question to those who choose to race a rx8
03-20-2009, 12:05 AM
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question to those who choose to race a rx8
to those of you who race rx8's, what was the reason for choosing the rx8, say over a s2000?
just an honest question.
just an honest question.
03-20-2009, 05:29 AM
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i dont like how the s2k looks like from the side and i dont like convertibles and theres just some things u cant do w a s2k that u can do an rx-8 if u know what i mean
and u turn a couple more heads w the rx-8
and u turn a couple more heads w the rx-8
03-20-2009, 05:54 AM
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Have had two s2000 in the past. Now i have a family, so the criteria in a new car was
competitive
fun
sporty
price point
back seat
i was between a civic si and an rx 8, looked for value in a used rx8 and couldnt really find one.
ended up negotiating such a great deal on an 09(7000 off) that it was a no brainer. Plus the cost to setup an rx8 for solo 2 is dirtcheap, will be doing first event next week in this car and only have 600 in setup costs so far.
competitive
fun
sporty
price point
back seat
i was between a civic si and an rx 8, looked for value in a used rx8 and couldnt really find one.
ended up negotiating such a great deal on an 09(7000 off) that it was a no brainer. Plus the cost to setup an rx8 for solo 2 is dirtcheap, will be doing first event next week in this car and only have 600 in setup costs so far.
03-20-2009, 07:38 AM
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- Mazda Rotary engine.
- Insanely good handling.
- Mazda factory racing support. (Truly excellent.)
- Reasonably good looks.
- Solid roof.
- It has a soul.
- Future Spec RX-8 prototype.
- Reasonably priced. (A real bargain for it's performance.)
03-20-2009, 10:44 AM
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I acquired my RX8 last August. Honda S2000s were one of the vehicles I looked at and drove while still deciding on a car. I do several HPDEs a year and use the car as my only daily driver. I also pull a boat. Both cars are nice, both handle well, but if you're only going to have one car, need a back seat, and pull a boat, the RX8 was the better choice. Not really saying its great for the boat but it works.
03-20-2009, 12:36 PM
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03-20-2009, 01:10 PM
#12
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RX-8 is a great sportscar. S2k has no back seats, high insurance rates, kiddy interior especially the KITT-inspired gauges and I don't like ragtops. The rotary makes the s2k's engine feel barbaric at high rpm.
03-20-2009, 02:10 PM
#15
One other point - even the front cockpit of an RX-8 has more room than the S2K, and is more liveable day-to-day. I love small convertibles (drove a '94 Miata daily for 10 years), but they do get old as a daily driver, even if you rarely need a back seat.
But as a pure weekend toy, the S2K would be fantastic.
But as a pure weekend toy, the S2K would be fantastic.
03-20-2009, 04:49 PM
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And for those of us live in cold weather, the RX-8 is actually livable in winter with snow tires. I've only been stuck once, and I managed to get myself out. I have yet to see an S2000 out in the winter.
03-20-2009, 06:33 PM
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I drove my S2000 in the snow, and drive my Boxster in the snow now. No reason not to do so as long as you have snow tires.
03-20-2009, 06:56 PM
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Guess people are not as brave over here in Wisconsin then...but then there are Bimmers with all season tires everywhere. You probably don't have as much snow in Seattle though. We've been seeing 8" at a time this winter.
03-21-2009, 11:19 AM
#19
different and so a different kind of challenge
room--you can haul lumber in an 8! family of 4 on vacation etc! also spend the night comfortably in it at the track. i should start a thread on how too!
the brotherhood
SOLID CHASSIS/BRAKES/STEERING/differential
smoothest--watch vids of the 8 and others inside the cockpit and notice what the driver is having to do
sound--unique
shoots flames!!
light---- relatively speaking
sparkplugs easy to get to as is most other stuff
pretty dependable on track
good factory support
great dsc system
olddragger
room--you can haul lumber in an 8! family of 4 on vacation etc! also spend the night comfortably in it at the track. i should start a thread on how too!
the brotherhood
SOLID CHASSIS/BRAKES/STEERING/differential
smoothest--watch vids of the 8 and others inside the cockpit and notice what the driver is having to do
sound--unique
shoots flames!!
light---- relatively speaking
sparkplugs easy to get to as is most other stuff
pretty dependable on track
good factory support
great dsc system
olddragger
03-21-2009, 01:27 PM
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The RX8 is a lot more practical as a daily driver. The S2000 can be daily driven, I daily drove a miata setup for STS2 for about 3 years before getting my RX8. I didn't have any issue with the miata as a daily driver, but I'm loving the practicality of the RX8.
Also at least with the deal I found on mine, the RX8 is cheaper. Although I've seen some pretty good deals on S2000's recently. Also for me the RX8 is cheaper to setup for autoX and will be more competitive in the classes I like to run. I hate stock cars and I'm not a fan of stock class autoXing. Although it is fun to watch some of the really good battles in those classes. Just wouldn't like driving there, mostly because I don't like cars that are stock. Half the fun of cars for me is modifying them to my taste. So for the RX8 that leaves me STX, while it is a compromise of the mods I'd like to do, it still makes for a fun car that should be competitive in its class. For the S2000 I'd be either BSP or SSM, both of which are more expensive and the S2000 would get destroyed in both those classes.
