How hardcore with the brake pads?
10-21-2005, 11:56 AM
#28
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Sorry for the delay in responding; Carbotech XP8s are $158 for the fronts. If you mention RX8club.com in the Comments section of the order page, I'll ship them for free 
(site will calculate shipping, but I'll take it off behind the scenes). That does not apply to anything and everything, just for Carbotech pads for RX-8s through the end of the month.
The OEM brakes do surprisingly well at the track with nothing but better fluid. However, after a couple of track events most people realize that where they give up the most time around a track is under braking. Common for novice drivers to not realize just how late, hard and deep you can brake on track. Anyway, once you figure that out, you'll boil fluid, the pads will fade, and you'll very quickly be wishing for track pads and good fluid.
As an aside, we use ATE Superblue in our cars with no issues. I also sell Motul RBF600, which is one of the best fluids available, but in the RX-8 with its relatively large OEM brakes the ATE seems to be wholly adequate. $15 for a 1L can is pricier than some, but it's one of the better values regardless. And yes, ANY time you flush the brake fluid, go to a DOT 4 fluid. There's simply no reason not to. Motul RBF600 and ATE Blue both well exceed DOT 4 temp specifications.
If anyone wants a bit of basic technical information on all aspects of brakes, feel free to visit www.dpeweb.com and look over the three technical articles on the subject located in the upper-right hand corner of the page. Good basic info, and we also address some of the common myths about brakes and what you want out of an upgrade.
(site will calculate shipping, but I'll take it off behind the scenes). That does not apply to anything and everything, just for Carbotech pads for RX-8s through the end of the month. The OEM brakes do surprisingly well at the track with nothing but better fluid. However, after a couple of track events most people realize that where they give up the most time around a track is under braking. Common for novice drivers to not realize just how late, hard and deep you can brake on track. Anyway, once you figure that out, you'll boil fluid, the pads will fade, and you'll very quickly be wishing for track pads and good fluid.
As an aside, we use ATE Superblue in our cars with no issues. I also sell Motul RBF600, which is one of the best fluids available, but in the RX-8 with its relatively large OEM brakes the ATE seems to be wholly adequate. $15 for a 1L can is pricier than some, but it's one of the better values regardless. And yes, ANY time you flush the brake fluid, go to a DOT 4 fluid. There's simply no reason not to. Motul RBF600 and ATE Blue both well exceed DOT 4 temp specifications.
If anyone wants a bit of basic technical information on all aspects of brakes, feel free to visit www.dpeweb.com and look over the three technical articles on the subject located in the upper-right hand corner of the page. Good basic info, and we also address some of the common myths about brakes and what you want out of an upgrade.
10-21-2005, 09:16 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by RotaryZZ
I thought the 8 would only take DOT 3 brake fluid? Speaking of which, what are some of the good high performance DOT3 fluids out there for us track junkies :D
**
10-21-2005, 10:06 PM
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10-27-2005, 11:52 AM
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Just a note on the Ford HD DOT3 fluid. It's great stuff if you don't mind flushing fluid every 6 months or so (and some don't and that's great!). However, the WET boiling point of the Ford fluid is 290 degrees, vs. the wet boiling point of ATE blue at 392 and Motul 600 at 421. That is a HUGE difference, and basically means that after about a year in the system, the Ford fluid is going to be no better than OEM and in fact barely meets DOT3 specs for wet boiling point (284 degrees).
Wet boiling point is defined as 3.5% moisture saturation, which is typical for 1 year old fluid. My point is that the Ford fluid is great when brand new, but performance will taper off very quickly compared to ATE or Motul. Not suggesting you shouldn't use it, just understand that for peak performance you'd be well advised to flush it with new stuff every 6 months or so. Same goes for the Wilwood, AP and Performance Friction fluids, which also work great brand new but taper off very quickly as moisture is absorbed.
Our favorite 'cheap' fluid is Valvoline synthetic. It's roughly $5 for a large bottle of it at any Advance Auto, and has dry and wet boiling points of 502 and 343 respectively. This is all you'd ever need for the street and very occasional track duty, and it has superior longevity to the Ford fluid.
Wet boiling point is defined as 3.5% moisture saturation, which is typical for 1 year old fluid. My point is that the Ford fluid is great when brand new, but performance will taper off very quickly compared to ATE or Motul. Not suggesting you shouldn't use it, just understand that for peak performance you'd be well advised to flush it with new stuff every 6 months or so. Same goes for the Wilwood, AP and Performance Friction fluids, which also work great brand new but taper off very quickly as moisture is absorbed.
