I am posting in the race section so I dont think I need to emphasizes the usefullness and importance of lap timing and data logging.

However I am interested in knowing what systems, hardware and software people are using because I am in the market for a new electronic goodie. I am only a 8-10 weekend a year warrior so I can justify spending $1000's of dollars but simply knowing my lap times is no longer good enough for me.

What I am looking for is a GPS based lap timer that will record and display lap times, speed, g's, acceleration and deceleration rates. (all the basics).

Additionaly I would like something that has an OBD'2 reader so that I can review throttle position and RPM along side my speeds and lap times. I already have a MSD Dashawk which can data log and display all the OBD readings but haveing one product that does it all would be nice.

What I have found so far.

Racelogic Vbox PerformanceBox $500 and DriftBox $750: http://www.vboxusa.com/performancedrift/

The PerformanceBox and DriftBox are a small GPS unit that is designed for the sole purpose of lap timing. Using a 10HZ GPS receiver it does all the speed, accerlation, deceleration, HP calculations you would expect but it has no OBD2 input. If you spend an additional $250 and have additional sensors it is possible to record additional perameters like RPM, throttle position and more.

If you spring for the driftbox you get a Yaw Rate sensor, and it calculates your vehicle's drift/slip angle. This can be usefull for track guys because it shows over and understeer.

ECUDatascan $499: http://www.ecudatascan.com/home.html

It is primarly marketed as an OBD2 reader/display. It Has all the typical OBD2 reader functionsincluding guages and data logging. The ECUdatascan also has a built in GPS (probably only 1HZ) but does not come with navigation software. It is however marketed as a lap timer. However with only a 1HZ internal GPS receiver, lap timing may not be great. They also don't say anything about calculating g's.

RaceChrono Touchscreen ($449) and Racechrono TS Pro (with external gps) ($549) With OBD2 bundle ($599)http://mh-motorsports.com/laptimers.htm

It was designed and marketed as a GPS lap timer and if you get the OBD2 bundle it will data log as well. All the GPS functions you would expect and it receives all the OBD2 perameters as well. It does not apear to allow you to read and clear trouble codes (so keep your accessport handy) it also does not look like it functions as a navigation or multimedia system.

Correction: The Racechrono pro w/obd2 will allow you to read and clear trouble codes but it only allows you to view 1 OBD2 perameter at a time. To view others, you must tough the screen to scroll through the slected perameters.

A navigation system can be added.

Dashdaq $550 or $700 (with GPS Nav): http://www.dashdaq.com/

The dashdaq is a linux based system that does just about everything I want and more. It has an OBD2 reader, guages, datalogging, optional gps navigation and will even play music, videos and games. The missing feature is the lap timing, Yes the advertise it can be used as a lap timer but it requires a blackline fuel gps 10HZor 20HZ receiver. The blackline unit is no longer sold and even if you find one it is very expensive. According to Drew tech (makers of the dashdaq) they might consider making it compatible with another gps receiver, but unless they do, I will not buy it. Even if you get the lap timing feature, I am not sure how good the lap timing software is. On the plus side, the dashdaq is linux based and allows additional sensors like a AFR wideband to be added.

Overview:

If all you want is a lap timer, the PerformanceBox is probably as good as anything under $1000. If you want a lap timer with additional features the RaceChono Touchscreen Pro with OBD2 would be the best choice. The ECUdatascan looks like a great value with a lot of potential but without better track software and the ability to add an external OBD2 receiver it will not cut the mustard as a lap timer. Like the ECUdatascan, the Dashdaq is so close but not close enough. It has a lot of nice features but without the external GPS it wont even function as a lap timer and even if it does, the track software does not look as good as the racechrono or performancebox.

 

Own built Carpc, for GPS logging I use Racechrono and for engine/OBD2 logging I use an ELMscan5 and Dashcommand V2.

Love this setup! racechrono has alot of downloadable tracks atleast for Europe but I think US is supported aswell.

happy logging! =)

 

I always was under the impression that OBDII data logging was not very useful due to the slow rate of information transfer. Possibly the only good things to log for OBDII would be maybe temperature sensors like coolant and air intake. It's usually not fast enough for tps monitoring and the like.

If you step to CAN bus, then that's different. CAN bus definitely has the transfer speed for logging. The RX-8 uses CAN bus, you can't hook a regular generic scan tool to the OBDII port.

I didn't click your links, but does someone manufacture a "generic" type CAN logger? I've only seen specific modules for corvettes, and possibly evos?

-Jack

 

Its fast enough.

 

Yes, because RX8s use the can bus.

 

Anyone else use a GPS lap timer? Maybe all the track guys in the garage changing oil, changing their brakes and tires to get ready for the weekend?

 

I've been using the Racelogic Performance Box for the last couple of years.

When lapping the display can highlight lap or split time (you can set up to 6 splits I think) and exit corner speed whatever your focus happens to be at the time.

Its real value though is the Performance Tool software. You can hook up the Box to your laptop after a session and compare up to 4 laps from any session of any section of the track. Gives start end average speeds acceleration deceleration readings etc. If you have downloaded the track map you can compare line and apex to see how consistent you are.