I plan on owning an S2000 someday but for right know the RX8 is the better choice.
Also at least with the deal I found on mine, the RX8 is cheaper. Although I've seen some pretty good deals on S2000's recently. Also for me the RX8 is cheaper to setup for autoX and will be more competitive in the classes I like to run. I hate stock cars and I'm not a fan of stock class autoXing. Although it is fun to watch some of the really good battles in those classes. Just wouldn't like driving there, mostly because I don't like cars that are stock. Half the fun of cars for me is modifying them to my taste. So for the RX8 that leaves me STX, while it is a compromise of the mods I'd like to do, it still makes for a fun car that should be competitive in its class. For the S2000 I'd be either BSP or SSM, both of which are more expensive and the S2000 would get destroyed in both those classes.
I plan on owning an S2000 someday but for right know the RX8 is the better choice.
03-21-2009, 06:37 PM
#21
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Depending on how you define "race" I would say the S2000 if you intend on getting serious.
A few observations from a guy who is racing (and investing heavily) in two RX8's
-Normally aspirated, the Honda is faster than the RX8 in a road course environment. Clearly faster
-You will encounter fuel issues with the RX8 as you add grip, driving skill and race duration.
-There is a huge failure mode with the RX8 motor in the Koni Challenge Series right now. I would argue (with data) that a few Club Racing guys I know are experiencing this as well. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS COMMENT UNLESS YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS FAILURE MODE AS IT TAKES WAY TOO LONG TO DESCRIBE AND I DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO EDUCATE STREET DRIVERS. This failure mode is currently NOT being seen in street engines and appears to be limited to the Koni Challenge environment. This one issue is absolutely huge
-Transmissions. The transmissions have a well published failure mode. I own 6. The last 3 very fast drivers I have had in our #16 car have wasted transmissions. I would argue that these drivers and faster than 90% of the people reading this right now----so the issue is not bad driving. The issue is the transmission is weak and you have to drive it a bit more slowly to make it last. It is the well known weak link in the car. If you don't know this then those of you reading this probably are not driving fast enough. The MX-5 trans had similar issues. Well documented. You will find that the RX8 transmission in a competitve race environment (if you have to ask what this is then you're probably currently not a racer and/or fast enough to experience the failures I have referred to above). No offense. Driving is driving. Racing is Racing. FAST racing over longer durations is neither the first or second mentioned earlier. Again, if you have to ask then you probably won't have INITIAL issues.
The Honda:
-You can make this dude go REALLY REALLY fast. REALLY fast. Well balanced. Lots of grip if properly setup. Significantly faster than an N/A RX8. I would argue that it may be faster than an RX8 when both have power adders but it would take a very skilled driver to confirm this.
Here is the real question you need to answer. It is the hardest question you will be asked about driving if you've yet to address it. I say this based on years of asking this question to 1st time drivers and or drivers thinking about racing. The responses are always the same. Here goes: Why do you want to race and how defined is your path to get you to racing?
If you've yet to address this then be prepared to spend a ton of money and take more time to earn your race licenses.
Please consider this advice if you are new to driving or have just begun to consider racing: Go to lots and lots of races (not driving events) and talk with lots and lots of racers. Racing is hugely different than HPDE's or TT events. HUGELY different.
Entering the racing environment is not as easy as buying a set of golf clubs. If you desire to really get somewhere then you need to have a very clear picture before you begin (especially in racing). I've seen dozens of guys enter the environment. Bull headed, stubborn, and close-minded individuals who entering the racing environment blindly, had poor results and bad experineced and left with a lot less money in their pockets. This is what you can avoid by opening your eyes and doing your homework.
Will that said, please feel welcome to contact me and I'd be happy to help you (or not) should you consider a path into racing (in an RX8, S2000 or other). Personally (and professionally) you need to get a Spec Miata. Those who know about this car will agree with me 100%. Those who don't really don't understand racing and probably never will.
Happy Rotoring
A few observations from a guy who is racing (and investing heavily) in two RX8's
-Normally aspirated, the Honda is faster than the RX8 in a road course environment. Clearly faster
-You will encounter fuel issues with the RX8 as you add grip, driving skill and race duration.