Our favorite 'cheap' fluid is Valvoline synthetic. It's roughly $5 for a large bottle of it at any Advance Auto, and has dry and wet boiling points of 502 and 343 respectively. This is all you'd ever need for the street and very occasional track duty, and it has superior longevity to the Ford fluid.
10-27-2005, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DPE
Just a note on the Ford HD DOT3 fluid. It's great stuff if you don't mind flushing fluid every 6 months or so (and some don't and that's great!). However, the WET boiling point of the Ford fluid is 290 degrees, vs. the wet boiling point of ATE blue at 392 and Motul 600 at 421. That is a HUGE difference, and basically means that after about a year in the system, the Ford fluid is going to be no better than OEM and in fact barely meets DOT3 specs for wet boiling point (284 degrees).
Wet boiling point is defined as 3.5% moisture saturation, which is typical for 1 year old fluid. My point is that the Ford fluid is great when brand new, but performance will taper off very quickly compared to ATE or Motul. Not suggesting you shouldn't use it, just understand that for peak performance you'd be well advised to flush it with new stuff every 6 months or so. Same goes for the Wilwood, AP and Performance Friction fluids, which also work great brand new but taper off very quickly as moisture is absorbed.
Our favorite 'cheap' fluid is Valvoline synthetic. It's roughly $5 for a large bottle of it at any Advance Auto, and has dry and wet boiling points of 502 and 343 respectively. This is all you'd ever need for the street and very occasional track duty, and it has superior longevity to the Ford fluid.
Wet boiling point is defined as 3.5% moisture saturation, which is typical for 1 year old fluid. My point is that the Ford fluid is great when brand new, but performance will taper off very quickly compared to ATE or Motul. Not suggesting you shouldn't use it, just understand that for peak performance you'd be well advised to flush it with new stuff every 6 months or so. Same goes for the Wilwood, AP and Performance Friction fluids, which also work great brand new but taper off very quickly as moisture is absorbed.
Our favorite 'cheap' fluid is Valvoline synthetic. It's roughly $5 for a large bottle of it at any Advance Auto, and has dry and wet boiling points of 502 and 343 respectively. This is all you'd ever need for the street and very occasional track duty, and it has superior longevity to the Ford fluid.
How occasional with the track duty?
11-19-2005, 01:15 PM
#35
listen to the DPE guys folks. They know what they are doing. I have been listening to them for a little while now. I have never been disappointed. I placed the panters up front and the bobcats on the rear for my 5th episode of tracking this year and My God what a differance. You have to readjust your driving style from having the stock pads and you have to add a little more glue to your dentures to keep them from flying out! They do ok on the street also. I waited a week to swap them back out to my street pads after the track time. No problems.
To futher demonstrate what type of guys DPE has-- they offered to take off the pads on their car and send me if they couldn't get my order in stock in time for my track event. That old time racing support guys. I also just ordered my suspenion from them also. They have been very helpful. Listen to them about the brake pads.
olddragger
To futher demonstrate what type of guys DPE has-- they offered to take off the pads on their car and send me if they couldn't get my order in stock in time for my track event. That old time racing support guys. I also just ordered my suspenion from them also. They have been very helpful. Listen to them about the brake pads.
olddragger
11-19-2005, 02:47 PM
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I don't mean to sound ignorant, but in this case I am...What is the reason for installing stainless steel brake lines instead of the stock lines? What benefits?
02-23-2006, 01:04 PM
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i tried to get away with fresh Ford HD DOT3 (bled the day before) and stock pads for a track day a laguna seca (which is pretty hard on brakes). ive got plenty of track time in other cars, so i gave it a workout.
i had a firm pedal all day, but developed a crack in a rotor and there is metal scraping and grooving in the rotor- the pad might have evaporated. this is on 245/40/18 kumho MXs.
havent decided on a new pad yet. it looks from their website that performance friction doesnt make one yet for the rx8.
james
i had a firm pedal all day, but developed a crack in a rotor and there is metal scraping and grooving in the rotor- the pad might have evaporated. this is on 245/40/18 kumho MXs.
havent decided on a new pad yet. it looks from their website that performance friction doesnt make one yet for the rx8.
james
02-23-2006, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8
Really? Because I sure did ...
