Lap timing, data logging systems
11-05-2010, 11:15 AM
#26
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For those who are interested in an El Cheapo method and have an Android phone, I've successfully used Trackmaster.
It's $9, the developer is quick to answer questions and is upgrading constantly.
It uses the internal GPS (1Hz) as is, or you can purchase an external BT GPS unit and pay a couple of more dollars for the app to link them if you need up to 10Hz.
It outputs data to Google Earth, .kml, or has its own graph exporter:
I integrated the data dump with a small flash-type videocam to get this:
[youtube]QzAm6F_lYLE[/youtube]
Far from as nice as Traqmate or the like, but my total cash outlay over what I already own was $9. It's plenty good for my 2 OTDs / year.
It's $9, the developer is quick to answer questions and is upgrading constantly.
It uses the internal GPS (1Hz) as is, or you can purchase an external BT GPS unit and pay a couple of more dollars for the app to link them if you need up to 10Hz.
It outputs data to Google Earth, .kml, or has its own graph exporter:
I integrated the data dump with a small flash-type videocam to get this:
[youtube]QzAm6F_lYLE[/youtube]
Far from as nice as Traqmate or the like, but my total cash outlay over what I already own was $9. It's plenty good for my 2 OTDs / year.
11-05-2010, 09:02 PM
#27
All of the above stuff is good if you're a serious track guy and want some top-notch solutions.
For those of you who want something fun to plot your laps but arnt going to spend much money on it, you want something astoundingly cheap? If you have an Android phone, I bought an app called TrackMaster for EIGHT dollars. It does EVERYTHING including GPS position data, track overlay, calculates speed, G-forces, all of that. The G-meter isn't very accurrate. And it won't give you RPM data. But it does everything else, and the app is VERY well put together. And it's eight fuxing dollars!!!
It even has a (disable-able) function where the lap timer/monitor will only start once you cross the start/finish line. So I click "ready", put it in my pocket, and it only starts data logging once you cross the start/finish on first lap. Genius!
I used it at Lime Rock an havn't gotten around to exporting the data, but the logging itself went amazingly. And it has everything you need to create a sweet video-overlay, like above, minus RPM data.
The only minor complaint is that the GPS reciever on modern cell phones run at 1hz, so the data rate isn't so fast and it uses a lot of interpolation at times. That said, if you REALLY want, it's compatible with external 5hz or 10hz GPS recievers, to provide silky-smooth speed and position data, which can be bought for less than 50 bucks.
EIGHT DOLLARS! heh I think I've made my point...
For those of you who want something fun to plot your laps but arnt going to spend much money on it, you want something astoundingly cheap? If you have an Android phone, I bought an app called TrackMaster for EIGHT dollars. It does EVERYTHING including GPS position data, track overlay, calculates speed, G-forces, all of that. The G-meter isn't very accurrate. And it won't give you RPM data. But it does everything else, and the app is VERY well put together. And it's eight fuxing dollars!!!
It even has a (disable-able) function where the lap timer/monitor will only start once you cross the start/finish line. So I click "ready", put it in my pocket, and it only starts data logging once you cross the start/finish on first lap. Genius!
I used it at Lime Rock an havn't gotten around to exporting the data, but the logging itself went amazingly. And it has everything you need to create a sweet video-overlay, like above, minus RPM data.
The only minor complaint is that the GPS reciever on modern cell phones run at 1hz, so the data rate isn't so fast and it uses a lot of interpolation at times. That said, if you REALLY want, it's compatible with external 5hz or 10hz GPS recievers, to provide silky-smooth speed and position data, which can be bought for less than 50 bucks.
EIGHT DOLLARS! heh I think I've made my point...
11-07-2010, 06:47 AM
#28
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Now this is my kind of Thread!!!
Having owned an earlier version of Traqmate, AIM and now using Motec for the past 3 seasons, I can share a few things that may be useful to all:
A professional driving coach (or someone who has been there/done that) will ask you to have these things in your data logging system:
-Throttle position sensor (which the RX8 has and can be accessed via OBD port)
-Wheel speeds (not GPS) for each wheel (RX8 has this via OBD)
-Brake pressure sensor (absolutely key to going fast). Need to add pressure sensor for this. We tap our master cylinder pre-ABS module and it does the trick. All you are looking for is a pressure value that tells you what your feet are doing.
-Steering wheel angle sensor (a bit trickier to add but very valuable when you are doing advanced driver analysis). This sensor is not required unless you suck with your hands or are a very fast driver looking for tenths.
