olddragger

iTrader: (3)

I hope all know WHO Eric Meyer is here? Believe you me this man does not assume anything. He accepts subjective data only when there is no other available.
We are very fortunate to have his input on this issue.
I have tracked my DD car for a few thousand miles. No wing, no MS kit--its a "sleeper" car. At over 130mph the front end does feel like it is getting a little light and I appreciate the validation Eric provided. That amount of lift is surprising with the ms front he is running. Makes you wonder about the need for more underpaneling(like the 09 models?)and or diffuser.
Once again forget the wing? Think "car" instead.
It would be better if we could just roll the windows up
olddragger

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

Did he say the stock nose lifts or the MS nose lifts?

tiltmode43

iTrader: (15)

Funnily enough, I am none of the above mentioned. I drive a stock body rx8 with no rear spoiler, I don't really have a giant wing. Seems you started writing with a bit of a misconception and ran with it.

My post was entirely a joke and FYI, the reason I stated the thread as having "good information" is that there is a clear argument on both sides - aka because of posters like you. Anyone searching and wondering the effectiveness of a giant wing can read here and discriminate themselves. IMHO that is quite informational compared to typical cluttered, trashed up forum threads. Ironically, my post was a bit of trash/humor.

Forum fools are and always will be there. Anyone using a forum for solidified facts is a bit foolish, it all must be taken with a grain of salt. Plenty of morons running about, everywhere.

BTW, no offense taken

kinchu007

iTrader: (1)

alignment settings:
(FL, FR, RL, RR)
corner weight --> 844, 795, 749, 708
spring weight --> 280, 280, 168, 168
toe --> 0, 0, 1/16 in, 1/16 in
camber --> -1.91, -1.87, -1.91, -1.86
caster --> 6.18, 6.24

tire type:
Falken Azenis RT-615 275/35R18

tire pressures:
39 front
38 rear

sway bar settings:
middle setting front
soft setting rear

my best assessment is that understeer occurs on mid-to-low speed off-camber uphill turns (at WSIR)

i've been doing HPDE since I was 20, so 7 years now...started with WRX, went to STi, now RX8...I average about 3 events a year (although this year planning on 11 believe it or not)

links to Buttonwillow videos:
part 1 http://picasaweb.google.com/filip.cr...22258845599634
part 2 http://picasaweb.google.com/filip.cr...50138189055522

all my stuff on Picasa is public so you can find more vids on that day

appreciate yout time and advice,
Fil

EricMeyer

At what time stamp on your videos is the problem occuring?

Thanks

kinchu007

iTrader: (1)

I don't have vids of WSIR, where it occured...the vids I linked you to are Buttonwillow.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

dude you are running a -1.19 camber up front? Or am I reading wrong and you are set up for mainly left handed turns?
Those are cold air pressures?
total weight 3096 with driver and gas? dang good for a dd car!
OD

kinchu007

iTrader: (1)

oops, typo...-1.91

EricMeyer

A few questions:

-You don't run your car at a really low ride height do you?
-Have you checked any spring interference in the rear (is is possible your springs are binding?)
-Does the problem happen alot more in right or left hand turns?
-Do the symptoms reduce if you super late apex?
-Does the usteer occur AS SOON AS you apply throttle?

Please share more about WHEN and WHERE the problem occurs. I think I hear you saying that it occurs on certain TYPES of corners. Pls advise.

We will get it figured out. One of the typical problems with adding all the fun stuff is you need to be very good at assessing WHAT and WHERE the symtoms are occuring (which new drivers--not you---have a hard time doing). The second is trying stuff. Trying stuff is where the fun and learning is. This can be hard to do at the track sometimes making it appear impossible for people to even try.

There is nothing you can do to your car that someone can't undo.

kinchu007

iTrader: (1)

I'm conscious about overlowering, so, no I don't think I have the control arms at weird angles due to that. Please look at the pics attached to assess the ride height.

To check if coil bind is occuring (totally possible given how soft these springs are), should I just see if paint is rubbed off or chipped?

At WSIR it happened on left hand turns more than right hand.

No, the symptoms did not reduce AT ALL when super late apex. Same exact thing, almost dropped two tires once because of that.

Yes, pretty much as soon as I start to apply the throttle to come out of the turn it starts floating wide.

Thanks again,
Fil

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

what shocks are you running?
repeat those are cold pressures--lowering the pressure doesnt help?
I have never started that high.
OD

kinchu007

iTrader: (1)

I am using TEIN CS coilovers...similar construction to TEIN Flex but valved and sprung for higher comfort, so less stiff.

The pressures I listed are hot pressures, not cold...i check them at the end of every session at the track and adjust accordingly.

-Fil



Here's a pic of the coilovers:

EricMeyer

Here's my guess. Total guess with zero data. Don't shoot the cook.

Shock and spring package are too soft and your issue is occuring during longitudinal weight transition. It is possible you have enouch LATERAL grip however here is my guess:

Under braking you are getting big time weight transfer to the front. When you go to full power this weight transfers pretty big time to the rear which makes the front light which is why you're getting U-Steer. Depending on your available shock settings, SLOW the weight transfer to the rear down. Crank it down all the way. Zero rebound in the front, Full compression in the rear. If your shocks are still too soft then you're getting into the spring rates. If you're springs rates are too low in the rear, you may be coil binding on throttle (remember that weight transfer thing?) and you'll go to super quick to Over-steer.

Jack up the left or right side of your car to simulate body roll. Crawl under the rear and peak at your springs. If the bind (or you run out of shock travel) the car typically goes to Oversteer on power during corner exit and/or full power with a little steering wheel input.

Measure, measure, measure.

Your ride height is fine. What your ride height is doing when in roll would be interesting to know.

Let us know. This is a valuable thread.

Eric

Swerve76

I'm really glad to have seen this thread as I am preparing my car for a time attack event that is coming up locally and was wondering whether to get a GT Wing or not. Having read some of your responses (Eric), it seems like the front splitters, ss and rear diffusers were built specifically by RE with generating downforce in mind.

http://www.re-amemiya.co.jp/commodit...2&pid=7f61b8c3

Somehow I cant link the pics. Pls click on RX8 and then the first option to the top left of your screen after.

See part number 16, 20 and 21.

Is this generally along the lines of what you have been talking about? Thanks for any input in advance.

M

EricMeyer

So is that the DSC or whatever they call it connected to the rear swaybar? We buy our donor cars with as few of the available gadgets on them as possible. I wonder if that actuator is activating and throwing a monkey wrench into the mix.

Any idea of the spring rates which came with the shocks?

EricMeyer

What is your driving skill level and what is it that you're hoping the wing will do that your car currently is unable to do?

kinchu007

iTrader: (1)

You know i'm not sure what that thing is for...I assumed it was for DSC, but the guys at Tripoint said it was for something else, don't remember what. I'm sure someone on here knows???

No idea what the shock rates are.

secret8gent

not the level sensor, afaik, that's limited to headlight adjustments only.

kinchu007

iTrader: (1)

that's what it was...the headlight leveling system...now i remember heh