Renesis HP engine in Racing Proto
06-04-2006 | 03:27 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by hogcar
Can you get a picture of the Oil and water cooler setup so I can see what you have?
Cheers,
Fabrice
06-04-2006 | 06:53 PM
#27
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From: Buddhist Monastery, High Himalaya Mtns. of Tibet
Are you using the stock pulley on the engine? At sustained high rpms, the water in the pump can cavitate reducing the flow through the system. Have you tried underdrive pulleys.
06-04-2006 | 08:38 PM
#28
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I am sure you know this, but oil is used as a form of cooling the rotary internals, where coolant cant get to, its just as important as radiator. Look for the Courage C65 threads in the lounge and in the racing forum to check out RG's view on size/airflow of radiator and oil cooler
________
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Volcano vaporizer
Last edited by Renesis_8; 09-11-2011 at 08:48 AM.
06-05-2006 | 12:55 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by Renesis_8
I am sure you know this, but oil is used as a form of cooling the rotary internals, where coolant cant get to, its just as important as radiator.
I remember in my 911 SC, which of course has no water cooling, the oil capacity was huge; and there was a lot of external oil piping length designed into the car, to better introduce the oil to the ambient air temps.
Last edited by GULAMAN; 06-05-2006 at 12:57 AM.
06-05-2006 | 06:17 AM
#30
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First I'll reply to the few new posts :
The original pulley is used indeed. Although the use of an underdrive pulley is a good idea for a racing application, I don't think the original set-up can induce an overheating issue.
The oil cooling use a single cooler, larger than the original unit. It is not ideally located, as the engine is mid-mounted.
I had a proper look at some pictures of the Star Mazda car. They use a huge racing water radiator on the right side of the car. They use a second one, same size it seems, on the other side for oil cooling only. By its size, I guess it is oversized and allows a very large oil capacity (heat sink). Which match what GULAMAN just mentionned above.
Anyway guys, thanks for your interest and your help.
Fabrice
The original pulley is used indeed. Although the use of an underdrive pulley is a good idea for a racing application, I don't think the original set-up can induce an overheating issue.
The oil cooling use a single cooler, larger than the original unit. It is not ideally located, as the engine is mid-mounted.
I had a proper look at some pictures of the Star Mazda car. They use a huge racing water radiator on the right side of the car. They use a second one, same size it seems, on the other side for oil cooling only. By its size, I guess it is oversized and allows a very large oil capacity (heat sink). Which match what GULAMAN just mentionned above.
Anyway guys, thanks for your interest and your help.
Fabrice
06-05-2006 | 06:32 AM
#31
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From: Europe
Originally Posted by hogcar
Can you get a picture of the Oil and water cooler setup so I can see what you have?
The 2 water radiators are rather small, and fitted at an angle. They already were on the proto when it was still running a peugeot V6 engine.
The oil radiator is the tiny cooler in front of the rear wheel. A small NACA air inlet insures it gets proper cooling.
Compared to the set-up in the original car, it seems sufficient. However, compared to the Star Mazda
...Fabrice
06-10-2006 | 10:18 AM
#34
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From: atlanta ga
One of the first rules of racing rotaries in chassis normaly used with piston powerplants is the need for larger radiators. Also the RX8 water pump is quite inefficient but luckily there are some fine folks coming out with an improved unit probably by year's end.
06-11-2006 | 05:02 PM
#36
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From: Europe
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
we need to send you back to race car building 101 
Fabrice
06-12-2006 | 02:47 AM
#38
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^^ Don't worry, I'll pass your message to the right person in the team...
That said, I recognise my knowledge of rotaries is still pretty theoretical. That's the all point of this interesting project : getting practical experience on these beasts.
Cheers,
Fabrice
That said, I recognise my knowledge of rotaries is still pretty theoretical. That's the all point of this interesting project : getting practical experience on these beasts.
Cheers,
Fabrice
10-03-2006 | 05:46 AM
#40
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For info, we have the cooling of the Renesis working fine now. We also got a podium (2nd place in our class) in August.
Some imporvements have been made to the car for the next races this coming weekend (7/8 - Oct) : the gearbox is now with racing gears and dogs (is that the right word? - the syncro were removed), better coolong air flows, better aero...
Engine hasn't been modified at all.
