The STX thread!
11-02-2012, 01:58 AM
#2676
Cool car, that was my first event. I only Apon out once lol.
I cant wait to go back and fix my shitty alignment thats practically a drift alignment..and put on tires that are better than half worn out all seasons.
. guess you can forget about the MSR and Solstice moving out any time soon
11-07-2012, 09:30 AM
#2679
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I would love to make it my first national event and 12/60 for stx but my local group is running the same weekend. Good luck to all, hopefully you tear it up.
11-15-2012, 11:05 AM
#2683
One thing that was improved alot was the sound quality.
11-20-2012, 10:08 PM
#2685
it only went out as an ST proposal
I wrote a letter expressing confusion about it going out as a proposal. It should be a simple SEB clarification for Stock as only if specified by the manufacturer; a standard Stock class position, which would then apply to ST as well.
I wrote a letter expressing confusion about it going out as a proposal. It should be a simple SEB clarification for Stock as only if specified by the manufacturer; a standard Stock class position, which would then apply to ST as well.
11-21-2012, 08:58 AM
#2686
Fuels are covered separately under section 3.6, and the current wording specifcally lists E85 as allowed for Stock and ST. IIRC up until a couple years ago the wording was more ambiguous (as it is currently for 100 octane unleaded).
11-21-2012, 02:13 PM
#2687
This is what the rule actually states:
A. Stock and Street Touring category vehicles will use service station
pump fuel only. Pump fuel is defined as that which is “Federally approved
for use on public highways.” This includes the pump fuel
known as E85, but does not allow racing-type fuels which are available
at service station pumps.
pump fuel only. Pump fuel is defined as that which is “Federally approved
for use on public highways.” This includes the pump fuel
known as E85, but does not allow racing-type fuels which are available
at service station pumps.
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 11-21-2012 at 03:19 PM.
11-21-2012, 05:56 PM
#2688
Team,
I don't disagree with you in concept, but the rulebook wording was clearly changed specifically to address ST competitors who were already using E85. The only factory fuel flex vehicles at Nationals were pulling a trailer!
I don't disagree with you in concept, but the rulebook wording was clearly changed specifically to address ST competitors who were already using E85. The only factory fuel flex vehicles at Nationals were pulling a trailer!
11-24-2012, 09:49 AM
#2690
I suppose technically they could issue a "clarification" on this to bypass the member input, but my point is that this would be a reversal of a previous position (not the first time, I know) which is why I think they put it out there for comment.
Also, said clarification would require a new rule change to Section 15 (Street Prepared) to allow non-factory authorized fuels there (e.g. leaded race gas) in order to be consistent.
Also, said clarification would require a new rule change to Section 15 (Street Prepared) to allow non-factory authorized fuels there (e.g. leaded race gas) in order to be consistent.
11-25-2012, 09:54 AM
#2691
Its not a bypass. Its a Stock issue that has an impact in ST, nobody thought much about it before submitting it as an ST proposal which seems to be standard these days. You can file a protest in ST about because IMO theres nothing in rules that specifically says you can do it and its pretty much guaranteed that the manufacturer doesn't allow it for most of the cars we're talking about.
I disagree about SP. Re-read 3.6. The wording for SP is different than the Stock/ST wording.
In fact, you just gave me the idea to submit a second letter to the SEB/SAC asking for a Stock class clarification on ethanol level in fuels.
.
I disagree about SP. Re-read 3.6. The wording for SP is different than the Stock/ST wording.
In fact, you just gave me the idea to submit a second letter to the SEB/SAC asking for a Stock class clarification on ethanol level in fuels.
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 11-25-2012 at 10:02 AM.
11-26-2012, 09:23 PM
#2692
11-27-2012, 12:21 AM
#2693
I can appreciate your position. Wordsmithing requires a very technical understanding of language use.
3.6.A simply states what fuel Stock and ST will use, and then defines what that fuel is. The Stock argument is that you can't use any ethanol content above what the manufacturer specifies. Most any manufacturer now and within the last decade+ very specifically states in the OM not to use fuel greater than E10 unless it is a flex fuel vehicle. It is a non-allowance for race fuel, not an allowance to do whatever you want.