If you want to get really serious then Hawk HT14 front and HT10 rear are the ticket, but it's a pure track pad not for street use
If you want to get really serious then Hawk HT14 front and HT10 rear are the ticket, but it's a pure track pad not for street use
Ophitoxaemia, I'm not sure if your cracked rotor has anything to do with your use of Ford HD brake fluid. Can you elaborate on why you think it may be related? What type of pads were you using? On a side note, what do you think of the Kumho MX?
02-23-2006, 03:29 PM
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i didnt mean to imply the brake fluid had anything to do with the crack. the kumho mx has good heat resistance, is grippy for a street tire when dry, but its wet traction didnt knock my socks off. they held up very well on the track day. cold pressures 38 front, 32 rear, hot pressures were 44 front, 38 rear.
i thought id try the stock pads and good, fresh fluid, but my results were mixed. it might also be that i didnt have enough pad material left after 22K miles to make it through six 20 minute sessions. thats just my data point for other people tracking their cars for the first time.
i was curious if anyone else developed a crack in the rotor, and if it is a defective rotor. i dont expect a good rotor to have this problem.
looking at HP+ and HPS pads now.
ive had very good results with brake cooling ducts on other cars (my 240Z had 6 of them and needed them all!) - for me thats easier than changing pads before a track day. so i will try adding a couple of those with the HP+ pads.
james
i thought id try the stock pads and good, fresh fluid, but my results were mixed. it might also be that i didnt have enough pad material left after 22K miles to make it through six 20 minute sessions. thats just my data point for other people tracking their cars for the first time.
i was curious if anyone else developed a crack in the rotor, and if it is a defective rotor. i dont expect a good rotor to have this problem.
looking at HP+ and HPS pads now.
ive had very good results with brake cooling ducts on other cars (my 240Z had 6 of them and needed them all!) - for me thats easier than changing pads before a track day. so i will try adding a couple of those with the HP+ pads.
james
Last edited by Ophitoxaemia; 02-23-2006 at 05:10 PM.
02-23-2006, 07:10 PM
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I think I should make a note here to everyone talking about street vs. track pads...
IF YOU'RE GOING TO THE TRACK, NO MATTER WHAT PADS YOU'RE RUNNING, BRING AN EXTRA SET!
You may go through them faster than you think. I toast a set of HP+ Front, HPS Rears in 1 weekend at any track. If I don't have spares with me, I may not be able to get home. Worse yet, I may miss out on track time!!
I'm seeing a couple places advertise HP+ REAR pads. Is this true? Did Hawk finally come out with a matching rear pad?
IF YOU'RE GOING TO THE TRACK, NO MATTER WHAT PADS YOU'RE RUNNING, BRING AN EXTRA SET!
You may go through them faster than you think. I toast a set of HP+ Front, HPS Rears in 1 weekend at any track. If I don't have spares with me, I may not be able to get home. Worse yet, I may miss out on track time!!
I'm seeing a couple places advertise HP+ REAR pads. Is this true? Did Hawk finally come out with a matching rear pad?
02-23-2006, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by RX8SpdDmn
I think I should make a note here to everyone talking about street vs. track pads...
IF YOU'RE GOING TO THE TRACK, NO MATTER WHAT PADS YOU'RE RUNNING, BRING AN EXTRA SET!
You may go through them faster than you think. I toast a set of HP+ Front, HPS Rears in 1 weekend at any track. If I don't have spares with me, I may not be able to get home. Worse yet, I may miss out on track time!!
I'm seeing a couple places advertise HP+ REAR pads. Is this true? Did Hawk finally come out with a matching rear pad?
IF YOU'RE GOING TO THE TRACK, NO MATTER WHAT PADS YOU'RE RUNNING, BRING AN EXTRA SET!
You may go through them faster than you think. I toast a set of HP+ Front, HPS Rears in 1 weekend at any track. If I don't have spares with me, I may not be able to get home. Worse yet, I may miss out on track time!!
I'm seeing a couple places advertise HP+ REAR pads. Is this true? Did Hawk finally come out with a matching rear pad?
http://www.hawkperformance.com/parts...d+Parts+%3E%3E
In case the link doesn't work, the hawk P/N is HB378N.565
Hmm. Now I'm not sure whether I should get these instead of the Carbotechs...
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