bentiac

iTrader: (1)

I was autocrossing yesterday and ran DSC and Traction off all day except for one run where I had DSC off Traction On. The only run I spun out was with this setting. Same thing happened to my co-driver, one run with this setting and he spun out. I have ran 4 events in the RX8 so far and haven't had any problems with DSC and Traction both fully on or both fully off.

To add to this, when I crashed my NC miata I had DSC off and Traction On too.

Is there a trend here? and if so can anyone explain it?

Razz1

It's your driving skills.

It's a coincedence.

Do you know what Traction Control is?

We don't have enough torque to spin the tires without dropping the clutch.

If your Autocrossing and have the the DSC on, your not driving fast enough.

DSC will make you go into limp mode.

bentiac

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the response but perhaps it's your lack of driving experience in snow and slush that results in such a senseless answer.

With the low traction we had yesterday, being in the limp mode or not was not making a difference but that wasn't really my question.

Razz1

You don't autocross in snow..right?

bentiac

iTrader: (1)

LOL, typical Californian thinking

Most of the snow was melt but there was some slush left. Enough to make a stock AE86 spin out on power.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

I am sorry mate but you are making Canadians look bad here. You are not auto-crossing in actual snow, are you?

You are not driving a 458 with some intelligent traction control and 400hp per ton but a car with 170 bhp [EDIT WHP not BHP] - - EVERYTHING OFF and End Of Story.

P.S

Even if you are auto-crossing in the snow with your studded snow tires on, it still stays full off

And no it was not the settings that crashed your Miata -

bentiac

iTrader: (1)

First of all I don't have snow tires... just the crappy all seasons that the car came with. Secondly the Shinka is supposed to make 238 BHP (I haven't dyno'd it myself). And thirdly I did not ask for advise on whether to set things off or not. I asked a technical question and would appreciate an educated answer instead of random flames. Thanks.

StrokerAce

+1

You ran out of talent

bse50

+1 on wet\slug driving skills.
I have found the car to be unpredictable with the dsc\tsc on if there's snow or a lot of water. Let the wheels slide and adjust your driving accordingly.
Fighting with your rear brakes that endlessly try to lock the spinning wheel is a waste of time and brake pads.

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Do you like to drive Flat Out?

MagnusRacing

iTrader: (2)

Well... I too have found the RX-8 to be at its worst with the DSC off and Traction control on. I swear to you it just randomly spun me out in that setting when I first got the car - and I have a lot of racing experience. It was at the track and I was not yet familiar enough with the car to know that you have to hold the DSC button for several seconds to FULLY disable the system. The car REALLY did some strange things in that setting... much worse than if you just leave it fully on. I spoke to some other guys who race RX-8s and they said they had the same experience "The car will try to crash you in that setting" were the crew chief's words. My suggestion... either leave it fully on or fully off.

bentiac

iTrader: (1)

The only explanation I can think of is that TCS does not take into consideration your steering angle while DSC does. When DSC is on, you can countersteer and the system would take that into consideration but with DSC off and TCS on the car has no way of telling what the steering angle is and applies full brakes to the spinning tire; and if you are countersteering normally, it just doubles the effort... making you spin out.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Well, if TCS reduces power as it's first attempt to reduce wheel spin (not sure if that's true with the RX-8 but most implementations work that way) it's the equivalent of a lift.

We all know that lifting mid-corner can cause spins, particularly in the wet when the rear tires are spinning, even a little, and you are driving flat out. It's the classic RWD newbie mistake (which I made a few months into my ownership experience with my then brand-new '94 R package Miata).

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

As a side note, I will say that I have done many runs in my '04 with only a short press. This is what you end up with if you forget the long-press before the launch. I have to say it has never bitten me, and the system is far less intrusive than when it is fully enabled - I can still get a decent run in, but ultimately the best runs happen with the system fully disabled (of course).

Sometimes I think somebody at Mazda got the sequence wrong in the '04s. A short press does light up TCS in the dash, but my memory is that with a short press, I can still do long burnouts in the snow. That, plus the behavior while autocrossing with only a short press, leads me to believe that in the '04s, a short press disables the traction control but not stability control (which makes more sense to me).

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

FWIW, what you describe seems to be the sequence on my '06 as well...

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

I'm so happy I don't have either one of those joykillers in my '8.

PeteInLongBeach

According to the owners manual, a push of the DSC button fully disables the DSC/TCS together, as the TCS is an integral subfunction of the DSC. There is no mention of a "partial" disable or a "push and hold" for "full" disable. See pages 5-22 to 5-25 here:

https://www.mymazda.com/MusaWeb/pdf/...2006_RX8OM.pdf

This has been the subject of controversy in other threads, with one theory being that the "push & hold" only causes a system error with indicator light, disabling the DSC button until the next engine start, but resulting in no additional "full" disable functionality. See the following thread and others referenced within:

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/dynamic-stability-control-dsc-modes-63611/

Chad D.

iTrader: (19)

I agree.
I think it is just knowing the fact that some "driving correction system" is in place and when it doesn't work like expected you blame the feature.
Just drive with it off. The 8 has a short threshold because of the short wheel base.
I spun my car out twice in the first month I got it. Never again.

cBJr

I normally drive with the system fully off. The other day, I did a short press and was taking a sharp turn. I let the clutch out mid corner, already at max traction, and expected the back end to slide out. Instead, I felt the system brake the rear end to regain traction. Honestly, it surprised me so much I almost over corrected its correction, but I was in a wide open area.

fastlaneracing

You read to mutch, go out and drive your car instead with different settings to the DSC buttom. =)

burglar

In my experience ('04 sport) a short press disables everything. You can spin the rear tires or the entire car to your heart's content.

One exception: DSC will begin to intervene if the ABS system is activated, and stop intervening once ABS is not activated anymore. Found that one out by overcooking a few braking zones on the autocross course.

I never use a long press or "fault out," as I think that if I need ABS mid-turn I've already blown my run anyways.

bentiac

iTrader: (1)

On my car disabling TCS does not disable ABS... I prefer both off... both on is more predictable than half off to drive but would be slower.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

^You need to rear Eric Meye's comments about driving an RX-8 with no ABS. It's not a good combination.

Arrrrex-8

Yep, same here a short press disables both TSC and DSC.

burglar

I'm sorry, I should have clarified my post. A short press on mine disables both traction control and stability control, but not ABS.

And again, if ABS is activated with DSC off, it will still do it's DSC thang while the ABS system is working, and then revert to "off" once ABS is no longer pulsing.