wing. (and im not talking about drag racing...)
12-05-2007, 05:20 PM
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Im not talking about a factory wing...
I was talking about after market GT wings used on pro drift cars jgtc every type of professional racing.
Thank you stick.
Has anyone Done time slips on a track with and with out a wing. (and im not talking about drag racing...)
I was talking about after market GT wings used on pro drift cars jgtc every type of professional racing.
Thank you stick.
Has anyone Done time slips on a track with and with out a wing. (and im not talking about drag racing...)
What kind of wing? How much downforce created? What type of balancing aero on the front? etc etc etc...those are just a couple of the variables that would have a big impact on the effect of the wing on your "time slips".
But, if you have a totally stock car, at stock ride height, on stock springs/shocks, and you stick a big wing on the back, in all likelihood you'll be much slower on any road course, because of increased drag hurting straight line speed and the unweighting effect on the front end lessening grip of the steered wheels and hurting corner speed.
I would say the three pounds the stock wing weighs adds more down-force than any aero effect it may have. 
12-06-2007, 08:13 AM
#13
Tony says, RX8s are GREAT
seriously, for a gt wing to be benificial.. you will either be freeway racing and or doing laps on tracks like laguna seca or california speedway... autox its useless..
the streets, its for looks.. for it to work they way its ment to.. youll be breaking the speed limit everywhere you go
the streets, its for looks.. for it to work they way its ment to.. youll be breaking the speed limit everywhere you go
12-06-2007, 08:17 AM
#14
Tony says, RX8s are GREAT
and about the factory spoiler working.. they dont engineer it for ONLY downforce, its also made to reduce drag by affecting the airflow leaving the back of the car..
pull up some vids on youtube and airplane wings are good examples of what im talking about
if you want something in between the factory wing and gt wing... get the ings trunk spoiler.. if i had the whole kit and 19inch te-37s ..id get it..
but seriously.... the factory kit is good enough
pull up some vids on youtube and airplane wings are good examples of what im talking about
if you want something in between the factory wing and gt wing... get the ings trunk spoiler.. if i had the whole kit and 19inch te-37s ..id get it..
but seriously.... the factory kit is good enough
12-06-2007, 03:10 PM
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Thanks for the input!
My question was about using the wing for track day events not for street. I understand the comment about putting a gt wing on a stock car.
More so i was trying to find out if anyone on the forums was running a gt wing for track events. And if there was actually a noticeable difference.
From what i gather the people who are actually tacking their car hard are not running with one.
My question was about using the wing for track day events not for street. I understand the comment about putting a gt wing on a stock car.
More so i was trying to find out if anyone on the forums was running a gt wing for track events. And if there was actually a noticeable difference.
From what i gather the people who are actually tacking their car hard are not running with one.
12-07-2007, 07:51 AM
#16
Tony says, RX8s are GREAT
can you define track events please..
if you mean track events as in autocross... you dont need it
if you mean track events as in laguna seca/california speedway events.. it will help with downforce but you will have drag as a result..
youll need to match the front with an airdamn to keep the car level... if you have too much downforce in the back.. your front end will become lighter and pitch up a very very very small angle... but it will be enough to where the fatory splash gaurd (under the front behind the bumper) may start to try and push the front up by riding on the front turbulence... with a front airdam/splitter you should be ok and deflect the air from pushing the front up as your wing pushes the back down..
everything you want to know is in gran turismo... try gt4 for ps2 and start messin with the downforce ratios from front to rear, you can see if you will need it or not and you will see that :one, it wont do anything ......or two, it may actually hurt stability at high speeds if not evenly matched...
sorry if my words might be jumbled or confusing, but i hope it helps
ohh yeah.. and also at high speeds air pressure builds up in the engine bay because it goes in the front but is fighting its self to get displaced back out...
you can buy a vented hood... or put a spacer on your back hood hinges and pitch the rear of the hood up to relieve under hood presure and turbulence and also you can get the hot air out..