-There is a huge failure mode with the RX8 motor in the Koni Challenge Series right now. I would argue (with data) that a few Club Racing guys I know are experiencing this as well. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS COMMENT UNLESS YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS FAILURE MODE AS IT TAKES WAY TOO LONG TO DESCRIBE AND I DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO EDUCATE STREET DRIVERS. This failure mode is currently NOT being seen in street engines and appears to be limited to the Koni Challenge environment. This one issue is absolutely huge
-Transmissions. The transmissions have a well published failure mode. I own 6. The last 3 very fast drivers I have had in our #16 car have wasted transmissions. I would argue that these drivers and faster than 90% of the people reading this right now----so the issue is not bad driving. The issue is the transmission is weak and you have to drive it a bit more slowly to make it last. It is the well known weak link in the car. If you don't know this then those of you reading this probably are not driving fast enough. The MX-5 trans had similar issues. Well documented. You will find that the RX8 transmission in a competitve race environment (if you have to ask what this is then you're probably currently not a racer and/or fast enough to experience the failures I have referred to above). No offense. Driving is driving. Racing is Racing. FAST racing over longer durations is neither the first or second mentioned earlier. Again, if you have to ask then you probably won't have INITIAL issues.
The Honda:
-You can make this dude go REALLY REALLY fast. REALLY fast. Well balanced. Lots of grip if properly setup. Significantly faster than an N/A RX8. I would argue that it may be faster than an RX8 when both have power adders but it would take a very skilled driver to confirm this.
Here is the real question you need to answer. It is the hardest question you will be asked about driving if you've yet to address it. I say this based on years of asking this question to 1st time drivers and or drivers thinking about racing. The responses are always the same. Here goes: Why do you want to race and how defined is your path to get you to racing?
If you've yet to address this then be prepared to spend a ton of money and take more time to earn your race licenses.
Please consider this advice if you are new to driving or have just begun to consider racing: Go to lots and lots of races (not driving events) and talk with lots and lots of racers. Racing is hugely different than HPDE's or TT events. HUGELY different.
Entering the racing environment is not as easy as buying a set of golf clubs. If you desire to really get somewhere then you need to have a very clear picture before you begin (especially in racing). I've seen dozens of guys enter the environment. Bull headed, stubborn, and close-minded individuals who entering the racing environment blindly, had poor results and bad experineced and left with a lot less money in their pockets. This is what you can avoid by opening your eyes and doing your homework.
Will that said, please feel welcome to contact me and I'd be happy to help you (or not) should you consider a path into racing (in an RX8, S2000 or other). Personally (and professionally) you need to get a Spec Miata. Those who know about this car will agree with me 100%. Those who don't really don't understand racing and probably never will.
Happy Rotoring
Last edited by EricMeyer; 03-21-2009 at 06:41 PM.
03-21-2009, 08:47 PM
#22
well said Eric and very true--one is very serious and the other is just about learning a little and having a little fun.
I do remember the day when weekend racers had a chance, but those days are long gone. True racing is serious business and you need a well structured plan with some back up plans when things dont turn out as you wish!
if i really wanted to get in the true racing game --like you have said-- a spec miata would be the place to start, the factory 5 cobra-- for a little more money-- would also appeal to me.
You are right again in recognizing the difference in weak points between the 2 worlds!
when people are turning in the mid 1 50's at Road Atlanta or in the high 1:20's at Roebling Road they are not driving hard and the rx8 may hold up fairly well. But when you start trying to do mid to low 1:40's at RA --its a whole new ball game and then when you try to complete a race at those times even more gremlins come to roost. Starvation issues, trans, heat to name a few.
Hope to see you and your crew around soon. By the why the 09 fuel pump is a much better design--much better.
olddragger
I do remember the day when weekend racers had a chance, but those days are long gone. True racing is serious business and you need a well structured plan with some back up plans when things dont turn out as you wish!
if i really wanted to get in the true racing game --like you have said-- a spec miata would be the place to start, the factory 5 cobra-- for a little more money-- would also appeal to me.
You are right again in recognizing the difference in weak points between the 2 worlds!
when people are turning in the mid 1 50's at Road Atlanta or in the high 1:20's at Roebling Road they are not driving hard and the rx8 may hold up fairly well. But when you start trying to do mid to low 1:40's at RA --its a whole new ball game and then when you try to complete a race at those times even more gremlins come to roost. Starvation issues, trans, heat to name a few.
Hope to see you and your crew around soon. By the why the 09 fuel pump is a much better design--much better.
olddragger
03-22-2009, 05:12 AM
#23
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03-22-2009, 08:23 PM
#24
seems so at this point--i was ok down to 3 clicks from empty!
09 pump changes--
1- pump is beefier and stronger--now its a denso pump
2- the fuel filter is replaceable
3- the output from the fuel filter to the engine is now on the bottom of the filter instead of the top(helps with cavitation type airbubbles)
4- the can is rx8 design specific and the fit between the top lid and the top of the can is much different allowing better fuel flow into the can
5- the venturi set up is different and seems better
6- the fp sock is a much better design and is a little higher off the bottom of the can
this to name a few
olddragger
09 pump changes--
1- pump is beefier and stronger--now its a denso pump
2- the fuel filter is replaceable
3- the output from the fuel filter to the engine is now on the bottom of the filter instead of the top(helps with cavitation type airbubbles)
4- the can is rx8 design specific and the fit between the top lid and the top of the can is much different allowing better fuel flow into the can
5- the venturi set up is different and seems better
6- the fp sock is a much better design and is a little higher off the bottom of the can
this to name a few
olddragger