In addition to the ability to log these items for driver developement you'll want something to capture lap times. GPS is good except if your under the tunnel on the Long Beach backstraight or its cloudy and raining. A beacon will fix this. Both will give you everything you'll ever need. Obviously lap times are essential.
The things I would log if I was a serious driver looking to go faster are these:
-Lambda (A/F)
-Fuel pressure
-Oil Temp
Oil pressure is nice but it will only tell you when you've already had a problem. Water temp is accesible via the OBD port. So is RPM. Intake temp is there just for fun. It is pretty much useless unless you have done a before and after with intake setups and seen that it is freakin hot under the engine bay and if your intake is using it's air source from inside the car you are a goof ball. Use fresh, cool air sports fans unless tidy looks are more important to your 5.2 megapixal Nikon. Looks are for losers. They have nothing to do with going faster. I digress
Having owned an earlier version of Traqmate, AIM and now using Motec for the past 3 seasons, I can share a few things that may be useful to all:
A professional driving coach (or someone who has been there/done that) will ask you to have these things in your data logging system:
-Throttle position sensor (which the RX8 has and can be accessed via OBD port)
-Wheel speeds (not GPS) for each wheel (RX8 has this via OBD)
-Brake pressure sensor (absolutely key to going fast). Need to add pressure sensor for this. We tap our master cylinder pre-ABS module and it does the trick. All you are looking for is a pressure value that tells you what your feet are doing.
-Steering wheel angle sensor (a bit trickier to add but very valuable when you are doing advanced driver analysis). This sensor is not required unless you suck with your hands or are a very fast driver looking for tenths.
In addition to the ability to log these items for driver developement you'll want something to capture lap times. GPS is good except if your under the tunnel on the Long Beach backstraight or its cloudy and raining. A beacon will fix this. Both will give you everything you'll ever need. Obviously lap times are essential.
The things I would log if I was a serious driver looking to go faster are these:
-Lambda (A/F)
-Fuel pressure
-Oil Temp
Oil pressure is nice but it will only tell you when you've already had a problem. Water temp is accesible via the OBD port. So is RPM. Intake temp is there just for fun. It is pretty much useless unless you have done a before and after with intake setups and seen that it is freakin hot under the engine bay and if your intake is using it's air source from inside the car you are a goof ball. Use fresh, cool air sports fans unless tidy looks are more important to your 5.2 megapixal Nikon. Looks are for losers. They have nothing to do with going faster. I digress
11-07-2010, 06:59 AM
#30
Registered
Personally I would invest in the AIM MXL unit due to it's features and expandability. Some of the things people miss out on are what happens when you want to expand your system. I'm telling you that you NEED to be logging A/F and fuel pressure or as you and your car begin to go faster a new set of data will become more important to log/record. Losing fuel pressure due to fuel swishing around in your tank can starve your motor. Starving a rotary of fuel at high rpm load = boom. Boom. Having the ability to review and confirm this data to diagnose engine problems is KEY to trouble shooting. Key. Driving fast doesn't mean squat if you just blew your motor or are getting inconsistant fuel pressures which may lead to future engine boom booms or power loss. Plan ahead by asking those who have been there what you'll be needing to log.
Now that you have your data acquisition you'll need to start using it. One thing you WILL need is somebody experienced to help you understand how to go faster. Throttle, wheel speed and brake are required for this. REQUIRED.
Another thing I'd do in a heartbeat is put a faster driver in your car. It takes a big ******** to put yourself in a position to see that your best friend can drive your car faster than you. But this is what a man does. Yep, I said man. Seen it all the time---nobody wants to find out they suck. Ego issues. Ask a pro driver at your local track to drive your car. A smart driver will throughly check out your car before they do this. A smart driver won't get in a car unless they now what kind of maintenance is behind it. I still do this. Did it two weeks ago. Find somebody faster than you and ask them to put down a couple fast, safe, zingers. Obviously you have been taking tire temps and pressures religously to ensure the car is working properly.
Now that you have your data acquisition you'll need to start using it. One thing you WILL need is somebody experienced to help you understand how to go faster. Throttle, wheel speed and brake are required for this. REQUIRED.