good luck... ben
if you mean track events as in autocross... you dont need it
if you mean track events as in laguna seca/california speedway events.. it will help with downforce but you will have drag as a result..
youll need to match the front with an airdamn to keep the car level... if you have too much downforce in the back.. your front end will become lighter and pitch up a very very very small angle... but it will be enough to where the fatory splash gaurd (under the front behind the bumper) may start to try and push the front up by riding on the front turbulence... with a front airdam/splitter you should be ok and deflect the air from pushing the front up as your wing pushes the back down..
everything you want to know is in gran turismo... try gt4 for ps2 and start messin with the downforce ratios from front to rear, you can see if you will need it or not and you will see that :one, it wont do anything ......or two, it may actually hurt stability at high speeds if not evenly matched...
sorry if my words might be jumbled or confusing, but i hope it helps
ohh yeah.. and also at high speeds air pressure builds up in the engine bay because it goes in the front but is fighting its self to get displaced back out...
you can buy a vented hood... or put a spacer on your back hood hinges and pitch the rear of the hood up to relieve under hood presure and turbulence and also you can get the hot air out..
good luck... ben
Last edited by Benjamz; 12-07-2007 at 07:58 AM.
12-07-2007, 08:02 AM
#17
Tony says, RX8s are GREAT
because of increased drag hurting straight line speed and the unweighting effect on the front end lessening grip of the steered wheels and hurting corner speed. ---- mwood
well said. mwood....... i would add a rear diffuser before i add a gt wing...hehehe
well said. mwood....... i would add a rear diffuser before i add a gt wing...hehehe
12-14-2007, 04:53 PM
#18
Do a search. This has been discussed.
Someone even presented an article from Mazda that shows the wing helps.
The MS wing even helps more, but not by much.
Now, lets discuss MPG.
Someone even presented an article from Mazda that shows the wing helps.
The MS wing even helps more, but not by much.
Now, lets discuss MPG.
12-15-2007, 07:49 PM
#19
our Ga group tracks a lot--currently hold TTD records at road atlanta and Roebling ROad. We have oem exteriors. In speaking with Roar Racing and other groups the MazdaSpeed wing is the only one that has any real benefit and that is at over 80mph. A front lip--good designed one would be of more help overall.
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12-15-2007, 09:13 PM
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sorry i haven't checked this one for awhile. i was caught up somewhere
gt wing will help with the downforce. depending on the angle and design, even at normal cruising highway speeds.
they definitely work. go check at the rx7club.com if you want more concrete info.
mazdaspeed one is also functional not as much as the gt but more pleasing to the eyes. i'm also one of the few that tend to think even our stock rear spoiler is a functional one even at tight tracks... then again i may be disillusioned on that one.
just check out f1 rear spoilers... if you look at them from the front, they almost look like a water dam. it's about the angle & speed.. not what spoiler type you have or how fast you go with a particular model.
gt wing will help with the downforce. depending on the angle and design, even at normal cruising highway speeds.
they definitely work. go check at the rx7club.com if you want more concrete info.
mazdaspeed one is also functional not as much as the gt but more pleasing to the eyes. i'm also one of the few that tend to think even our stock rear spoiler is a functional one even at tight tracks... then again i may be disillusioned on that one.
just check out f1 rear spoilers... if you look at them from the front, they almost look like a water dam. it's about the angle & speed.. not what spoiler type you have or how fast you go with a particular model.
12-16-2007, 11:22 AM
#21
Totally agree stick and you are right in that the aero package is the key not just a wing.
You probably will not notice much of a difference on the track unless you have enough engine/car mods to benefit from it.
The stock RX8 is not tractioned challanged coming out of a turn, high speed stability is good oem, (below 130mph), great brakes---so a wing on a stock RX 8 is not going to really change a lot. for most tracks that are in my area(georgia).
oscd
You probably will not notice much of a difference on the track unless you have enough engine/car mods to benefit from it.
