For years I had heard guys speak of driving "momentum" style- especially Miata guys. I always had a hard time picturing what they meant, not having any karting experience and always having driven a fairly well powered car, point and shoot style.

So, over the past year, I've been pondering around in the RX-8, always dropping down too low a gear for a turn, late apexing most turns, in other words- shedding too much speed. My braking was deep enough to catch people, my line was smooth, footwork polished, yet I knew I was not driving this car correctly (no torque available to track out powerfully).

So, last weekend at Sebring, I asked a friend of mine (we attended the same Skip Barber school and he went on to race with Skip in their series, while I went to HPDE's in my street cars, as my own race car has been sidelined for the past few years) to sit with me. Besides racing Skippy cars, he also tracks an S2000 powered Miata (built it himself, and laps Sebring at 2:31 in it).

His comments were a complete epiphany of what momentum driving is all about. In many mid-speed turns which I would drop to 2nd for searching power band, he had me hold 3rd, while turning in much sooner, getting on the throttle much sooner, and carrying much more speed through the turn, at a much lower engine RPM which I was used to.

After a couple laps with him, I was passing cars which had passed me. It was amazing. I was finally driving with momentum! Very smoothly!

As for the car setup, I finally tracked the car with Konis (50% front, 25% rear) and H-tech springs on stock sway bars and new S-03's on the wheels and found that the car is perfect in what I was looking for - a tightened up version of the stock feel. No more tail stepping out while trail braking. Crisper turn-in. Yet, the suspension was soft enough to negotiate Sebring's bumps with much less rebound than stock. Also, daily driving comfort has not suffered one bit, as well as ground clearance being very usable to get through curb cuts and driveways.

Anyhow, this may not be news to most people here, but I've finally found the momentum groove which had been eluding me. Lol.

Cheers.

 

Hey SouthFL, are you signed up for Sebring in Nov with Chin? Still debating wether to go though since I'm already signed up for Roebling Road the following Friday. Two track days in one week... is that a lot?

I was at Sebring a couple weeks ago with Chin and it's a great car. Not a lot of oomph coming out of corners though so you definately have to keep corner speed up. I'm used to it since I have only owned lower torque/hp cars. Also autox a Miata so I try not to use the brakes too much

 

I'll be there in Nov. with Chin. Two tracks in a week however, is a bit much for me

Yes, along with the increased momentum, the car also gripped more than I thought it was capable of (partly, as result of carrying the speed), so I didn't find myself running out of road when tracking out as much as I thought I would have given that I was turning in much sooner.
I'm telling you, this may be second nature to many of you, but for someone experiencing it for the first time, it was really eye opening.

 

These are my amateurish track notes (this worked for me):

 

Good post, congrads.

 

Your notes are pretty much what I do. I don't get into 5th gear going toward 17 though. Then again, I usually don't try to push it too hard towards that corner. It's pretty wide open there and it can be easy to get into the marbles

Turn 1 can be crazy fast and I look for the cone on top of the fence.

I had fuel starvation once between turn 6 and 7 last time. The car had a little under 1/2 tank. I guess I'll have to keep it above 1/2 tank. You ever had any issues?

I think I saw a Miata with what looked like an S2000 engine. Maybe that was your friend. Also saw an S2000 with a huge blower. Unfortunately it was being towed through the pits at the end of the day. Hope he didn't blow the motor...

 

Good stuff.

I ran a vintage formula vee (57hp) for two years in the mid 90's and then did a year in a vintage formula ford (about 115hp) ride I was given...all on treaded, vintage spec race rubber. It was probably the best training possible for learning to minimize scrub, carry speed and maintain momentum. As you said, in lower powered cars, an apex earlier than might be "intuitive" still allows the throttle to be picked up early.

The only thing I would add is that, at a certain point, there exists a trade off between the line which allows the greatest mid corner speed and the line which is shortest...basic math. There was a good article in SportsCar regarding that relationship, I think last year.

 

I was going down to 2nd at T3, T10 and T13 prior to the instruction. Now I stay in 3rd, as the notes mention- that's where the bulk of the "momentum" zones were learned.
I've also had fuel starvation, but with only 1/4 tank.
As for my friend, yes he was there that day we were at Sebring. I don't know if his Miata was running yet, but yes, he was helping out the guy with the supercharged S2000 that was having issues.

