Heel toe braking and left foot braking
11-18-2010, 01:16 PM
#28
Practicing with heel and toe shouldn't be much of a problem, it's a pretty easy technique in the end.
I have lost dozens of laps trying to learn how to properly do a left foot brake though. Finding the right turns and sensibility to take advantage of the weight transfer etc is tough for my stupid brain.
I have lost dozens of laps trying to learn how to properly do a left foot brake though. Finding the right turns and sensibility to take advantage of the weight transfer etc is tough for my stupid brain.
11-18-2010, 02:18 PM
#29
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no --no engine braking. rpms only jump approx 200-400 rpm on the downshift and i do wait until high rpms have dropped some before i start. I am downshifting while I am still braking
I will post a vid tonight when i was at road atlanta coming down the back straight and you can see and hear (somewhat) me downshifting from 6th to 3nd. From approx 140mph to about 70mph. Never blip the throttle.
I do have the 09 trans so the ratios are a little different.
Like I said people didnt understand this until they ride with me. Then they get it. Its a very smooth way of getting to the right gear.
It's easier on the synchros etc to go 6-5-4-3, than to go 6-3--rev matching or not.
I wouldnt do it from 3-2--i would rev match those. But the tracks I drive do not require any 2nd gear action.
And I repeat --if I didnt have the synchro saver-- i wouldnt do it as the gears have to be changed pretty solid.
OD
I will post a vid tonight when i was at road atlanta coming down the back straight and you can see and hear (somewhat) me downshifting from 6th to 3nd. From approx 140mph to about 70mph. Never blip the throttle.
I do have the 09 trans so the ratios are a little different.
Like I said people didnt understand this until they ride with me. Then they get it. Its a very smooth way of getting to the right gear.
It's easier on the synchros etc to go 6-5-4-3, than to go 6-3--rev matching or not.
I wouldnt do it from 3-2--i would rev match those. But the tracks I drive do not require any 2nd gear action.
And I repeat --if I didnt have the synchro saver-- i wouldnt do it as the gears have to be changed pretty solid.
OD
Left foot braking is mainly used to reduce the understeering effect.
11-18-2010, 05:00 PM
#30
My RX-8 came with the factory "metal pedals", which are actually just covers over the rubber pedals. I unscrewed the one from the accelerator and moved it over a half-hole closer to the brake pedal and screwed it back down, and this made heel-toe much easier. Probably easier to do than bending the brake pedal, and more room for "tweaking" the adjustment if you don't like it later.
++ on driving shoes
++ on driving shoes
11-18-2010, 07:08 PM
#33
http://contour.com/node/110235
watch this and you can maybe get a little better idea of what i am talking about. it was just a fun event.
OD
watch this and you can maybe get a little better idea of what i am talking about. it was just a fun event.
OD
You should just learn to do it the right way so that if you find yourself on a course with tighter turns or harder braking zones and you have to go down two gears quickly you won't end up with a massive clutch kick spinning you on entrance or exit.
11-18-2010, 08:37 PM
#34
Mu haha......
11-18-2010, 09:08 PM
#35
oh totally agree--on a tighter course you are absolutely right.
if you watch some of it to can tell where i do just that in turn 5 (left handed up the hill after the esses)---at times etc.
besides you dont let the clutch out fast when doing this--you feather it out.
I have at times let it out to fast before and I didnt like it, but i have it down pretty good now.
Its just another way of doing things. But, it does work well on fast long courses which are really what we run in the SE.
More *****? Come on down, get in the car and lets go for a ride?
JK dude. but you are welcome to set in the right seat anytime.
I wish video could show what is going on better---i need data overlay
OD
if you watch some of it to can tell where i do just that in turn 5 (left handed up the hill after the esses)---at times etc.
besides you dont let the clutch out fast when doing this--you feather it out.
I have at times let it out to fast before and I didnt like it, but i have it down pretty good now.
Its just another way of doing things. But, it does work well on fast long courses which are really what we run in the SE.
More *****? Come on down, get in the car and lets go for a ride?
JK dude. but you are welcome to set in the right seat anytime.I wish video could show what is going on better---i need data overlay
OD
11-18-2010, 09:10 PM
#36
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http://contour.com/node/110235
watch this and you can maybe get a little better idea of what i am talking about. it was just a fun event.
OD
watch this and you can maybe get a little better idea of what i am talking about. it was just a fun event.
OD
11-19-2010, 09:05 AM
#37
agreed that i am not perfect--and i think that is the time i missed a gear? If you have never done that then you are not driving hard enough???? Do you track?
besides dude that video was from just a little fun run with the bmwcca. nothing serious. If you notice also i was short shifting down the long hill (not the best thing to do if you are racing) and taking turn 1 in 5th gear at times.
sheesh
OD
besides dude that video was from just a little fun run with the bmwcca. nothing serious. If you notice also i was short shifting down the long hill (not the best thing to do if you are racing) and taking turn 1 in 5th gear at times.
sheesh
OD
11-19-2010, 11:42 AM
#38
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agreed that i am not perfect--and i think that is the time i missed a gear? If you have never done that then you are not driving hard enough???? Do you track?
besides dude that video was from just a little fun run with the bmwcca. nothing serious. If you notice also i was short shifting down the long hill (not the best thing to do if you are racing) and taking turn 1 in 5th gear at times.
sheesh
OD
besides dude that video was from just a little fun run with the bmwcca. nothing serious. If you notice also i was short shifting down the long hill (not the best thing to do if you are racing) and taking turn 1 in 5th gear at times.
sheesh
OD
11-19-2010, 12:24 PM
#40
I just like how you lean into every right-hander (and your passenger doesn't)! lol
Very enthusiastic. I find myself doing that at times.