The stock RX8 is not tractioned challanged coming out of a turn, high speed stability is good oem, (below 130mph), great brakes---so a wing on a stock RX 8 is not going to really change a lot. for most tracks that are in my area(georgia).
oscd
12-17-2007, 10:29 AM
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In KONI Challenge we are only allowed the MS wing, which only helps negate rear lift at speed. The Rolex GT RX-8 must use the spec Crawford wing and that one does actually provide true downforce at speed, as well as increased adjustability both with angle of attack settings as well as different size "wickers". The problem with the GT wing is that for it to be truly effective, you'd have to cut up your trunk lid and find a nice place to secure the wing so that the downforce is applied directly to the chassis and not wasted in deflection of bodywork, compression of weatherstripping, etc. which would also change the angle of attack of the wing under load.
As far as "simple" aero improvements through bodywork - the MS nose will give you a much more significant aero benefit.
As far as "simple" aero improvements through bodywork - the MS nose will give you a much more significant aero benefit.
01-31-2009, 01:02 PM
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I went to Buttonwillow a couple of weekends ago. Emilio, owner of 949 Racing I think, ran his S2000 4 seconds faster with a APR GTC-300 wing (he trunk swapped to see how it would affect his lap times).
So that pretty much changed my opinion of GT wings in general...they're ugly as sin but they work man!
So that pretty much changed my opinion of GT wings in general...they're ugly as sin but they work man!
02-01-2009, 02:18 AM
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The Mazdaspeed wing generates about 200 lbs of downforce at 100 mph in the steepest position. A front splitter will be a big improvement, as is a rear diffuser. Its crucial to get the splitter low to the ground, which can be difficult on a street-driven car. Other things that will help are retaining underbody tray or adding new ones to keep the bottom of the car as smooth as possible. Side-skirts can help some. Biggest improvements will come from a large front splitter and a very large, high rear wing.
I believe its from the MS wing instructions. I think the figure was for the MS front bumper, rear diffuser, side-skirts, and wing altogether.
The steepest position of the MS wing is 15 degrees. I suppose you could calculate it if you knew the dimensions of the wing with this equation:
F = 1/2 * span * cord * angle * coeff * ro * v^2
ro is air density, 1.225 at 15 degrees C. V is the speed of the car in m/s.
The steepest position of the MS wing is 15 degrees. I suppose you could calculate it if you knew the dimensions of the wing with this equation:
F = 1/2 * span * cord * angle * coeff * ro * v^2
ro is air density, 1.225 at 15 degrees C. V is the speed of the car in m/s.
As a reality check, the wing on the 2004 STi is said to generate 90 kg of downforce at 100 kph, that would be nearly 200 lbs at 62 mph.
I tend to leave my MS wing at about 5 degrees or so, because it looks good like that, and produces less drag and better visibility. I've increased the angle at the track and noticed a slight difference on the straight. It was slightly slower to accelerate at high speeds, but I could also feel the rear suspension gradually compress, as if someone had jumped in the back seat.
Also, remember any amount of net downforce is a good thing as most cars will generate several hundred pounds of LIFT at high speeds, so even a net downforce of 50 lbs is beneficial. Anyone remember seeing that FC get airborne at the salt flats in a high-speed run? Or that LMP car get flipped around at Le Mans?
I tend to leave my MS wing at about 5 degrees or so, because it looks good like that, and produces less drag and better visibility. I've increased the angle at the track and noticed a slight difference on the straight. It was slightly slower to accelerate at high speeds, but I could also feel the rear suspension gradually compress, as if someone had jumped in the back seat.
Also, remember any amount of net downforce is a good thing as most cars will generate several hundred pounds of LIFT at high speeds, so even a net downforce of 50 lbs is beneficial. Anyone remember seeing that FC get airborne at the salt flats in a high-speed run? Or that LMP car get flipped around at Le Mans?
Last edited by chiketkd; 02-01-2009 at 02:22 AM.