View Poll Results: Should the Track Springs by Progress Go into Production with spring rates discussed?
Yes! Pull the Trigger I am ready to buy!
32
74.42%
Not interested.
11
25.58%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll
Progress Technology Springs
03-27-2009 | 01:20 AM
#26
Hot Pit
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 658
Likes: 0
From: Castro Valley, CA
are they doing the street springs, the same height ???
if not where I could get some camber kit for rear, because I don't need 2.3 degree of camber driving 360 days on the street.and five days on track.
if not where I could get some camber kit for rear, because I don't need 2.3 degree of camber driving 360 days on the street.and five days on track.
03-27-2009 | 07:10 PM
#28
Row faster, I hear banjos
iTrader: (5)
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Posts: 2,217
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From: Charlottesville, VA
Miles,
A revalve *may* not be needed. With the miata koni sa's, a revalve isn't needed unless running rates above 450-500 lbs/in. I sent Lee Grimes @ Koni the following e-mail and I'll post up his response.
A revalve *may* not be needed. With the miata koni sa's, a revalve isn't needed unless running rates above 450-500 lbs/in. I sent Lee Grimes @ Koni the following e-mail and I'll post up his response.
Hi Lee,
I purchased a set of Koni SA's from one of your US vendors for my 2006 Mazda RX-8. What are the stiffest spring rates I can run front and rear on my car before needing a revalve?
Many thanks!
I purchased a set of Koni SA's from one of your US vendors for my 2006 Mazda RX-8. What are the stiffest spring rates I can run front and rear on my car before needing a revalve?
Many thanks!
03-27-2009 | 09:58 PM
#29
03-28-2009 | 09:28 PM
#30
Registered
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 104
Likes: 1
From: South Bend, IN
If Lee doesn't come through for ya Shaikh at FCM may be able to help us out. He has the dynos for the OTS Koni SA shocks and can do the numbers pretty quick. I know that he says the max spring rate for the OTS Bilstein HD is 300lbs so hopefully the Konis are valved a bit tougher than the Bilsteins.
03-30-2009 | 03:15 PM
#31
Registered
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 104
Likes: 1
From: South Bend, IN
I don't know how to run the numbers myself but here are Shaikh's dyno's of the Bilstein and the OTS Koni vs OEM Tokico.
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03-30-2009 | 08:15 PM
#34
Registered
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
From: Oreland, PA
the last combo i tried was 550/275. next up was 450.
03-31-2009 | 09:04 AM
#35
speed source also has to contend with acceleration traction problems with that 3 rotor they run. this changes things. After being fully satisfied with a koni yellow, tein h springs and rb bars on my street/track set up --now that i have added a little over 100hp to the picture--this has changed everything. If i dont get a little acceleration "squat" (weight transfer) the rear end will break out easily. So currently I am searching once again for a better set up. I like the progressive spring idea.
Point is --speed source is a completely different car than most of us run--dont compare.
olddragger
Point is --speed source is a completely different car than most of us run--dont compare.
olddragger
03-31-2009 | 10:41 AM
#37
Row faster, I hear banjos
iTrader: (5)
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Posts: 2,217
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From: Charlottesville, VA
This is my initial response from Lee:
I've responded to his e-mail with more specific details:
Will post his response.
Hello Chike,
You have asked the new "most popular question" that I get these days but the problem is that there is no specific answer to it, it is a general ballpark at best but first needs more info. The problem is that this question only considered two things: spring rate and valving. It totally ignore many other important things like usage (street, racing, autoX, missed usage), driver preferences, other mods to the car, etc. Shocks don't work in a vacuum, they are important components that have input from or to a wide variety of items that work together. Anyone who says "they are good for 600 but not 650" for example is either fooling themselves or fooling you as you cannot just draw a single line like that. As soon as you do, we can find examples of people who are happier with higher rates and obviously we can make a big difference on track or autoX with stock springs and revalving. For certain there are spring rates way outside the ballpark that would need more valving but they would likely not be used that realistically anyway.
If you would like to call me, we can discuss this further so I can get some input on your wants and needs. My office phone is xxx-xxx-xxxx ext xxx and my work cell is xxx-xxx-xxxx from 8-5 eastern time and often later a bit.
Lee Grimes
KONI North America
You have asked the new "most popular question" that I get these days but the problem is that there is no specific answer to it, it is a general ballpark at best but first needs more info. The problem is that this question only considered two things: spring rate and valving. It totally ignore many other important things like usage (street, racing, autoX, missed usage), driver preferences, other mods to the car, etc. Shocks don't work in a vacuum, they are important components that have input from or to a wide variety of items that work together. Anyone who says "they are good for 600 but not 650" for example is either fooling themselves or fooling you as you cannot just draw a single line like that. As soon as you do, we can find examples of people who are happier with higher rates and obviously we can make a big difference on track or autoX with stock springs and revalving. For certain there are spring rates way outside the ballpark that would need more valving but they would likely not be used that realistically anyway.
