no anger, George I came close to tangling before in the Suspension area on this topic last year, but I backed off and let the street crowd have their Tokico circle jerk in peace.

The Competition area is a different story though, you gotta expect some bodywork to get banged up if you attempt to go beyond your limits ...

 

I didn't know that autocross turned into w2w racing.

Looks like I'll be going with the Koni OTS after I get a chance to test drive one (and confirm I can live with a good compromise on the rears) of the generous local B stock owners cars with those shocks. Thanks for all the info/debates/advice guys, I must say the RX8 autocrossers are hardcore and helpfull.

 

And here I was thinking it was a place to talk about competition, not a place to actually compete. I have to say I enjoyed reading the smack down though.

(back to lurk mode)

 

there's a reason why low cost alternatives like Tokico, Tein, etc. can throw a flimsy flex cable on the top of the rear RX-8 shock and Koni cannot, just as there's a reason why serious competitors/pro teams fork out $5000+ for coilovers from Moton, Koni, Dynamic Suspension, JRZ, etc.

BTW, if you won't fork out for a DA conversion on the Koni shocks I at least highly recommend degassing them

 

So, you base your assesment of the D-Specs on experience with that type of internals from shocks that were made 11 years ago. Sounds to me that you are a little behind the times on anything that isn't Koni. Now I know your "opinion" of D-Specs is bunk.

As far as the STFU comment - tell you what. You stop offering advice to people who ask about setting a car up for dual use, and I'll stop offering advice to people who say they want to make a dedicated race car. Oh wait, almost nobody is asking those kind of questions.

And you don't need to have an understanding of quantum physics to tell someone that Earth is better suited to their needs than the moon.

Have a nice day.

 

You bet - no anger. And no worries about banged up body work. I wouldn't have made that initial post if I wasn't ready to protect my racing line.

 

Have you taken another Dale Carnegie course?

 

I have the Tein Basics and I would highly recommend them to anyone who wants serious bang for their buck when doing a suspension mod. Its not the best set of coilovers out there, but for about $700 shipped its a hard deal to beat. Theyre hight adjustable and the spring rates are perfectly mated to the shocks, I give them an A- for daily driving, ride quality is damn near stock, but handling is improved by 150%.
If I had it to do all over again (Tein Basics or Koni Yellows and S-Techs) I would definitly pick the basics. Best mod Ive done on my car yet.

 

I had my D-Spec rears dynoed right out of the box. If you search on my name in the suspension forum you'll find the post.

But oh yeah, dyno plots don't mean anything.

 

Do you do any autocrossing or track driving? I actually love the stock suspension just for driving around town but I'd like a good improvement on the autocross course. I was worried that the basics shock design aren't as sophisitcated as the Konis even though the spring rates were stiffer. I can sacrifice a little comfort for better performance on the weekend but not a more comfortable ride at the cost of less performance.

 

I dont do any real auto-xing, but I drive my car very hard on a pretty regular basis, and the Basics have done nothing but impress me for the price. Ive ridden in (not driven) an 8 with yellow and s-tech springs, and the ride seemed a bit stiffer than the basics, and from what I could gather the car did not handle as well as mine.
For me the price was the deciding factor... I got my Basics for $450 brand new, a complete steal.
Even new the basics are priced very well. You can get a set on ebay for about $700 shipped, maybe even less.
Its very tough for me to say which would be the perfect setup for what you have in mind, but Ill tell you this: My car rides like stock and handles better at 85mph than it used to at 45mph. I frequently have the DSC kick in on me in hard cornering because the car is now able to handle FAR MORE than the DSC thinks it can. When pushed to its limits, the car handles better than I could have ever imagined on a $600 suspension.

I really do wish you could take a ride in my car so I could prove it to you. I almost didnt buy the Basics because I was told they rode hard, and that the handling didnt justify the sacrafice in ride quality.... good lord am I glad I went with my gut on that decision, its exatcly the opposet. I am nothing but 200% pleased with them, and like I said, I firmly believe it is the single best bang-for-your-buck suspension setup out there for the 8.

Hope Ive made your decision alot harder Let us know what you end up doing! Good luck and enjoy!

 

No offense intended, but for those who don't do any actual competition driving you'd be suprised just how far "driving your car really hard on the streets" falls short of what a car experiences at the limits under competition circumstances.

That's not a dig. I'm just saying that it is hard enough to quantify suspension improvements under controlled circumstances with timing and data acquisition equipment, so you'll forgive the serious competitors if we don't put a lot of stock in subjective or anecdotal evidence.