Another thing I'd do in a heartbeat is put a faster driver in your car. It takes a big ******** to put yourself in a position to see that your best friend can drive your car faster than you. But this is what a man does. Yep, I said man. Seen it all the time---nobody wants to find out they suck. Ego issues. Ask a pro driver at your local track to drive your car. A smart driver will throughly check out your car before they do this. A smart driver won't get in a car unless they now what kind of maintenance is behind it. I still do this. Did it two weeks ago. Find somebody faster than you and ask them to put down a couple fast, safe, zingers. Obviously you have been taking tire temps and pressures religously to ensure the car is working properly.
11-07-2010, 07:28 AM
#32
Registered
The Speedsource Renesis cars were powered by a Motec and used an early version of the Motec sport dash/display. This game them access to the road race industry standard I2Pro Motec analysis software. The majority of Grand-Am Rolex and World Challenge GT and GTS (older Touring Cars) run a Motec and use i2Pro software. Expensive but worth it: http://www.motec.com.au/i2/i2overview/
For data acquisiton we use both the SDL display and the ADL2. Just an idea of how you plan in this realm: A SDL display will run you about $3,500'ish without sensors or wiring harness. An ADL2 runs about $6,500+ with no sensors or wiring harness (which is all custom and expensive). Typical data acq harness with Deutch connectors run $2K plus. That's about 10K when you put all the materials and labor into the equation.
Here is what we are currently logging:
-Oil T and Pressure
-Oil P
-Crankcase P
-Air Intake B
-Baro
-All wheel speeds
-Brake P
-Steering wheel angle
-Shock travel/suspenion travel with P&G Potentiometers
-Fuel P
-Throttle (Stock FlyByWire throttle body swapped with manual)
-Manifold P
-EGT (2)
-Diff T (hotter exhaust will overheat your diff. At Toronto our diff cooler failed and we saw 400F diff fluid temps.
-RPM
-Lat, Long and V g's
-Infrared temp sensor we move around to measure things (currently brake rotor, caliper and hub temps because next year our World Challenge series is using a Pirelli slick). A more grippy tire will reveal new issues in a car. Currently we are using a similar 1.5 lat g tire to find/discover/uncover heat related issues to prevent mechanicals that may come from this new tire. For the record, we do replace our front stock hubs, brake calipers, master cyl and brake booster prior to the beginning of every season just for insurance purposes. We replace the front hubs and brake calipers mid-season to avoid any issues (which do come from time to time because we are beating the crap our of the tires).
Some side notes:
-This is new ground for a beginner and this stuff is hard to learn. Few resources exist for this. One of the easier things to do is go find a higher end, serious racer and hang out with them at the track. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE AN RX-8 sports fans. Find somebody doing it right and ask to look look at their car. Spend time looking and not asking questions. Look, look, look and you can understand what they are logging.
-An easy and free thing to do is obtain free data acq software and have someone send you their log files. You can start looking and observing what they log. Typically a professional racer or race team engineer has zero time at the track. Zero. If you can get them off track and buy them dinner with their lap top you'll have a better shot and learning things.
-Mechanical engineers pick this stuff up waaaay faster than sales guys. Me (sales guy) has figured out how to do it after years of practice. I'm pretty good too. Hats off to all the guys better than I that I've tapped into over the years.
-The last thing I would think about is hiring a pro driver to help you with data acq. There are many guys that do this. Some are much better than others. Some are dicks. Some are very humble and have your best interest in mind other than your pocket book. Plan to spend about $1K per weekend plus expenses. WELL WORTH IT. Bring your mechanical engineer buddy with you and plan to buy him dinner and beers next season and he will hlep you to go faster.
If you want a Motec log file from a track to look at, just ask me. All I ask it that you have Motec i2Pro and can prove to me that you have it and I'll send a file. Please, no requests for data unless you share your intent for using it.
Cheerio
E
For data acquisiton we use both the SDL display and the ADL2. Just an idea of how you plan in this realm: A SDL display will run you about $3,500'ish without sensors or wiring harness. An ADL2 runs about $6,500+ with no sensors or wiring harness (which is all custom and expensive). Typical data acq harness with Deutch connectors run $2K plus. That's about 10K when you put all the materials and labor into the equation.
Here is what we are currently logging:
-Oil T and Pressure
-Oil P
-Crankcase P
-Air Intake B
-Baro
-All wheel speeds
-Brake P
-Steering wheel angle
-Shock travel/suspenion travel with P&G Potentiometers
-Fuel P
-Throttle (Stock FlyByWire throttle body swapped with manual)
-Manifold P
-EGT (2)
-Diff T (hotter exhaust will overheat your diff. At Toronto our diff cooler failed and we saw 400F diff fluid temps.