I find it quite useful really and sufficient for my needs. My track time is very similar to yours.

 

Too much to go into here...but couple things...for decent track data your need 20HZ minimum or 40 HZ gps data points. Do the calculations and see how far between points at 100mph. Some say OBD2 polling is fast enough...?? huh??? ...you don't need fast for what there is there anyway, nor should you request excessive polling of parameters and possibly interrupting the ECUs work when it needs pretty much exclusive aceess.

As to possibilities, Traqmate get you all that is needed (except OBD data which can be recorded separately w/something else, sadly) w/external digital and analog inputs, but most important...the sw supplies the data back to you in a useable way to improve your performance.... the sw is the all important factor.

 

10hz is 10 data points per sec. 100 mph = approximately 150 feet second, so 15 feet between points (less for slower speeds). Thats not even a car length. 10HZ is fine. Yes 20HZ or 40HZ would be nice but it gets a little too pricy and provides very little additional benefit for the weekend warrier. Most of our cars were tunned off OBD2 polling and datalogged while being dyno test or during WOT runs, so I think the obd2 is up to the task.

I have looked at the traqmate and they over a lot of nice products, but the basic is $700, you have to spend $1000 to get any kind of display. What sets the traqmate apart from others is the ease of adding an HD camara system and their GPS track mapping uses accelerometers and not just GPS.

 

Spin9k: According to your signature you have the dashdaq. I am guessing you dont have blackline GPS, so no the lap timing feature, but aside from that would you give you opinion on the product.

 

Additional information about the Racechrono pro w/obd2 bundle:

The display will allow you to view only 1 obd2 perameter at a time but it will data log all other guages. You can switch between selected OBD2 perameters by touching the screen.

A gps navigation system can be added to the racechrono pro.

 

Chase Cams and RLC Racing are making a joint cam/datalog venture

http://www.rlcracing.com/track-commander.htm

http://www.chasecam.com/catalog/26



.

 

Very nice, just more then I want to spend. Tempting though.

 

Sorry Highway, but concerning specifically the Traqmate, but it applies to any data logger, you are missing important points, and emphasizing some which are inconsequential. The Traqmate basic is all that is required, the ‘Display’ unit adds a couple ‘nice’ features, but in reality they are convenience features, not important to the actual function of data logging. By that I mean, you are NOT, under any reasonable circumstances, going to be staring at the display during a track session. To think you will be is a mistake. The display is small, the characters are small, and … Simple fact of life, there just isn’t time to switch visual focus to the unit for more than a fraction of a second occassionaly.

Lol, you know it turns out there are only two ways I really use the display. First, is when I’m driving on the street and I display the actual calculated MPH speed so I can be just slightly less than 10mph over the speed limit. The speedometer is off quite a bit, and I want to be sure I don’t get a ticket, yet go as fast as I can safely. It works great for that. Second, on track you can have it hold the previous lap time for a predetermined number of seconds (like 30 sec) so you can see if you are improving over previous laps. I occasionally get a chance to glance at that, but not often. And I have the display mounted on the steering column right in front of me, but the change of focus to it is not easy to do while maintaining track focus. Bottom line, if you are $$$ strapped, get only the basic pkg.

Where the unit excels is allowing you to as they say “Replay your day”. On your PC you can slice and dice and go over each facet of the session, each and every lap to see what you did right and wrong. That’s where the recording resolution come in. For example, 100mph=136.26ft. So at 10 samples/sec you see one data point per 13 ft. You say that’s good enough? Well it’s not. Think of an apex, 13 ft is about a car length, and with that can can’t see whether you got to the correct place on track or not with that little resolution. In fact, with even 20/sec you can see still ‘the jaggies’ on your PC where the unit zigzags between points as you round a curve. Bottom line, the more data per unit time, the better. Important point to keep front and center-----You’re not recording for while you’re driving but for detailed analysis later on your PC. With the Traqmate, you choose 10, 20 (default) or 40 data point/sec. It’s only memory it’s filling, the unit is capable enough for all those speeds. Some others are not.

Beyond capability of hardware, again it’s the software analysis AFTER the fact that important, and what any unit’s TRUE WORTH should be judged on the SOFTWARE supplied, more than anything else. The Traqmate excels at that, and is worth every penny.

 

It's cool. I like it. I mostly use it as a GPS as I don't have it in my RX-8. I don't know what the blackline is, but i think it can do timing. I'd rather use the Traqmate for that though. It has a powerful enough processor in it to display/and or record, I forget, like 8 parameters at a time (other units can't do that many simultaneously). The display is customizable, they give you a bunch of displays and you can assign any paramter to any display graphic. There's a bunch of useful parameters, everything I could ever want to record or watch live.

Mostly I display common things I want to monitor and of course you can set limits and alarms on anything.

 

Posting from an android so I will be quick. I recently got the vbox lap timer. You are welcome to try it out if we meet at the track again.

