Paul_in_DC

After some experience at the track, one of my goals is to learn to heel-toe. I'm interested in getting a pedal kit that looks like it'll make heel-toe easier due to the shape of the pedals. Anybody have experience at adding one of these kits? Any plusses and minuses, advantages and disadvantages? TIA.

One example is at
http://www.ogracing.com/eshop/itemde...26&showbrake=1

expo1

I have been looking into this also. I purchased a cheap Mr. Gasket brand of pedals and found out that the design of the clutch & brake makes the installation of aftermarket pedals difficult. Some form of customization will be required. In the photo the bar the clutch/brake pedal is attached to runs to the middle of the pedal, the Spacro’s holes would not work as is. The Gas pedal however was easier to mod and I have installed that, going to the track this weekend so I guess I will see how it works. Based on what I have seen those Sparco’s brake & clutch look like they will not fit but the gas pedal might.
I do need to move my braking foot a bit more to the left during normal driving so I don’t hit the gas but it’s not a big deal. One thing you can try is moving the OEM gas pedal over to the left a little. It’s held on by three small nut/bolts (Allen key needed). The holes you would use are not counter sunk but you will not notice that. It will at lest tell you if the concept will work. I am still not sure if I will keep the set up I now have.

tuj

I think most people will tell you that the pedals in the RX-8 are basically ideal for heel-toe. One thing that may help, if you have longer legs, is using the outside edge of your foot on the throttle instead of your heel. IMHO, if you need different pedals, you aren't doing it right.

expo1

5' 8" 29 inseam That is also the reason my head hits the roof with a helmet.

Paul_in_DC

With the ball of my foot on the brake, the right edge of my foot doesn't quite catch the throttle. If the OEM gas pedal has enough left-right adjustability, that might work for me. I'll check out your suggestion and see if I can get it to work. Thanks.

I tried the "real" heel-toe thing, but that's awkward for me. Football - knee injuries - long story...

expo1

Try using the holes circled, the screws will stick up a little but with shoes on you will not notice. If you like it just get a drill and countersink those holes.

RotaryZZ

>I think most people will tell you that the pedals in the RX-8 are basically ideal for heel-toe.

Well, personally I think the OEM pedals setup in our car is actually the worst for heel & toe, unless you're wearing a shoe size of 13+!
The best and most natural setup is on Porsche and BMW. For one thing they use bottom hinge design for the gas pedal which I found giving you somewhat finer control on the gas.

Im_DANomite

iTrader: (1)

i don't have a problem with the OE pedals. i'm 5'8" and wear a 10.5 shoe. BMWs are annoying to do heel toe.

tuj

No, that would be the 2004 and previous Mustangs...terrible pedal placement in those cars.

Most everyone who has problems with heel-toe doesn't understand that you don't have to use your heel. In fact, most people won't be able to in the RX-8. Use the outside edge of your foot, and rotate the ball of your foot on the top lip of the brake pedal. Seriously: try it and see if you can't control the rev's at a stop-light like that. I've used that technique since my Miata days, because my legs are too big to get under the wheel to use my heel. Everyone I've showed it to has adopted it as their technique once they got used to it.

Some people use the flat part of their shoe on both pedals, both under the ball of the foot. Yes, you need big feet to do that, and I don't like it as much because you don't have as good of control. Think of it this way, your foot was made to rotate up and down, not side to side longitudally.

Ultimately whatever feels best and gives you the most control over the brake is best. But IMHO, there is absolutely no reason for aftermarket pedals in this car, to fix what is essentially a driver problem.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

paul, you probably have nearly the same shoe size as me, and i think the RX-8's pedal placement is nearly perfect for heel-toe.

next time at the mscw meeting i'll show you how i do it in the 8 :D

Gerael

Yah.. rx8 has surprisingly good setup.. gas pedal is closer to driver so you don't have to hit the brake too hard to reach the gas...

also there is a little rubber circle on the brake.. where your toe can pivot... i think they designed it for heal toeing... my outside edge of foot can touch the gas while on the brake... but for real heel toeing.. its no problem pushing the heel down...