Next major step would be to build a second car in 2007. I have a engine (naked engine) and we plan to move from the original S-DAIS manifold and design a simpler one instead.
See here for the start of a discussion with RG on that topic :
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...3&page=2&pp=30
The technical requirements are :
- simpler, cheaper design
- minimum loss of perf compared to original part
I'm thinking about :
- getting rid of the SSV, that's for sure
- getting rid of the VDI, maybe
- move from a electric motor actuated APV to a solenoid / vaccum actuation
The design would be simple : think of a large plenum with 6 relatively short (around 450 mm) tubes going to the 6 ports. Throttle valves would open the Auxiliary ports at high engine speeds. And that's it!
If you have any comment on this, especially on some unknown (to me anyway) parameters like :
- is it a right decision to get rid of the VDI?
- how large should the plenum be? The airbox on the RX-8 is huge compared to the rest of the intake system.
- what about the lengths of the intake ducts (450 mm = around 18")?
Cheers,
Fabrice
Some imporvements have been made to the car for the next races this coming weekend (7/8 - Oct) : the gearbox is now with racing gears and dogs (is that the right word? - the syncro were removed), better coolong air flows, better aero...
Engine hasn't been modified at all.
Next major step would be to build a second car in 2007. I have a engine (naked engine) and we plan to move from the original S-DAIS manifold and design a simpler one instead.
See here for the start of a discussion with RG on that topic :
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...3&page=2&pp=30
The technical requirements are :
- simpler, cheaper design
- minimum loss of perf compared to original part
I'm thinking about :
- getting rid of the SSV, that's for sure
- getting rid of the VDI, maybe
- move from a electric motor actuated APV to a solenoid / vaccum actuation
The design would be simple : think of a large plenum with 6 relatively short (around 450 mm) tubes going to the 6 ports. Throttle valves would open the Auxiliary ports at high engine speeds. And that's it!
If you have any comment on this, especially on some unknown (to me anyway) parameters like :
- is it a right decision to get rid of the VDI?
- how large should the plenum be? The airbox on the RX-8 is huge compared to the rest of the intake system.
- what about the lengths of the intake ducts (450 mm = around 18")?
Cheers,
Fabrice
10-03-2006 | 09:15 AM
#41
Originally Posted by Rasputin
For info, we have the cooling of the Renesis working fine now. We also got a podium (2nd place in our class) in August.
Some imporvements have been made to the car for the next races this coming weekend (7/8 - Oct) : the gearbox is now with racing gears and dogs (is that the right word? - the syncro were removed), better coolong air flows, better aero...
Engine hasn't been modified at all.
Next major step would be to build a second car in 2007. I have a engine (naked engine) and we plan to move from the original S-DAIS manifold and design a simpler one instead.
See here for the start of a discussion with RG on that topic :
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...3&page=2&pp=30
The technical requirements are :
- simpler, cheaper design
- minimum loss of perf compared to original part
I'm thinking about :
- getting rid of the SSV, that's for sure
- getting rid of the VDI, maybe
- move from a electric motor actuated APV to a solenoid / vaccum actuation
The design would be simple : think of a large plenum with 6 relatively short (around 450 mm) tubes going to the 6 ports. Throttle valves would open the Auxiliary ports at high engine speeds. And that's it!
If you have any comment on this, especially on some unknown (to me anyway) parameters like :
- is it a right decision to get rid of the VDI?
- how large should the plenum be? The airbox on the RX-8 is huge compared to the rest of the intake system.
- what about the lengths of the intake ducts (450 mm = around 18")?
Cheers,
Fabrice
Some imporvements have been made to the car for the next races this coming weekend (7/8 - Oct) : the gearbox is now with racing gears and dogs (is that the right word? - the syncro were removed), better coolong air flows, better aero...
Engine hasn't been modified at all.
Next major step would be to build a second car in 2007. I have a engine (naked engine) and we plan to move from the original S-DAIS manifold and design a simpler one instead.
See here for the start of a discussion with RG on that topic :
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...3&page=2&pp=30
The technical requirements are :
- simpler, cheaper design
- minimum loss of perf compared to original part
I'm thinking about :
- getting rid of the SSV, that's for sure
- getting rid of the VDI, maybe
- move from a electric motor actuated APV to a solenoid / vaccum actuation
The design would be simple : think of a large plenum with 6 relatively short (around 450 mm) tubes going to the 6 ports. Throttle valves would open the Auxiliary ports at high engine speeds. And that's it!