 

Thats why I said it was fast enough ;-)

I dont think it would be any problems pulling OBD2 data during race, havent heard anyone saying it could be a problem.

 

i have not everything but I have been using RaceChrono, a 5Hz BT GPS and a BT OBD key and a Nokia phone (n95) since RaceChrono is in it's infant stage.

Work like a charm. Cheapest way to go around it. For N95 there is a TV out and some guys installed the N95 neatly into the car and have a huge screen. He has put that on YouTube (a VolksWagon).

If you spent big then performance box. No fuss. User friendly and it is a complete package with at least 10hz GPS.

20hz GPS Spin9k??? You must be very sensitive. I am happy with 5hz and within 0.05 sec of lap time. I don't think my driving has ever been that consistent to warrant that good of a system :D

 

^ selection of responses about choice of data point frequency...

"We recommend 20Hz because the graphs will be considerably smoother, the data points are closer together so the timing is more accurate, and at 20Hz there is still some redundancy so there are less dropouts."

"I would use 40Hz for drag racing, 20Hz for most road racing, 10Hz for 10+ hour endurance races."

"At 20 samples per second you should be fine for most tracks unless you need hyper-detailed information imo."

------------------------------------Interestingly I also found this info------------------------------------

- How does it [Traqmate] interpolate the accelerometer position & speed versus the GPS one? Since the GPS position is only 4hz and you can sample at 40hz – I assume every 10th position reading would be ‘real’?

Answer: Well actually all position readings are real since they are based on actual data readings. We use the G forces to predict the motion of the vehicle between GPS points and to correct bad GPS readings. 'Interpolation' is a correct term but we do far more than a linear approximation since acceleration in multiple axes records curvature.

Accelerometers are more accurate over a short distance and the GPS over a large distance so we use both to come up with the most accurate representation of what the vehicle is doing.

- How much memory does the [Traqmate] DU have? Or, what is the approximate recording time at 10,20,40hz?

Approximate record times:
10Hz - 11 hours
20Hz - 6 hours
40Hz - 3 hours

 

good points by all.
I agree for the weekend warrior that takes his DD to the track, it is easy to obtain " to much data".
There is no substitution for seat time. That is the best data collection system out there.
Now to voice one of my pet peeves.
Unless your car is set up with the proper safety equipment to drive 10/10's --dont worry about lap times. If you car is set up to drive 1010's then get a real data collection system like track mate. Its a great system and you can compare lap's with others and one thing that hasnt been mentioned---you can sell it anytime to want too for about what you paid for it.
It has great support and can be taken as far as you want.
The ga boys have been satisfied with in car video and some trac mate useage. Remeber also a trac mate can be installed pretty quickly--shared ownership is common.
Remember the data is usless unless you have clear track and you are driving hard.
Weekend warriors--like myself mostly--would get better value spending the money on new tires/brakes and apleasing the little woman at home--least that is what my wife says?
OD

 

^ I'll only say this about that regardless of whether you are a newbie or experienced driver/racer.

Seat time wo/feedback only instills your bad habits further into your subconcious, making them harder to unlearn over time, and the inability to even see that they exist.

Seat time w/feedback exposes your failings, your self preservation responses, your fear...your true nature.

Only feedback through study of your own actions leads to a narrowed focus, rejection of unconcious fear, and purposeful action at the conscious level to improve your skills.

Lap times are simply the distillation of all this into a quantifiable approximation you can reflect on but do not equal your skill.

 

I have been using the Racelogic PerformanceBox for a couple of years now. I find it very helpful. It's worth it's price just for the in-car lap time feature. I can get instant feedback about my last lap time. It's easy to check once a lap while you're accelerating down a straight.

Then, you can compare laps afterwards in the software provided. It's also easily transferred to other cars, so I can give it to fellow racers and then compare my laps to theirs to see where I can improve.

One more thing which makes it even more valuable is that they have recently released new software which is much more powerful than the old software. You can get it here: http://www.performancebox.co.uk/dlsoftware.html

 

I agree with you 100%. For the last 2 years my only feedback was feel and my ability to look at my speedometer at track out cones. I would record my laps from inside the car and talk to my self for notes. When I would go back and view the video I could split up the track and see where I did something good or bad.

While this method was better then nothing, it left a ton of gaps and room for improvment that even the cheepest gps lap timer will improve.

I have decided to go with the racechrono touchscreen pro with obd2 bundle. The racechrono software is already pretty good and they are the kind of company that is alway improving. The unit itself is basically a small touchscreen computer which will only be limited by the software and hardware you add.

I will have the unit next week, just in time for my next track day. I will post my review and maybe even a track over lay.

 

I have had the Traqmate for almost as long as Spin....

I like the unit..and the video integration is great. As far as price...it is a bit pricey..but the options for something like it..especially when it came out were almost twice the price

It seems that as technology catches up in the GPS arena that faster stuff is coming down the pipe in this area..

Thanks for the updates on the available stuff you have found

 

I forgot to mention that the Racechrono TS comes with video integration software. I will post my own video but for now you can check out a samle from the USA distributor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb6bt...ayer_embedded#!