-RPM
-Lat, Long and V g's
-Infrared temp sensor we move around to measure things (currently brake rotor, caliper and hub temps because next year our World Challenge series is using a Pirelli slick). A more grippy tire will reveal new issues in a car. Currently we are using a similar 1.5 lat g tire to find/discover/uncover heat related issues to prevent mechanicals that may come from this new tire. For the record, we do replace our front stock hubs, brake calipers, master cyl and brake booster prior to the beginning of every season just for insurance purposes. We replace the front hubs and brake calipers mid-season to avoid any issues (which do come from time to time because we are beating the crap our of the tires).
Some side notes:
-This is new ground for a beginner and this stuff is hard to learn. Few resources exist for this. One of the easier things to do is go find a higher end, serious racer and hang out with them at the track. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE AN RX-8 sports fans. Find somebody doing it right and ask to look look at their car. Spend time looking and not asking questions. Look, look, look and you can understand what they are logging.
-An easy and free thing to do is obtain free data acq software and have someone send you their log files. You can start looking and observing what they log. Typically a professional racer or race team engineer has zero time at the track. Zero. If you can get them off track and buy them dinner with their lap top you'll have a better shot and learning things.
-Mechanical engineers pick this stuff up waaaay faster than sales guys. Me (sales guy) has figured out how to do it after years of practice. I'm pretty good too. Hats off to all the guys better than I that I've tapped into over the years.
-The last thing I would think about is hiring a pro driver to help you with data acq. There are many guys that do this. Some are much better than others. Some are dicks. Some are very humble and have your best interest in mind other than your pocket book. Plan to spend about $1K per weekend plus expenses. WELL WORTH IT. Bring your mechanical engineer buddy with you and plan to buy him dinner and beers next season and he will hlep you to go faster.
If you want a Motec log file from a track to look at, just ask me. All I ask it that you have Motec i2Pro and can prove to me that you have it and I'll send a file. Please, no requests for data unless you share your intent for using it.
Cheerio
E
11-07-2010, 07:42 AM
#33
Momentum Keeps Me Going
See more about fun to be had with an expandable system like the Traqmate here....
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-wheels-tires-brakes-suspension-55/shocks-coilovers-general-suspenion-knowledge-links-207346/
(I know scale is off the charts to big, and reading are low- I hadn't correctly calibrated them yet - and was just starting w/the temps graphing)
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-wheels-tires-brakes-suspension-55/shocks-coilovers-general-suspenion-knowledge-links-207346/
(I know scale is off the charts to big, and reading are low- I hadn't correctly calibrated them yet - and was just starting w/the temps graphing)
Last edited by Spin9k; 11-07-2010 at 10:21 AM.
11-07-2010, 10:50 PM
#36
Again this is the cheap and simple method....and won't be as useful for serious race driving practice as the fancy stuff Eric and others were talking about.
But again- EIGHT DOLLARS.
11-09-2010, 06:48 AM
#38
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My carpc solution is quite nice, the best thing is that I havent locked myself with an deadend software/hardware. it can be changed with only a different software.
Dashcommand is great, logs every single possible PID there is in the RX-8 PCM. it is also possible to hook up AUX for example AIM, Motec, Etc etc and of course it supports other sensors.
You can log how mutch data you want, currently I run a 250GB disk and there is no problem to log a whole season if you want.... =)
Hook Dashcommand and Racechrono up and you have a nice solution with digital gauges that can be changed to what ever you want.
Dashcommand is great, logs every single possible PID there is in the RX-8 PCM. it is also possible to hook up AUX for example AIM, Motec, Etc etc and of course it supports other sensors.
You can log how mutch data you want, currently I run a 250GB disk and there is no problem to log a whole season if you want.... =)
Hook Dashcommand and Racechrono up and you have a nice solution with digital gauges that can be changed to what ever you want.
11-09-2010, 07:40 AM
#39
like Eric said--hire a pro--or go with a run group like NASA, get a good instructor that races--if you feel good with him--let him drive your car and you take the right seat. Its easier for me to learn when someone shows me--rather than trying to figure out data and putting that data to use.
Eric is the rare bird that works on his own, fabricates himself and drives. Sometimes I think he enjoys the figuring out part more than anything.
OD
Eric is the rare bird that works on his own, fabricates himself and drives. Sometimes I think he enjoys the figuring out part more than anything.
