They loosen when hot and will work loose.

 

Yeah, but just once. Not each time. Theory is that you can ease into a lot of torque if not careful. Now, how good that theory is ???

 

Yes just once. I kept finding lug nuts loose when I got home until I started retorqueing them when hot.

 

Right, only use the E-Brake ON the track! j/k!


Well, looks like I'm not going to get a lot of stuff I needed in time. I might be going out bone stock- this will be a big difference from my track prepped NB, but it should still be fun.

Got all the 30k service stuff done (plugs, fluids, filters), tranny and diff fluids changed with Redline, and at least I'll have my RPF1s and RS3s in time.

I hope the stock brakes are up for the job though.

Thanks for the tips guys!

tom

 

My World Challenge cars use stock brakes and the stock ABS. Of course, the car is lighter than yours, we are using racing brake fluid and pads, but the calipers etc are stock.

 

That's helpful to know. Unfortunately I may not get my new pads in time and I'm hoping the stock pads are up to some light track duty- just a lapping day but I wanted to get some stuff on the car and get it sorted out. Oh well. I guess I'll just have to have fun instead.

tom

 

The OEM pads will hold for a good day on the track. Depending on how hard the braking zones test you, they should be good for the weekend. I went through two weekends my first year out (VIR Full and Summit Point Main) before the Hawk Ceramics I used got a little too thin for comfort. I'll echo the brake fluid flush, a high-quality street fluid will do just fine with OEM brakes / pads. Save the Motul / ATE for Hawk HT-10s and brake-abusive places like The Glen.

Fun? Man, that's the whole point of track days!

 

Exactly.!

 

stiffer springs.

I am also wondering if less lift or more downforce would help.

What car(s) have you used on the track before and how heavily modified?

 

@ nadarealist,

I would start with shocks and springs. I did Tokico and H-Tech for adjust-ability on the car and comfort. It made a lot of the butt up wiggle dance (technical term) go away. Then there are alignment things to get rid of the rest. Search is your friend. I seem to remember that the alignment stuff is not something you want to drive around on the street with very long.

When you search you will find something like 3 shock and spring religions and maybe 2 to 3 alignment religions. Feel free to join up. Then read what you can find from TrackAddict and Eric Meyer. I learned a lot.

 

I run the same brake pads front and rear with not problem. I have -2 camber all around; 0 toe up front and 1/8th toe-in rear. Is the problem just on initial braking or all the way to turn in?

 

I agree that the loose rear end under heavy braking can be fixed with Shocks/springs. The stock suspension is just too soft and there is too much weight transfer to the front which is causing the loose rear end under braking. However if you do all your braking in a straight line you wont have any problem. Hard on the brakes, off the brakes, neutral throttle to settle the car and you turn in.

I run Hawk race pads DTC-60 all the way around but I am going to switch to a DTC-10 in the rear simply because the rear are not getting hot enough and are bairly getting into the operating heat range. Using a lower temp pad (one that will reach operating temp more easily) will alow for better braking performance.

For alignment you will find a lot of different settings, but most of them are

Toe: No toe or slight out in front and slight toe in for the back. More tow out in the front and tow in for the rear will loosen the car up. Adjust based to fit your personal driving style, track and suspension setup (spring rates, shocks, sways and tires).

Camber: Max front negative camber you can achieve (around 2-2.5 deg depending on drop) and the same rear camber as the front down to 1 deg less neg then the front. The rear is adjusted to fit your personal driving style, track and suspension setup (spring rates, shocks, sways and tires). More rear neg camber will give more grip and tighten the car up, less rear Neg camber will losen the car up and help it rotate.

Corner balance and rake will also effect you ideal alignment settings.

Taking proper tire temp data will help you find the proper camber settings. I personaly want the least amount of Neg camber possible while still using the entire tire patch. This allows more tire contact patch during braking and acceleration.

 

ok i have something to add. if you know there is a chance of rain, or 2in of rain which is what happened this weekend:

RainX or wax your windows...holy crap it made a world of difference.

 

you mentioned "stomping" on the brakes at ~130...i'm guessing that's not really what you meant, but consider how suddenly you're engaging them. sudden weight transfer can really unsettle the car, and high speed magnifies the effect.

as you said, this is a different animal from your previous car, and your driving style might need to be adjusted accordingly. FWIW, i have no stability issues braking aggressively from ~120 to ~70 on my stock suspension and street tires, but i try to be very smooth and progressive in initial pedal application (really, any control input) to keep the car settled.

 

1 bucket seat is all you need for the first time
dont need to put real good/soft tires,
coz u will need to learn skills first, better learn it from the beginning,
from a stock car, then keep pushing it, till to its limit, then start changing stuff
like coilovers, sways, better tires

 

Not sure why you need a seat, the stock ones work just fine

 

if u are going to track, the stock seat wont hold your body well, you will end up using your foot and arms to against the door, that will makes you cant focus on the road, trust me, having a bucket seat can let you take corners a lot faster, feels like you are connected to the car

 

My braking style for years has been to ease into the brakes, but for the track we are told to push hard (I kinda stomp myself), then, ease off some for how much you need.

I've only stomped as high as 96mph, chirped the fronts slightly, but didn't get the butt wiggle, and I'm slightly toed out up front.

On the way over to shorten my sway bars links, I could feel the rear wanting to bounce up over every ripple in the road.

I've run shortened stock endlinks for almost a year with no issues.

My belief is that it actually helps keep the rear from jumping up too high since the 1.5 inch shortened links run out of length.

I'm sure I'll be told no, but the rear bar works better for me than it did, since my stock suspension came at its minimum low specs, and it's a cheap fix.

 

For the seats.... Get some of the clips for holding car seats. They look kind of like an "H". You can make the seat belt plenty tight so you do not slide around. Next step would be one of the harness that attache to the rear seat belts.

 

Progressive vs digressive braking techniques is where you can improve a lot in non-abs cars especially.

 

This torso harness works pretty well and its very affordable. http://www.soloperformance.com/SPS-U...ss_p_1279.html

 

Hard but smooth braking. One wet track day and you will know learn what I mean. Stomping on the brakes can cause undesired weight transfer and abs activation. Being smooth is faster.

 

Yep, its just meant to keep you in the seat instead of sliding around.

From a safety stand point it might make things worse because it will cause all the pressure to be placed across your torso. It might work better and safer to run diagonal like a second shoulder belt.

 

It gave me 12 hp above 8200 rpm with a straight midpipe. Below 8200 there was no improvement on the dyno (ie full throttle, fourth gear)

 

Its called version 2, designed for reduced backpressure and high rpm use. There is a before and after dyno in the dyno thread.