i'm 6'0" and think its the easiest car to heel toe once you get used to it...

i've driven porsche and bmw.. though haven't tried heel toeing on them.. or at least i don't remember... but i would have noticed if it felt as good as the stock rx8 setup

yiksing

I changed my shoes with wider soles instead and it worked great with the stock pedals.

willhave8

Paul,

It is really hard to describe. Best I can tell you is to keep trying. How I do it, (5'10 31inseam) is to put the top, left bottom of my foot on the right outside edge of the brake pedal. With that, the outside right bottom of my foot can blip the throttle with no problem.

I guess technically it is the outside of my big toe and the left outside of my heal.

Once you get it you won't even think about it. Oh by the way, it works with the OEM pedals. I don't think the pedals are the rate limiting step. You just have to find a feel for it.

Craig

tuj

BTW, if you can't do heel-toe while braking lightly, you aren't doing it well. You should be able to modulate the brake while you are doing it.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

^t'is true

avakiannl

iTrader: (1)

I prever the bottom hinge as well, but the RX-8 is not that bad. I wear size 12.5 wide and can't reach the throttle with the right side of my foot. But the problem is not that the pedal is too far... it's that my knee does not fit under the steering wheel so my leg is at the wrong angle and my foot must be contorted. 6'2" 33" inseam.

I need to figure out how to move the steering wheel closer to me or position the pedals further away.

Anyone know if the Mazda 5 (or other model) telescoping system can be retrofitted into an 8?

BlueRenesis82

size 13's here and I love the stock placement of the pedals

tuj

Dont try to get your knee under the wheel; use the outside edge of your foot instead of your heel. You can actually put your knee against the inside of the driver's footwell for some extra support while doing this. Us taller guys generally use a different technique than the skinny kids who can hit the gas with their heel.

avakiannl

iTrader: (1)

I see your point and agree, but I my legs are too long for this car. In order for me to reach the steering wheel I have to get really close to it, so close, that my knees are at a 45 degree angle and it's almost touching the dash. I do use the outside edge of my foot when shifting in other cars but it puts extreme stress on my ankle when doing it in the 8. Nobody I've seen drive actually uses their heel in modern cars, I've been told the terminology is from the early 1910's - 20's when the brake was on the right and the throttle pedal was in the middle on some cars (not sure if that's true). I really need a telescoping steering wheel to drive the 8 properly. Nick

tuj

Hmm, I dunno about no one; watching Best Motoring, you can clearly see that many of the top Japanese sports car drivers do indeed use their heel, but most of them are quite short as well! Its facinating to watch feet-cam of modern road racers; their techniques are incredible.

You might try adjusting the seat recline to put your sholders closer to the wheel. The usual problem is that you run out of headroom that way, so you might try lowering the seat and using a low-profile helmet as well. A different set of seat brackets can help at this.

L8APEX

us tall guys have it bad, then there is me. 4 knee surgeries, the most recent three weeks ago. my brake and gas control was the one thing that kept me from moving out of HPDE 1 at my first track event. Our intructors told us that the best way was the using the outside of your foot, since it works better for longer stints in the car. and, at 6'-1, i cant get my legs moved around under the steering wheel. so i am working on the other method, at all of the off ramps i come across. i have been told about a pedal extension for the gas pedal, that can be removed for non track use, that is basically a plate that extneds it towards the brake pedal, to make it easier to blip the throttle during braking. that may be my next step.

conevadr

So rather than look it up, I'm being lazy... Would modifying the seat brackets, or even removing a little foam from the seat be stock class legal? perhaps under comfort and convenience?

tuj

Well you can't change the driver's seat, and you can't modify the seat to install a harness. Replacement parts are supposed to be the same size and spec. as factory, so I think it would be best to put the question to the SCCA rules committee.

Edit: you can have a cushion to sit on, but it can't be attached in any way to the seat. So my guess is you could NOT cut the foam, since that would increase the seat's ability to hold the driver in place, which is not allowed.