OD
11-09-2010, 07:58 AM
#40
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Yepp thats an good idea =)
http://vimeo.com/14710996 <--First out me, next heat is Instructor (Also Miata Cup driver) Henrik Phil testing my car.
http://vimeo.com/14713740 <--Instructor (also driver in Endurance Racing Cup) Matz Olli tests my car.
Fun to compare driving styles during and after (loggs and videos) =)
I try to catch all possible good drivers at events and let them test the car (with both the camera and logging turned on).
Next season I will have atleast one camera on the outside and one 1080p camera inside the car.
http://vimeo.com/14710996 <--First out me, next heat is Instructor (Also Miata Cup driver) Henrik Phil testing my car.
http://vimeo.com/14713740 <--Instructor (also driver in Endurance Racing Cup) Matz Olli tests my car.
Fun to compare driving styles during and after (loggs and videos) =)
I try to catch all possible good drivers at events and let them test the car (with both the camera and logging turned on).
Next season I will have atleast one camera on the outside and one 1080p camera inside the car.
Last edited by fastlaneracing; 11-09-2010 at 08:03 AM.
11-09-2010, 04:06 PM
#41
nice---exhaust sounds different?
here is one of mine at Road Atlanta this year--just messing around.
you can see the tach if you look hard
notice the close ration between 4 and 5th gear.
i get to 6th on the long straight at 125mph
http://contour.com/node/110235
here is one of mine at Road Atlanta this year--just messing around.
you can see the tach if you look hard
notice the close ration between 4 and 5th gear.
i get to 6th on the long straight at 125mph
http://contour.com/node/110235
Last edited by olddragger; 11-09-2010 at 04:18 PM.
11-10-2010, 05:46 AM
#42
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I'll take a look to night =)
What you hear is actually only the intake sound, its an Gopro fitted right where my Racing Beat intake duct sucks in the air. you can hear the SDIAS working well ;-)
EDIT: Nice driving, that wasen't your first time at Road Atlanta I guess, it looks smooth and fast. Damn nice track btw, don't know how many thousands of laps I done at it in Forza Motorsport. I got the feeling being in the backset of your rx-8 there just wanted to ask you for a couple of laps ;-)
What you hear is actually only the intake sound, its an Gopro fitted right where my Racing Beat intake duct sucks in the air. you can hear the SDIAS working well ;-)
EDIT: Nice driving, that wasen't your first time at Road Atlanta I guess, it looks smooth and fast. Damn nice track btw, don't know how many thousands of laps I done at it in Forza Motorsport. I got the feeling being in the backset of your rx-8 there just wanted to ask you for a couple of laps ;-)
Last edited by fastlaneracing; 11-10-2010 at 11:48 AM.
11-10-2010, 01:43 PM
#43
ha ha--anytime you are in the area
The long right handed downhill turn after you go under the over pass--is a negative camber turn--you cant tell it in the vid.
Its a baller of a turn. No run off either. I am about 100mph there. woo ha.
So that is that sound----i be dang. Thats a setup i have never seen before and it sure sounds good--now that i know what it is.
Keep up the good work dude and rotor on.
OD
The long right handed downhill turn after you go under the over pass--is a negative camber turn--you cant tell it in the vid.
Its a baller of a turn. No run off either. I am about 100mph there. woo ha.
So that is that sound----i be dang. Thats a setup i have never seen before and it sure sounds good--now that i know what it is.
Keep up the good work dude and rotor on.
OD
11-16-2010, 12:38 PM
#44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBfS_...&feature=share
A video from my latest track day. I use a basic handheld camcorder and the Racechrono pro lap timer (10HZ external gps). The obd2 reader bundle was ordered but had not arrived on time so no RPM or TPS.
At the track the RC timer was very easy and helpful to use.
The data overlay was pretty easy once I figured out the included software and found video editing software that would do the overlay. I used cyberlink power director (trial version). I may purchase the program for about $60 or use a free version of track vision.
A video from my latest track day. I use a basic handheld camcorder and the Racechrono pro lap timer (10HZ external gps). The obd2 reader bundle was ordered but had not arrived on time so no RPM or TPS.
At the track the RC timer was very easy and helpful to use.
The data overlay was pretty easy once I figured out the included software and found video editing software that would do the overlay. I used cyberlink power director (trial version). I may purchase the program for about $60 or use a free version of track vision.
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