Help me understand Re-medy thermostat and earlier fan activation for track cars...
#26
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@ huff...
On the orifice, with a lower flow (Remedy is lower flow, not higher flow) I lost some driver side heat in the winter, like most of it. That was at 35 degrees F. I think I will be going with a a small ball valve, with a pin hole drilled through it to get a tiny bit of flow, then play with it in the winter.
If you do not have the orifice installed, you are losing a ton of cooling. My temps without it were 10 degrees higher than with it (IIR). Any water that flows through that hose does NOT go through the radiator.
On the orifice, with a lower flow (Remedy is lower flow, not higher flow) I lost some driver side heat in the winter, like most of it. That was at 35 degrees F. I think I will be going with a a small ball valve, with a pin hole drilled through it to get a tiny bit of flow, then play with it in the winter.
If you do not have the orifice installed, you are losing a ton of cooling. My temps without it were 10 degrees higher than with it (IIR). Any water that flows through that hose does NOT go through the radiator.
#27
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Originally Posted by Brettus
There is a temp sensor in the engine bay on s1s .... it's next to the maf sensor ![Wink](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
There is also the ambient temp sensor . Dunno if one of those triggers the cool down though.
![Wink](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
There is also the ambient temp sensor . Dunno if one of those triggers the cool down though.
This thread says that it's only on S2s.
I had a fan diagram of the S1. Can't seem to find it. It didn't mention anything about high engine compartment temps. I'll try to look for it once I'm home.
#28
Registered
Thread Starter
@ huff...
On the orifice, with a lower flow (Remedy is lower flow, not higher flow) I lost some driver side heat in the winter, like most of it. That was at 35 degrees F. I think I will be going with a a small ball valve, with a pin hole drilled through it to get a tiny bit of flow, then play with it in the winter.
If you do not have the orifice installed, you are losing a ton of cooling. My temps without it were 10 degrees higher than with it (IIR). Any water that flows through that hose does NOT go through the radiator.
On the orifice, with a lower flow (Remedy is lower flow, not higher flow) I lost some driver side heat in the winter, like most of it. That was at 35 degrees F. I think I will be going with a a small ball valve, with a pin hole drilled through it to get a tiny bit of flow, then play with it in the winter.
If you do not have the orifice installed, you are losing a ton of cooling. My temps without it were 10 degrees higher than with it (IIR). Any water that flows through that hose does NOT go through the radiator.
BTW, do you recall which way the taper on that brass orifice faces?
#29
Boosted Kiwi
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https://www.rx8club.com/series-ii-te...2-only-186066/
This thread says that it's only on S2s.
I had a fan diagram of the S1. Can't seem to find it. It didn't mention anything about high engine compartment temps. I'll try to look for it once I'm home.
This thread says that it's only on S2s.
I had a fan diagram of the S1. Can't seem to find it. It didn't mention anything about high engine compartment temps. I'll try to look for it once I'm home.
Last edited by Brettus; 07-19-2016 at 03:55 PM.
#32
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No but it has always done it, even before I messed with the fans settings VIA the Cobb. And if you start the car again and turn it off again the fans still run so I assume it is running purely off of some temperature reading. My FAL fans are just wired to the stock wiring. I have a FAL fan controller, I have been meaning to install that.
#33
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On a stock car, if the fans have gone into high speed only because the coolant temp went over 213.8F, they'll stay on for precisely 5 seconds after turning off the engine. It doesn't actually have to be above 213.8F for the fans to stay on. Say as you were pulling into your driveway the temp went over 213.8, and that triggered the fans to go into high speed, and say when you were turning off the car, the coolant temp was 208F. The fans are still on high speed because they won't go back to low speed until the temp drops to 206F. So if you turned off the car at 208F, they'l still run for 5 seconds. Basically, if you turn off the car WHILE the fans are on high speed, they'll run for 5 seconds after the engine is off. Doesn't ALWAYS have to be above 213.8F. Same story when they're on low speed. If the fans are on low while turning off the car, they'll run for 5 seconds. It's just that it's harder to hear. Now if the fans were on high (or low) because you were running the AC, and the coolant temps aren't over the fan trigger temps, they'll turn off immediately as you turn off the engine. That's how my car works.
The posts from 2004 are about the fans staying on for MINUTES. Sometimes even up to 30 minutes! And I think that is because the coolant temp was over 230F. Because "high engine compartment temps" was added to the After Cooling mode only in S2s.
So that means the only reason they stayed on longer than 5 seconds, was because the coolant temp was over 230F!
And that means almost brand new cars hit 230F with perfect cooling systems.
AND THAT MEANS 230F was REALLY considered to be normal by Mazda!
I mean cmon... They must have caught it while hot weather testing it...
The posts from 2004 are about the fans staying on for MINUTES. Sometimes even up to 30 minutes! And I think that is because the coolant temp was over 230F. Because "high engine compartment temps" was added to the After Cooling mode only in S2s.
