ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

Mazda's OEM brake pad kit always come with full hardware kit (clips and shims, etc) as well as a small package of anti-squeal lubricant.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

and you cannot just order the hardware kit from the Mazda catalog system :-/

devildog1679

I use Motul but I don't flush before every event. I only flush before the first event of the season. In all I did about 8 track days and the fluid was just fine. I'm no automotive expert but is flushing before every event rerally necessary?

BlueRenesis82

Depends on how hard you hammer on it. Motul is great and all, but it does absorb moisture pretty quickly. I have had issues where I ran the same fluid for more than 6 months and I did get a spongy pedal. So it is possible. If you run Castrol SRF, flushing is not necessary before every event, on the other hand if you run the regular Ford DOT 3 fluid, then flushing before every even is a good idea. It depends on the type of fluid.

altiain

iTrader: (3)

If you call Motul, they will recommend flushing the system at least every six months. Motul absorbs water faster than most of the other high performance brake fluids out there, so its performance degrades more quickly.

You may look at flushing brake fluid before every track day as overkill, I look at it as cheap insurance. Maybe if people weren't so cavalier about basic maintenance for cars that see track duty, there might not be so many stupid and easily avoided accidents at track days.

SolarYellow510

These are typically riveted to the pad backing plate, not user-installable unless you're some kind of fab guru. Some aftermarket pads may not include them where the OE pads do.

My friend who was formerly responsible for brake-related vehicle dynamics at Delphi is adamant that jamming on the brakes and relying on ABS is, with a car built in the last five years, the fastest way to stop it under any conditions. With cars built ten years ago, a really good driver could probably outbrake ABS some of the time, under some conditions, if he stayed just under the ABS threshold. But ABS systems have gotten better, and that's just not the case today.

There is an exception, which is if you've modified the vehicle to such an extent that the ABS programming interprets its now-normal performance as something out of bounds that needs to be controlled. You may then get very poor ABS performance and be able to gain an advantage by disabling it.

Stability control is a whole 'nother issue. If someone is driving on the track with stability control active, they should stay in the newb group until they're comfortable without it. What I go to the track for cannot be experienced with stability control on.

Spin9k

Your friend is generally right for the lay driver on the street. That's what electronic nannies are best used for.... helping the helpless in emergencies ON THE STREET.

That being said, using the ABS as the prefered method to slow down before a turn on a race track is, in all possible ways, an absurdly dangerous concept.

On the street - you're simply trying to stop as quick as you can. On a racetrack, you have no room for error, you are already purposely planning on operating the cars tires at the limits of adhesion anyway. You (not the nannies) MUST BE responsible for the car slowing sufficiently to complete the turn WHILE STAYING ON THE RACETRACK! In practice, that means trying "start of braking" at a later and later place before entering a turn until your (normal - NOT ABS) braking can do that. EVERY turn must be practiced and it's braking lessons remembered.

IMO, on track, the ABS function should always be kept in reserve, not used as a standard operating procedure. For example, if there ends up being debris or sand or stones in the braking zone and the tires break traction, you may want ABS to step in and TRY and SAVE YOUR BUTT. But putting the car in ABS mode each and every brake opportunity is a recipe for disaster.

Lest we forget this perfect example of this... This : ABS brake method handed this guys butt to him in his totalled almost new MS3! End of story

And if you don't believe me, go to the track and play Russian Roulette with your brakes using ABS, and let us know how it worked out for you.... include pictures of course

RPIRX-8

All this is well said Spin, and he definitely made many admitted and non-admitted mistakes that caused this accident. I'm glad this discussion is taking place because thats exactly why I posted this thread. Much education results from catastrophy. I even remember when you and I were track n00bs asking SpeedRacer for glass cleaner and headlight tape

Now the other thing that scares me is this guy was riding solo (just dawned on me). This leads me to believe he was not in the novice run group, or whomever he is running with is liberal with their sign-off procedures. I would actually place a good amount of fault with whomever signed him off. If he was admitedly driving liek that, AND got signed off, something is wrong here. Since I'll be moving out to Seattle in a couple weeks, I'll track this club down

SolarYellow510

Sorry, this guy has been a nationally competitive SCCA racer (3 kids now) and was responsible for final signoff on dynamic testing of many, many production vehicles. He has said he is faster under all conditions in any current production car using ABS. And he's done the instrumented testing to back that up.

ABS has been the center of many rules debates in World Challenge GT, as well as Grand Am Koni Challenge GS, where Porsches use alternate ABS controllers, and the only 350Z team that's ever won a race is the one that has figured out how to make its ABS work right.

Until I have four feet, four brake pedals, and the ability to somehow feel the grip of each individual tire on the pavement and react several times per second, I will not fundamentally be better than ABS, and neither will you.

If you have ABS that works effectively on your car and aren't using it, you're not slowing down as fast as you could be.

Spin9k

Well, I'm not an SCCA champ, and I, on purpose, don't stop as fast as the car can possibly stop. I leave something on the table because I value my life and my car's physical integrity. On the otherhand, I need to return home driving my car from 30-500 miles after every event without fail.

But by all means ... knock yourself out with the ABS... but like I said before ... please don't forget any 'relevant' pictures

SouthFL

***** to the wall racing: use ABS to gain in the brake zone.
HPDE track day: use ABS to save your *** from coming in too hot. Use it as a parachute. Do 99% of your braking below the ABS threshold. Allow that 1% error to save your *** if need be.

PedalFaster

Yup. I don't think there's a disagreement here -- racers should be using every advantage available to them and pushing everything, including braking, to the limit. HPDE-ers shouldn't be pushing the limits that hard, specifically because they're not racing, and consequently have neither the in-car safety gear nor the trackside safety crews that racers have. Less safety allowance and different event intent -> less aggressive driving.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

should be titled; "Racer Wannabe Gets A Reality Check!!!"

mwood

EDIT: Nevermind...I think I'll go back to explaining why pulling the fuse is your best way, in most cars, to disable the driver's air bag...probably be easier to convince you guys of that than the need to get into the ABS with regularity in HPDE events...

Huhwha

Good point. The thing that amazed me was the other guy stopping to check on the guy that crashed. Is he nuts or poorly instructed? His only job was to get his car safely past the scene so the safety vehicles could get there and do their job. Do we know what group was running this event? I'd sure like to steer clear of them.

TrochoidMagic

"floating" calipers eh???

the last time i looked at my calipers, they didn't look like factory floating types calipers, like the brembo's on the STI's/G35's and such...

i think you mean "sliding" calipers.

and yes...floating type calipers have that it doesn't slide on pins as an advantage in racing. so less prone to sticking issues or froze pins...


[QUOTE=dannobre;2154617]Since the calipers are like the RX-8 ..... floating calipers...it is possible that he had sticking issues...causing one pad to rub constantly and wear down a lot faster.