 

Those are some great points, SouthFL. part of it comes from having to 'trust' the cars limits, which for us amateurs is often tough to do, hence the preference for very late apexes.
I recall in Ross Bentley's "Speed Secrets", he broke down basic cornering into 4 phases: Braking Zone, turn in/entry zone, mid-corner zone, and Exit zone. he said that the 2nd phase is the toughest to master, and it is in this area where the 'greats' are separated from the merely 'good' racers.

 

A lot of driving schools, and driving instructors as well, emphasize techniques designed to keep you from crashing their car, or your car with them in it, rather than how to get around the track as fast as possible.

My basic theory is to get to the track-out point as soon as possible and be going as fast as possible at that point without running out of track. How you balance those two against each other depends mostly on how long the straight after track-out is. You work backward from track-out, sometimes through a couple of turns; the kind of car you're driving and its capabilities determine what solution works best. Some corners on some tracks have multiple lines that are equally fast.

If a car doesn't corner very well but has a lot of power, you'll emphasize getting turned and pointed out of the turn so you can get on the throttle sooner.

If you can carry a lot of mid-corner speed, but don't have a lot of acceleration available, you'll take a different path through the corner, because the speed you carry through the turn becomes the speed you have at track-out.

It's hard to mix controls with maximum braking and downshifting at the same time. Upshifting takes time that you're coasting, not accelerating, so sometimes just holding a gear and being ready to get on the throttle as soon as possible is the fast way. It also gives you less to pay attention to. If you work on the "dollar of concentration" theory that Keith Code teaches motorcyclists, staying in one gear gives you back focus for other aspects of driving, which may help you do other things better that make you go faster.

I haven't driven Sebring, the above is just general from tracks here in the Southwest.

One of the clearest examples I can think of for the compromises of big-hp vs. low-hp cars is how you handle the 4-5-6 complex at Willow Springs.



You're going down a steep hill from 4 to 5, and then back up over a rise on 6 and getting light again as you track out. If you haven't been there, you can get a half-arsed sense of it from Google Earth. The goal, as stated, is to be going as fast as possible at track-out of 6 for the looooong drag race through 7 (not really a turn) and 8 (many cars take 8 flat) until the braking window for 9. This is one of the key points of this track, because the speed you're able to build for all that time depends completely on your speed at the exit of 6. The same is true at the exit of 9; the front straight is long.

In something really powerful, like a Viper, you'll compromise 5 with a super-late exit bringing you out to the left of the track to make 6 as straight as possible and let you get on the throttle as early as possible without running out of track on the exit of 6, which is far enough past 5 that you've gained a lot of speed already.

In a car with less acceleration, you won't be going as fast at the track-out from 6, so you don't have to be pointed as straight, and you can work on getting there a little faster. So you take an earlier apex on 5 to carry as much speed as you can through it, and aren't as far to the left going into 6. You don't have to have as much patience; you can and should get on the throttle earlier. You won't have the speed of the faster car by track-out, so you will be able to hold a smaller radius to stay on the track. With a car like an RX-8, you probably won't use all the track on track-out from 6.

The difference in line carries all the way back to how you enter 5, which affects how you get from the exit of 4 to the entrance of 5.

This stuff is way more fun for dorks like me than drag racing. And I think I drive a little better than I mouse.

 

I'd love to try Formula Vee for a year.

 

Points well taken, and lol.
T13 sets up your speed all the way through T16, then the long back straight at Sebring- differently in setup than WS, but with the same net result.

 

Man, I wish Grand Am ran at Sebring.... I love and miss that track!!!

 

Hey CF...looks like you're doing well with the Speedsource team this year, good on ya, mate
tigerdrvr

 

Thanks tigerdrvr!

Our season just ended a little over a week ago at VIR. We didn't get the result we were looking for in that race (ran a strong top 5 during the first 3 hours, but had a tire failure/suspension damage issue mid-race that dropped us several laps back) yet were still able to finish and collect enough points to earn third in Koni Challenge ST Driver Championship and Team Championship as well. I'll be heading to Las Vegas in a little over a week's time for the Championship Awards Banquet which will be a nice way to conclude a long & successful season.