If you would like to call me, we can discuss this further so I can get some input on your wants and needs. My office phone is xxx-xxx-xxxx ext xxx and my work cell is xxx-xxx-xxxx from 8-5 eastern time and often later a bit.
Lee Grimes
KONI North America
- Spring/shock combo to be used on an RX-8 set-up for the SCCA STX class (street tires)
- Spring rate ranges being considered Front & Rear
Will post his response.
03-31-2009 | 03:10 PM
#38
Row faster, I hear banjos
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From: Charlottesville, VA
FWIW, the spring rate ranges I mentioned to Lee that were being considered were as follows:
Front: 400-500lbs/in
Rear: 250-325lbs/in
See his response below:
I also sent a similar e-mail to Koni's Technical support department and got the following response:
So it looks like the spring rates being discussed within this thread are well within the valving capabilities of the off-the-shelf koni shocks.
Front: 400-500lbs/in
Rear: 250-325lbs/in
See his response below:
Chike,
Looking at the valving, I would think those spring rates would be well within the acceptable ballpark if the shocks are adjuster at or in the upper end of the adjustment range. Of note, that application already has quite a very great deal of compression damping in it off the shelf and could not be increased really if the shocks were to be revalved. The front rebound makes a good bit of force but can certainly be increased with revalving if needed. The rear has room for increases in both bump and rebound although the bump is not particularly low on that end either.
My suggestion would be to run the car with your spring upgrade and decide for yourself if you feel like you need them to be revalved. If you find that the car is best at the max setting and more range above that would be better, then it is a candidate for revalving. By comparison, the current B Stock national champion won on the off-the-shelf KONI Sport valving with no revalving so they are already pretty capable out of the box.
Lee Grimes
KONI North America
Looking at the valving, I would think those spring rates would be well within the acceptable ballpark if the shocks are adjuster at or in the upper end of the adjustment range. Of note, that application already has quite a very great deal of compression damping in it off the shelf and could not be increased really if the shocks were to be revalved. The front rebound makes a good bit of force but can certainly be increased with revalving if needed. The rear has room for increases in both bump and rebound although the bump is not particularly low on that end either.
My suggestion would be to run the car with your spring upgrade and decide for yourself if you feel like you need them to be revalved. If you find that the car is best at the max setting and more range above that would be better, then it is a candidate for revalving. By comparison, the current B Stock national champion won on the off-the-shelf KONI Sport valving with no revalving so they are already pretty capable out of the box.
Lee Grimes
KONI North America
Chike,
You will be fine with the range that you're looking at. The 325 is getting towards the upper end of the range of the adjustment but you'll still likely end up at a quarter or half turn off of full firm even with the 325# spring rate. Thanks.
You will be fine with the range that you're looking at. The 325 is getting towards the upper end of the range of the adjustment but you'll still likely end up at a quarter or half turn off of full firm even with the 325# spring rate. Thanks.
Last edited by chiketkd; 03-31-2009 at 03:44 PM.
03-31-2009 | 03:21 PM
#39
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
FWIW, the spring rate ranges I mentioned to Lee that were being considered were as follows:
Front: 400-500lbs/in
Rear: 250-325lbs/in
See his response below:
I also sent a similar e-mail to Koni's Technical support department and got the following response:
So it looks like the spring rates being discussed within this thread are well within the valving capabilities of the off-the-shelf koni shocks.
Front: 400-500lbs/in
Rear: 250-325lbs/in
See his response below:
I also sent a similar e-mail to Koni's Technical support department and got the following response:
So it looks like the spring rates being discussed within this thread are well within the valving capabilities of the off-the-shelf koni shocks.
04-02-2009 | 08:01 AM
#42
Row faster, I hear banjos
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,217
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From: Charlottesville, VA
FWIW, to the best of my knowledge the spring rates used in these koni cars are being referred to. I think in Team's STU thread, during his suspension trial-n-error "process" he did try running the road race stiff springs used on koni challenge cars.
04-17-2009 | 08:49 AM
#45
I watching the market, I have pulled the trigger on one to many projects and don't want to get over my head.
Unless more people are ready to pony up some money now, it will be a challenge getting these to the market faster.
I am bit hesitant at taking a risk for a 50 spring order outright....without more interest.
I know the interest is there, I guess it is the safety net I am waiting for.
Also I believe Progress is amidst his designs or he could be waiting for a final go ahead from me.
I will talk to him today possibly if not early next week.
Unless more people are ready to pony up some money now, it will be a challenge getting these to the market faster.
I am bit hesitant at taking a risk for a 50 spring order outright....without more interest.
I know the interest is there, I guess it is the safety net I am waiting for.
Also I believe Progress is amidst his designs or he could be waiting for a final go ahead from me.
I will talk to him today possibly if not early next week.
04-17-2009 | 10:00 AM
#47
Row faster, I hear banjos
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,217
Likes: 0
From: Charlottesville, VA
Thanks Fluid. I voted. You can count on me to buy at least one set, possibly two. Even though I can't run these springs until after Solo Nats, I'll purchase a set if they come on the market before then.
-Chike
-Chike