If you have any comment on this, especially on some unknown (to me anyway) parameters like :
- is it a right decision to get rid of the VDI?
- how large should the plenum be? The airbox on the RX-8 is huge compared to the rest of the intake system.
- what about the lengths of the intake ducts (450 mm = around 18")?
Cheers,
Fabrice
I don't know any of the answers to all of your questions but as far as the transmission gos dogs is the right term.
Where in Europe are you from anyways?
Oh and....
This thread is worthless without pics! Show us some pictures of your car!!!!
10-03-2006 | 11:06 AM
#45
Originally Posted by Rasputin
Thanks Deamicls,
Here are some pics of the car.
I'm from Belgium. The car races in France.
Cheers,
Fabrice
Here are some pics of the car.
I'm from Belgium. The car races in France.
Cheers,
Fabrice
Allez Les Diables!
10-03-2006 | 11:42 AM
#46
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From: portland oregon
Hi Fabrice- sorry i havent seen this thread before. it looks like an excellent runner now that you have the cooling sorted out. did you go with a Star Mazda-esque set-up with water on one side and oil on the other? ill put my intake thoughts in the other thread you linked to.
10-03-2006 | 12:35 PM
#47
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From: Europe
Zoom, no problem.
Re cooling, I suggested a Star-Mazda type of solution but the team manager went for another one with 2 smaller water coolers.
I'll have a look at the other thread too. Note that I moved away from that thread as it seemed more dedicated to an installtion on the RX-8, not to a full-racing custom manifold.
Deamicls,
I was born in Brussels and have lived in Overijse until 1995, not far from Rixensart and Genval which I often visited as I had a few friends in Rixensart. I know live in the Walloon part of the country, oustide the city of Huy. So I effectively lived in the 3 Regions of Belgium. My native language is French by the way.
Fabrice
Re cooling, I suggested a Star-Mazda type of solution but the team manager went for another one with 2 smaller water coolers.
I'll have a look at the other thread too. Note that I moved away from that thread as it seemed more dedicated to an installtion on the RX-8, not to a full-racing custom manifold.
Deamicls,
I was born in Brussels and have lived in Overijse until 1995, not far from Rixensart and Genval which I often visited as I had a few friends in Rixensart. I know live in the Walloon part of the country, oustide the city of Huy. So I effectively lived in the 3 Regions of Belgium. My native language is French by the way.
Fabrice
10-03-2006 | 01:03 PM
#48
Originally Posted by Rasputin
Zoom, no problem.
Deamicls,
I was born in Brussels and have lived in Overijse until 1995, not far from Rixensart and Genval which I often visited as I had a few friends in Rixensart. I know live in the Walloon part of the country, oustide the city of Huy. So I effectively lived in the 3 Regions of Belgium. My native language is French by the way.
Fabrice
Deamicls,
I was born in Brussels and have lived in Overijse until 1995, not far from Rixensart and Genval which I often visited as I had a few friends in Rixensart. I know live in the Walloon part of the country, oustide the city of Huy. So I effectively lived in the 3 Regions of Belgium. My native language is French by the way.
Fabrice
alright, back on topic. Sorry.
Last edited by deamicls; 10-03-2006 at 01:20 PM.
10-03-2006 | 01:46 PM
#49
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From: Europe
Originally Posted by deamicls
alright, back on topic. Sorry.
Originally Posted by deamicls
Thats really nice to hear. I am french speaking as well and overijse is great place. I'm sure you already know a really good restaurant called Istas. The the best steak ardennais. I come back every year since we still have our house at Genval and Istas is always the first restaurant I visit. .
Salut,
Fabrice
10-03-2006 | 02:28 PM
#50
I'll have to say hellothen! At least it'll get me to write and read french again which I haven't done in 9 years. 
Je
Tu
Il
Nous
Vous
Ils
....brings back some bad memories. Gives me goose bumps.
Je
Tu
Il
Nous
Vous
Ils
....brings back some bad memories. Gives me goose bumps.
Last edited by deamicls; 10-03-2006 at 02:46 PM.