How's your season going this year?

Competing in RX-8's I guess we know all about momentum, eh?

 

You really stepped it up this year, dood. That's awesome. You've come far, fast! Are you going back to Grand Am next year with Speedsource?

The autocross season was a real mixed bag, ultimately disappointing. At a National level, I had quickest time on at least one day at a number of events, but never put together two days of consistent, fast times...so, my best finish was second at the Atwater National Tour to our class National champ, Jason aka ULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOSE. I'm going to take away the positive, which is the basic speed has been there and I can work on consistency, rather than the negative, which is I didn't really accomplish what I wanted to...
Mike

 

Our cars are AMAZING, once driven properly. The same thing happened to me, I used to drive like how you described, then I let a friend with an S2000 drive our car and man he passed a regular C6 vette, evo, and others. I couldn't believe it, literally everywhere except one corner he was at full throttle going all it, topping 3rd only place he was at a higher gear was at the straight. Then I drove the 8 again and man what a lap!

 

Sounds like you're being a bit tough on yourself, but I guess it's in our nature. For me, I really wanted to win one... we came close on a few ocassions, but ultimately 2nd was our best result this year. Like you said, we need to take away the positive and look towards the future.

Speaking of which.... I'm currently working with the team on putting together a plan for next year. Whatever I end up doing next year I fully expect it to be with SpeedSource and Mazdaspeed; without the help of Sylvain Tremblay and the team as well as Steve Sanders and John Doonan of Mazdaspeed & Mazda I couldn't have accomplished what we did this year. Above all else I'm proud to be associated with such great people and organizations... oh and I'm equally proud to help carry the flag for our little RX-8

 

good post southFL, you gave me some thinking points to nibble on on this boring thursday afternoon lol

 

Learning to love the track myself.
I presume you all will be at Daytona to kick off next year? I've also driven the 24 hr course there.

 

I would guess maintaining momentum on the banking at Daytona, in a car as stable and relatively low powered as the '8, won't be an issue...put your foot to the floor and try not to bend the pedal through "over exertion"!

 

Daytona is for sure the first thing on our list. I should have a pretty solid idea of what lies ahead for '08 by early November. Stay tuned!

Once on the banking you could train a monkey to go fast in the RX-8.... it's how you enter the banking that means everything at Daytona in terms of laptimes. Screw up either the left hander coming back to NASCAR turn 2 -or to an even greater extent- screw up the bus stop chicane onto NASCAR 3-4 and you've effectively thrown away the entire lap.

 

I wouldn't know, as I drove the open wheeled Skippy car there. That car sure moved around alot on the banking (let alone the uplift effect on my helmet) and that was pretty unnerving. The little mirrors rattled so much, you couldn't tell who was coming up behind you. Lol. Add the sand being blown on to the track after NASCAR 4 (along with the resulting sandblasted helmet visor) and I really wonder how I didn't crash there
Bus stop chicane is a load of fun.
Turn 1 is very tricky. Go too far to the right and the camber of the road throws you off.

 

What I wouldn't give to experience these things. High speed is in my blood through fighter jet relatives and anscestors, and it has never been about the straight for me. Its the turns and precision required.

For someone with a day job, mortgage, wife, etc... what type of path might I look for/follow to be able to experience amatuer road courses once or twice a year?

I just got my 8 2 weeks ago, and it is a real blast to drive and turn, but i know I am no where near the limits it can go, or should go on the streets. This is the first car forum I have been a part of that has such a large chunk of people who take their cars to road courses on a regular basis, or even drive for teams.

Leaves me dreamy and jealous...

 

www.nasaproracing.com
^
Look in the HPDE section under each region. HPDE stands for High Performance Driver Education (or Event, depending on who you talk to).

If you're on the east coast or in the midwest, see www.chinmotorsports.com

Many other clubs/programs exist as well. Most, if not all, offer instruction and classroom talk for beginners and the atmosphere is usually very welcoming.