So that means the only reason they stayed on longer than 5 seconds, was because the coolant temp was over 230F!
![SHOCKED](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/SHOCKED.gif)
And that means almost brand new cars hit 230F with perfect cooling systems.
AND THAT MEANS 230F was REALLY considered to be normal by Mazda!
![SHOCKED](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/SHOCKED.gif)
I mean cmon... They must have caught it while hot weather testing it...
![Wtf](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wtf.gif)
#34
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![TX](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/tx.jpg)
On a stock car, if the fans have gone into high speed only because the coolant temp went over 213.8F, they'll stay on for precisely 5 seconds after turning off the engine. It doesn't actually have to be above 213.8F for the fans to stay on. Say as you were pulling into your driveway the temp went over 213.8, and that triggered the fans to go into high speed, and say when you were turning off the car, the coolant temp was 208F. The fans are still on high speed because they won't go back to low speed until the temp drops to 206F. So if you turned off the car at 208F, they'l still run for 5 seconds. Basically, if you turn off the car WHILE the fans are on high speed, they'll run for 5 seconds after the engine is off. Doesn't ALWAYS have to be above 213.8F. Same story when they're on low speed. If the fans are on low while turning off the car, they'll run for 5 seconds. It's just that it's harder to hear. Now if the fans were on high (or low) because you were running the AC, and the coolant temps aren't over the fan trigger temps, they'll turn off immediately as you turn off the engine. That's how my car works.
The posts from 2004 are about the fans staying on for MINUTES. Sometimes even up to 30 minutes! And I think that is because the coolant temp was over 230F. Because "high engine compartment temps" was added to the After Cooling mode only in S2s.
So that means the only reason they stayed on longer than 5 seconds, was because the coolant temp was over 230F!
And that means almost brand new cars hit 230F with perfect cooling systems.
AND THAT MEANS 230F was REALLY considered to be normal by Mazda!
I mean cmon... They must have caught it while hot weather testing it...
![Wtf](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wtf.gif)
The posts from 2004 are about the fans staying on for MINUTES. Sometimes even up to 30 minutes! And I think that is because the coolant temp was over 230F. Because "high engine compartment temps" was added to the After Cooling mode only in S2s.
So that means the only reason they stayed on longer than 5 seconds, was because the coolant temp was over 230F!
![SHOCKED](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/SHOCKED.gif)
And that means almost brand new cars hit 230F with perfect cooling systems.
AND THAT MEANS 230F was REALLY considered to be normal by Mazda!
![SHOCKED](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/SHOCKED.gif)
I mean cmon... They must have caught it while hot weather testing it...
![Wtf](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wtf.gif)
According to the factory service manual, 243F is the limit before it's considered unsafe.
#35
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Yeah I remember you mentioning this multiple times all over the club.
Looks like 220F isn't harmless after all...
Someone should really change the "New and potential owners" thread. It clearly says that 220F is dangerous. IMO it's misleading people. Already misled a lot of people... including me.
Looks like 220F isn't harmless after all...
Someone should really change the "New and potential owners" thread. It clearly says that 220F is dangerous. IMO it's misleading people. Already misled a lot of people... including me.
#36
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@ Huff,
Sorry, do not know which way it goes. Is a PITA to put in and pull out. I think a ball valve is in my future. I have seen pictures of them back by the washer bottle. Most have a handle that can be removed. I plan on a small hole drilled through to keep coolant flowing, but at a very reduced rate.
Sorry, do not know which way it goes. Is a PITA to put in and pull out. I think a ball valve is in my future. I have seen pictures of them back by the washer bottle. Most have a handle that can be removed. I plan on a small hole drilled through to keep coolant flowing, but at a very reduced rate.
#37
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iTrader: (46)
![TX](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/tx.jpg)
Yeah I remember you mentioning this multiple times all over the club.
Looks like 220F isn't harmless after all...
Someone should really change the "New and potential owners" thread. It clearly says that 220F is dangerous. IMO it's misleading people. Already misled a lot of people... including me.
Looks like 220F isn't harmless after all...
Someone should really change the "New and potential owners" thread. It clearly says that 220F is dangerous. IMO it's misleading people. Already misled a lot of people... including me.
Well, to fair, there is not a lot of trust in Mazda. My builder, Rob at Pineapple Racing told me that he builds a good amount of Renesis engines and older 13B's for use in sand rail buggies and he says that what he has seen from them running in the desert at high RPM, is that any extended amount of time at 220F will cook oem coolant seals. He offers heavy duty coolant seals of his own and that is what I have in my engine. Most builders I have spoken too also think 220F is the beginning of the danger zone.
#38
Former Sponsor
What Mazda considers "acceptable" for street cars and what is actually ideal for an engine are not exactly one in the same. 243f is right at the point of catastrophic engine failure, especially under load. It may survive running around on the street, but it is weakening the water jacket seals as it occurs.