3.6.B difference for SP is the word "may". The word "may" defines an allowance to use any of those fuels, plus use any diesel fuel or type of gasoline. Methanol whether 100% or a blend, E100, or any other hydrid fuel is not allowed.
3.6 FUEL
A. Stock and Street Touring category vehicles will use service station
pump fuel only. Pump fuel is defined as that which is “Federally approved
for use on public highways.” This includes the pump fuel
known as E85, but does not allow racing-type fuels which are available
at service station pumps.
B. In addition to fuels which are allowed by 3.6.A, Street Prepared,
Street Modified, Prepared, and Modified category vehicles may use
diesel fuel or any grade of gasoline. Gasolines consist entirely of
hydrocarbon compounds. Gasoline may contain antioxidants, metal
deactivators, corrosion inhibitors, and lead alkyl compounds such as
tetraethyl lead. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives are prohibited
except for those originally present in service station pump fuel.
Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing
3.6.A simply states what fuel Stock and ST will use, and then defines what that fuel is. The Stock argument is that you can't use any ethanol content above what the manufacturer specifies. Most any manufacturer now and within the last decade+ very specifically states in the OM not to use fuel greater than E10 unless it is a flex fuel vehicle. It is a non-allowance for race fuel, not an allowance to do whatever you want.
3.6.B difference for SP is the word "may". The word "may" defines an allowance to use any of those fuels, plus use any diesel fuel or type of gasoline. Methanol whether 100% or a blend, E100, or any other hydrid fuel is not allowed.
3.6 FUEL
A. Stock and Street Touring category vehicles will use service station
pump fuel only. Pump fuel is defined as that which is “Federally approved
for use on public highways.” This includes the pump fuel
known as E85, but does not allow racing-type fuels which are available
at service station pumps.
B. In addition to fuels which are allowed by 3.6.A, Street Prepared,
Street Modified, Prepared, and Modified category vehicles may use
diesel fuel or any grade of gasoline. Gasolines consist entirely of
hydrocarbon compounds. Gasoline may contain antioxidants, metal
deactivators, corrosion inhibitors, and lead alkyl compounds such as
tetraethyl lead. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives are prohibited
except for those originally present in service station pump fuel.
Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing
11-29-2012, 05:03 PM
#2695
IMO 3.6.A is a dis-allowance for race fuel, not an allowance to do as you please with street legal fuel. The defining moment will be whether it is clarified as such in Stock 13.0.
In the case of the RX-8, and as I've suggested here in the past, is that the OE tune is so rich that you could use ethanol content to "effectively tune" the AFR for more power. I would say E35 or so on most RX8s. Since tuning the actual ECU is not permitted in Stock the current rulemakers likely never considered this before. It doesn't get by the craftiest of competitors though ....
In the case of the RX-8, and as I've suggested here in the past, is that the OE tune is so rich that you could use ethanol content to "effectively tune" the AFR for more power. I would say E35 or so on most RX8s. Since tuning the actual ECU is not permitted in Stock the current rulemakers likely never considered this before. It doesn't get by the craftiest of competitors though ....
11-29-2012, 07:45 PM
#2696
[quote=TeamRX8;4389541]The defining moment will be whether it is clarified as such in Stock 13.0.
....QUOTE]
I hope you are right, but I don't expect this.
In my letter!
....QUOTE]
I hope you are right, but I don't expect this.
01-03-2013, 02:01 PM
#2699
Hopefully something happens to clarify or fix the rule. I'm sure most feel similar with not wanting to deal with mixing E85 to maximize power.
01-03-2013, 08:31 PM
#2700
everyone except BRZ and FRS owners
my bigger issue at the moment is getting my shocks straightened out. Apparently another front shock blew the shaft seal at Gateway and the rear shocks, which were rebuilt just prior are alsoshowing excessive oil on the shaft. Just sent them out to Koni NA today. Hoping they can figure out what Truechoice has repeatedly been unable to resolve.
my bigger issue at the moment is getting my shocks straightened out. Apparently another front shock blew the shaft seal at Gateway and the rear shocks, which were rebuilt just prior are alsoshowing excessive oil on the shaft. Just sent them out to Koni NA today. Hoping they can figure out what Truechoice has repeatedly been unable to resolve.