While [c]K's comment might have been a bit acerbic, his point does stand - your shifting technique is absolutely wrong. You are allowing the engine to contribute to braking which is a no-no. You shouldn't allow the drive train to pull the motor up to matching revs.
Just as a side note - you might want to evaluate your hand position as well. Gloves might be a good idea to help reduce the death-grip a bit. Do you ever suffer soreness in your wrists or elbows after a track day? I did and gloves fixed that by causing my grip to become very light and oriented to my finger tips instead of my palms. Move your hands out to 9/3 instead of 10/2 and handle the wheel with the second knuckle (keeping the web of your palm away).
Very enthusiastic. I find myself doing that at times.
While [c]K's comment might have been a bit acerbic, his point does stand - your shifting technique is absolutely wrong. You are allowing the engine to contribute to braking which is a no-no. You shouldn't allow the drive train to pull the motor up to matching revs.
Just as a side note - you might want to evaluate your hand position as well. Gloves might be a good idea to help reduce the death-grip a bit. Do you ever suffer soreness in your wrists or elbows after a track day? I did and gloves fixed that by causing my grip to become very light and oriented to my finger tips instead of my palms. Move your hands out to 9/3 instead of 10/2 and handle the wheel with the second knuckle (keeping the web of your palm away).
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 11-19-2010 at 12:42 PM.
11-19-2010, 03:11 PM
#41
lol---yea i do lean--comes from years of riding fast around dirt roads in a 1958 oldsmobile.
I have been trying to do less of that--sometimes i am not even aware. Its strange. Maybe thats why I like left handed turns?
I dont have a tight grip--it may look that way,but actually I am very relaxed. Every straight--deep breath, check gauges and relax.
Hand position is a widely personnel thing it seems? I see people shuffle steering ( me too), I see people almost cross arms because they refuse to shuffle steer. ??? I will try to open up my hands a little more in my next event.
I probably need to post a vid in which i am taking the track a little more seriously? I will see what I can do 12/4 and 5 at Road Atlanta with NASA, 1st session will be DE 3/4 drivers and approx 70 cars on track:0--that ought to be fun. No slow cars in this group either.
OD
I have been trying to do less of that--sometimes i am not even aware. Its strange. Maybe thats why I like left handed turns?
I dont have a tight grip--it may look that way,but actually I am very relaxed. Every straight--deep breath, check gauges and relax.
Hand position is a widely personnel thing it seems? I see people shuffle steering ( me too), I see people almost cross arms because they refuse to shuffle steer. ??? I will try to open up my hands a little more in my next event.
I probably need to post a vid in which i am taking the track a little more seriously? I will see what I can do 12/4 and 5 at Road Atlanta with NASA, 1st session will be DE 3/4 drivers and approx 70 cars on track:0--that ought to be fun. No slow cars in this group either.
OD
11-19-2010, 03:16 PM
#42
There shouldn't be any turns where you would need to "shuffle". A 180° deflection of the wheel is a really, really tight, slow turn. Even in auto-x, the tightest I need to go is just about elbows touching.
11-19-2010, 04:19 PM
#43
Yes, it's ridiculous japanese ****, but Best Motoring has very good in-car videos.
This one has some footage from in an RX8.
http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/45377676
The pedal position in our cars is VERY good. Under hard braking, the brake is depressed such that it lines up perfectly for a side-of-the-foot blip. Beautiful!
This one has some footage from in an RX8.
http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/45377676
The pedal position in our cars is VERY good. Under hard braking, the brake is depressed such that it lines up perfectly for a side-of-the-foot blip. Beautiful!
11-19-2010, 06:16 PM
#45
Left foot braking is very useful for autocross. I do it, and don't bother with a heel-toe downshift, at low speed it is not a big deal. In road racing if you don't rev match you will end up backwards or breaking something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVhTnOrjgNE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVhTnOrjgNE
11-19-2010, 09:49 PM
#47
ok--point--when yall do rev match , do yall go from the gear you are in to the gear you need--skipping gears (if you need too)? Or do yall row through them all?
or do you double clutch it? Especially when going from a higher gear to a much lower gear? Oldtimers will recognize this tech.
OD
or do you double clutch it? Especially when going from a higher gear to a much lower gear? Oldtimers will recognize this tech.
OD
11-20-2010, 04:07 AM
#48
ok--point--when yall do rev match , do yall go from the gear you are in to the gear you need--skipping gears (if you need too)? Or do yall row through them all?
or do you double clutch it? Especially when going from a higher gear to a much lower gear? Oldtimers will recognize this tech.
OD
or do you double clutch it? Especially when going from a higher gear to a much lower gear? Oldtimers will recognize this tech.
OD
That should be the only way to do it in my opinion (which counts less than zero lol)
I also have the bad habit to brake late and hard, trailbrake at times but i'm thoroughly working on it.
11-20-2010, 10:34 AM
#49
ok--point--when yall do rev match , do yall go from the gear you are in to the gear you need--skipping gears (if you need too)? Or do yall row through them all?
or do you double clutch it? Especially when going from a higher gear to a much lower gear? Oldtimers will recognize this tech.
OD
or do you double clutch it? Especially when going from a higher gear to a much lower gear? Oldtimers will recognize this tech.
OD