#39
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
Well, to fair, there is not a lot of trust in Mazda. My builder, Rob at Pineapple Racing told me that he builds a good amount of Renesis engines and older 13B's for use in sand rail buggies and he says that what he has seen from them running in the desert at high RPM, is that any extended amount of time at 220F will cook oem coolant seals. He offers heavy duty coolant seals of his own and that is what I have in my engine. Most builders I have spoken too also think 220F is the beginning of the danger zone.
![Dunno](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
#40
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While you might get away with 220F , running it there continuously is not optimal and introduces extra risk that is best avoided.
#42
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![TX](https://www.rx8club.com/images/icons/tx.jpg)
Yeah going past 220F and hanging out there are two different things and each 8 is different. But really we worry too much I think. Most other cars deal with higher temps in just normal driving conditions. My 335i's oil temps sit right at 240-250F in this heat (100F typically everyday) and my coolant at about 215F and that is normal. The fans on it and the electric water pump also run after the car is shut down until temps drop.
But this is why changing fluids is so important. Max temps are important but how fast your system can recover from those temps is more important.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 07-20-2016 at 05:19 PM.
#44
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
Yeah going past 220F and hanging out there are two different things and each 8 is different. But really we worry too much I think. Most other cars deal with higher temps in just normal driving conditions. My 335i's oil temps sit right at 240-250F in this heat (100F typically everyday) and my coolant at about 215F and that is normal. The fans on it and the electric water pump also run after the car is shut down until temps drop.
But this is why changing fluids is so important. Max temps are important but how fast your system can recover from those temps is more important.
But this is why changing fluids is so important. Max temps are important but how fast your system can recover from those temps is more important.
![Hahano](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/hahano.gif)
#45
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I agree about the 220F issue. Racing for an extended period over 220F does kill coolant seals. I've lost coolant seals twice on stock motors (original motor and new factory motor). But never on motors with the "upgraded" coolant seals that Pineapple and other builders often use. If rebuilding a race motor always use the upgraded coolant seals.
#46
I'm really concerned about temps after my first engine change (2010).
I've a remedy water pump, samco hoses since and tracking with Tamb at 75+F was 215+F on Wt and Ot on Prosport gauges, sometimes 230+.
Installed a modified right oil radiator and the Remedy thermostat : Tamb 65-70, the Cobb Ap said 195-200F (As the Prosport).
Gain? Maybe.
If the car is track used I don't think the fan modification is something interesting. Maybe removing a fan will be more effective.
In my opinion the question is not only to let the air in, but to evacuate too...
I was conducting some aero test on the bonnet surface, but I don't have the under-bonnet data yet.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I've a remedy water pump, samco hoses since and tracking with Tamb at 75+F was 215+F on Wt and Ot on Prosport gauges, sometimes 230+.
Installed a modified right oil radiator and the Remedy thermostat : Tamb 65-70, the Cobb Ap said 195-200F (As the Prosport).
Gain? Maybe.
If the car is track used I don't think the fan modification is something interesting. Maybe removing a fan will be more effective.
In my opinion the question is not only to let the air in, but to evacuate too...
I was conducting some aero test on the bonnet surface, but I don't have the under-bonnet data yet.
Maybe I'm wrong.
#47
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Thread Starter
@ Huff,
Sorry, do not know which way it goes. Is a PITA to put in and pull out. I think a ball valve is in my future. I have seen pictures of them back by the washer bottle. Most have a handle that can be removed. I plan on a small hole drilled through to keep coolant flowing, but at a very reduced rate.
Sorry, do not know which way it goes. Is a PITA to put in and pull out. I think a ball valve is in my future. I have seen pictures of them back by the washer bottle. Most have a handle that can be removed. I plan on a small hole drilled through to keep coolant flowing, but at a very reduced rate.
#48
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I bought the RE-Medy thermostat because it opens further, not because it opens sooner. My cooling system consists of a new Koyo OEM style radiator (bought right before they allowed larger rads in STX, doh!), RE-Medy thermostat and Evans Waterless coolant.
Evans coolant is known to raise the operating temperature a bit, but the boil over point is 375F, so there is essentially no chance of overheating or having localized boiling which is supposedly an issue on these engines.
With that being said, in 115F ambient temps, I did some 0-60 runs, drove in slow traffic speeds a bit and idled in front of my house for a while. I never saw operating temperatures over 210F, which I think is pretty good for being just about as hot out as anyone could expect. When it's 100-105 out, I still see cruising temps in the 17X-18X range.
So, I'm pretty happy with the cooling system at this point.
Evans coolant is known to raise the operating temperature a bit, but the boil over point is 375F, so there is essentially no chance of overheating or having localized boiling which is supposedly an issue on these engines.
With that being said, in 115F ambient temps, I did some 0-60 runs, drove in slow traffic speeds a bit and idled in front of my house for a while. I never saw operating temperatures over 210F, which I think is pretty good for being just about as hot out as anyone could expect. When it's 100-105 out, I still see cruising temps in the 17X-18X range.
So, I'm pretty happy with the cooling system at this point.