Pushing
06-11-2004 | 01:44 PM
#26
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From: Biggest Little City
Originally posted by Gord96BRG
From a strictly textbook approach, I would have agreed with you. However, Tim (tpryor), the one suggesting that a bigger front bar on an RX-8 decreases understeer for autocrossing, actually has an RX-8 that he autocrosses very successfully, and HAS experience with that mod, and explained why it works.
From a strictly textbook approach, I would have agreed with you. However, Tim (tpryor), the one suggesting that a bigger front bar on an RX-8 decreases understeer for autocrossing, actually has an RX-8 that he autocrosses very successfully, and HAS experience with that mod, and explained why it works.
-Debbie
06-11-2004 | 01:50 PM
#27
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Joined: Apr 2004
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From: GREAT WHITE NORTH
Originally posted by tpryor
Nope.
If the car sits down on the bump stops, the spring rate goes to infinity. By increasing the size of the bar, the spring rate does not go to infinity, as the stiffer bar forces it to stay on the spring, thereby EFFECTIVELY reducing the rate, and the push is diminished.
You have heard other members say it works also. So, the proper equation would be:
Bigger front bar=more front roll stiffness=less effective spring rate=less understeer
Nope.
If the car sits down on the bump stops, the spring rate goes to infinity. By increasing the size of the bar, the spring rate does not go to infinity, as the stiffer bar forces it to stay on the spring, thereby EFFECTIVELY reducing the rate, and the push is diminished.
You have heard other members say it works also. So, the proper equation would be:
Bigger front bar=more front roll stiffness=less effective spring rate=less understeer
Look at FWD cars- limit behavoior is rear inside wheel off the ground.
Look at RWD car- limit behavior is front inside wheel off the ground.
Ultimately, limit behavior will give more understeer even though the ultimate limit might be higher
Whatever Autox and have FUN:D
Friends of mine were shocked when I got THREE wheels off the ground. I never said I was good, but always tried hard.:D
Last edited by Seenitall; 06-11-2004 at 02:48 PM.
06-13-2004 | 04:51 PM
#28
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,223
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From: San Antonio, TX
You have heard other members say it works also
You will notice a drastic improvement by changing to stiffer sway bars.
07-11-2004 | 01:44 PM
#29
Lollygagger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 170
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From: San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted by Gord96BRG
trex8, Lawerence:
Nice theories you have there. Have you actually tested them on an RX-8? (Both of you state categorically that a bigger front bar will result in more understeer).
From a strictly textbook approach, I would have agreed with you. However, Tim (tpryor), the one suggesting that a bigger front bar on an RX-8 decreases understeer for autocrossing, actually has an RX-8 that he autocrosses very successfully, and HAS experience with that mod, and explained why it works.
Hmmm, who should we listen to - the guy who has actually run a bigger front bar on an RX-8 and is winning his class in autocrosses, or the guys who haven't tried it and are just stating generic theory?
Regards,
Gordon
Nice theories you have there. Have you actually tested them on an RX-8? (Both of you state categorically that a bigger front bar will result in more understeer).
From a strictly textbook approach, I would have agreed with you. However, Tim (tpryor), the one suggesting that a bigger front bar on an RX-8 decreases understeer for autocrossing, actually has an RX-8 that he autocrosses very successfully, and HAS experience with that mod, and explained why it works.
Hmmm, who should we listen to - the guy who has actually run a bigger front bar on an RX-8 and is winning his class in autocrosses, or the guys who haven't tried it and are just stating generic theory?
Regards,
Gordon
Great info guys.
07-12-2004 | 08:55 AM
#30
I'm a bad person
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
From: South Central MA
few things- I'm not an expert, but I am told I'm better than average, so I'll lend some things that I hve learned from one of the greatest drivers I've ever seen- imp on this board
slow in, fast out - a must with the stock setup, every car, and I can most definately say even the Evo understeers out of the box. It is a safety feature that car manufacturers build into the handling characteristics of a car. The last car that didn't have this built in was a ford in the 1970's I think- it only lasted a year with that setup. Remember, most of America can't drive
Smoothness rules, that is all
as for trailbraking- haven't really tried that yet, and though I'm decent with LFB, at least with my subaru, I haven't tried it with the 8, probably the next one
the car definately needs stiffer springs or something, the front definately dives huge amounts under braking. Didn't really notice until another instructor/great driver took my car out.
and if anyone else is reading this after all that- anyone notice a ticking sound under hard/ sustained turning= kind of like rocks coming up and hitting something in the wheel well.?
slow in, fast out - a must with the stock setup, every car, and I can most definately say even the Evo understeers out of the box. It is a safety feature that car manufacturers build into the handling characteristics of a car. The last car that didn't have this built in was a ford in the 1970's I think- it only lasted a year with that setup. Remember, most of America can't drive
Smoothness rules, that is all
as for trailbraking- haven't really tried that yet, and though I'm decent with LFB, at least with my subaru, I haven't tried it with the 8, probably the next one
the car definately needs stiffer springs or something, the front definately dives huge amounts under braking. Didn't really notice until another instructor/great driver took my car out.
and if anyone else is reading this after all that- anyone notice a ticking sound under hard/ sustained turning= kind of like rocks coming up and hitting something in the wheel well.?
07-12-2004 | 09:28 AM
#31
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 151
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From: Middle of Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Reaper Man
and if anyone else is reading this after all that- anyone notice a ticking sound under hard/ sustained turning= kind of like rocks coming up and hitting something in the wheel well.?
Sounds like you need to go with the new torque specs on the front studs. Check the TSB on the subject over in Tech.
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