 

This is where you are being led astray in this thread. The D-Specs, when set to somewhere in the region of mid-stiffness (please feel free to fine-tune to suit your personal tastes) offer better subjective handling on the street than stock - which is to say, better body control in pitch, roll, and dive - without any compromise in the ride quality. If you like the stock handling but find it a little underdamped, you will love the D-Specs. Or, if you just plain like the stock feel, you can dial them back even further.

On the autocross course, the D-Specs, when set to the firmer end of the spectrum, give transitional response more or less on par with Konis. I'll refrain from making comments about performance since obviously I am incapable of making such judgements - my six years of autocrossing experience apparently is insufficient for such godly status. But I've autocrossed both back-to-back on the same course and the transitional response felt nearly identical.

But think about this: It's been stated on this board that Koni yellows are worth about 0.5 seconds over OEM shocks on a 60 second autocross course. We're not talking about huge differences here, even when compared to OEM shocks, unless you are competing at the national level. The most important thing the adjustable dampers will do for you (yes, I realize I'm setting myself up again - go ahead guys, have at me) is improved transitional response so that you don't have to work so hard to stay ahead of the car in slaloms and offset gates. Which is to say, firmer shocks makes it easier to drive fast in the transitional intesive crucible of autocross.

You want OEM handling on the street but a good improvement while autocrossing? The D-Specs are exactly what you need. I'm going to keep harping on this because it's true.

 

I dunno..

1. All the top drivers at Topeka running Konis
2. Advice on how to set them up from the very top drivers
3. Cheap to re-valve/rebuild through Koni NA

The question shouldn't be "what should I run" but "why would anyone run anything else".

I can see some folks looking for more shock if they have deep pockets and want to tinker. but for the price difference between Konis and the others why do anything else?

Vince

 

Agreed. For the driver who wants a good improvement over stock for autocross, but wants to retain stock handling on the street, why use anything but Tokico?

 

Ok, I think all the facts have been stated clearly. The Konis are probably faster outright and the Tokicos are close but offer some more flexibility that the Koni's do not.

I think in the end it's just a matter of preference and what you do with your car (i.e. weekend only autocross/track car or 100 mile commute to work in traffic every weekday).

I'll most likely be going with the Konis since there are cars around here with them that I can try, plus the guys that use them are experienced and VERY fast. GeorgeH I see your point and I do think the adjustment could definetely sway someone one way or the other but at the end of the day I want to hit my head against the wall when i'm just .10 slower than the next guy in my class

 

After reading this thread, careful consideration and consulting my Ouija board, I've decided to sell my Konis and buy a set of KYB Gas-a-Just shocks...if Gabriel made the Strider in this application, it really would have messed with my head...

 

No way, you should definetely go with the Monroe sensatracs

Actually, in all seriousness a lot of M3 guys used them as OEM replacements and they worked well for a stock application.

 

I know I'm going to regret saying this but......you don't have to crank your koni's full stiff in the rear to get good performance. Ulllose runs full stiff but there are others out there that run less. I'm currently at 50% (1 turn up from soft) which is very streetable, and to me, preferable on the street over the stock shocks.

 

it should be 2.75 turns from minimum to maximum

IMO, as controversial as it is, if you need to set the rear Konis to full stiff then the rest of your suspension setup is not taking full advantage of it's potential transitional response. Obviously, Uuuloser will disagree ...

 

Mark, how did you come to that conclusion? Or is that on a "need to know basis" and I don't "need to know"?

 

The documentation that came along with the shock was pretty clear that the adjustment range is 720 degs (2 turns) from soft. The last half to 3/4 turn isn't recommended for use.

 

What I've leaned from this thread:

1. Tokicos are da bomb, baby.
2. If you're a chump and you DO choose Konis, there is zero consensus on where to set them. Guys trophied at Nationals with everything from full stiff to 1 turn from full soft in the rear. Ditto front shock settings. Ditto toe settings.

Of course, if there's one thing I have learned in all seriousness, it's that personal preference probably has more to do with speed than mirroring "the" setup. For example (warning: anecdotal evidence ahead), since I bought KC's car, I've yet to beat the owner of the car I drove at Nationals, even though I beat him more often than not when I was co-driving his car this past season. There is definitely nothing wrong with KC's car (except for cone magnetism ), but I seem to be more comfortable - and go faster - driving a car that is set up slightly softer.

 

A year ago I would have disagreed with you and been up for a debate about it. Now I don't care what other people do. I have put my recipe out there for everyone to see, if they chose to replicated or not I don't care. It is not worth the time or effort to try to explain why I did or did not do certain things or to debate with people that would rather ask why than just have the information and say thanks.

 

Thanks...seriously!