to those who thinks HP don't make a difference
09-06-2007, 11:26 PM
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to those who thinks HP don't make a difference
I had a chance to datalog a few cars this past weekend at VIR. Based on a rough comparsion (different driver). The RX-8 might only be down about 50hp, but the car carries 15mph slower down the straight than the Z. During the same straight, the Z was also able to pick up 1.5 sec against the 8. The Z06 Vette was almost 3.5+ seconds faster than the RX-8. Just random notes!
09-07-2007, 07:50 AM
#7
to those who thinks *HP to Weight Ratio* don't make a difference
I had a chance to datalog a few cars this past weekend at VIR. Based on a rough comparsion (different driver). The RX-8 might only be down about 50hp, but the car carries 15mph slower down the straight than the Z. During the same straight, the Z was also able to pick up 1.5 sec against the 8. The Z06 Vette was almost 3.5+ seconds faster than the RX-8. Just random notes!
09-07-2007, 08:18 AM
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who stated that hp doesn't make a difference?
maybe that, 'any more hp can't really be drawn from the renesis, at least not a lot' <-now that's accurate.
do you think that we are all fanboys and think are 8's are the fastest in a straight? do you think that 8 owners generally bought this car to drag race? if you read around more, there are more auto-xers/track addicts here than many other forums (besides lotus, miata, etc.), so we know a thing or two about how slow the rx8s are in a straight line.
I guarantee your little study between 350z and corvette wouldn't last long at the auto-x events I go to because I'm a .5 second away from matching the times to a vette on slicks, and no z can keep up with my times, and I've only got 53.8 auto-x miles; whereas, the vette has more auto-x miles than city miles. as well as lotus, but it's driven by a 17 y/o with barely any driving skills...but he's getting there!
maybe that, 'any more hp can't really be drawn from the renesis, at least not a lot' <-now that's accurate.
do you think that we are all fanboys and think are 8's are the fastest in a straight? do you think that 8 owners generally bought this car to drag race? if you read around more, there are more auto-xers/track addicts here than many other forums (besides lotus, miata, etc.), so we know a thing or two about how slow the rx8s are in a straight line.
I guarantee your little study between 350z and corvette wouldn't last long at the auto-x events I go to because I'm a .5 second away from matching the times to a vette on slicks, and no z can keep up with my times, and I've only got 53.8 auto-x miles; whereas, the vette has more auto-x miles than city miles. as well as lotus, but it's driven by a 17 y/o with barely any driving skills...but he's getting there!
09-07-2007, 08:45 AM
#10
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I had a chance to datalog a few cars this past weekend at VIR. Based on a rough comparsion (different driver). The RX-8 might only be down about 50hp, but the car carries 15mph slower down the straight than the Z. During the same straight, the Z was also able to pick up 1.5 sec against the 8. The Z06 Vette was almost 3.5+ seconds faster than the RX-8. Just random notes!
May be at a ride with almost no straight line (touge) horse power does not mean so much as car balance.
09-07-2007, 09:18 AM
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He's as bad as Can
09-07-2007, 12:17 PM
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C&D tested the grand course, not the full course. The backstraight is not used on the grand course, they bypass that part for an infield.
Given equal driver, the 8 is down a gurantee 4 sec from the Z and more than 7 sec from the 2.5 straights alone. Unless the car turns like a go-kart, it is not going to make up that time. I am not trying to ruin people's dream, but that's real data. I didn't compare corner times because of different tires and driver, but I just want to show how a 50hp deficit equals to from a stopwatch point of view.
Given equal driver, the 8 is down a gurantee 4 sec from the Z and more than 7 sec from the 2.5 straights alone. Unless the car turns like a go-kart, it is not going to make up that time. I am not trying to ruin people's dream, but that's real data. I didn't compare corner times because of different tires and driver, but I just want to show how a 50hp deficit equals to from a stopwatch point of view.
09-07-2007, 12:19 PM
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I am not arguing that. I am simply stating the fact that the car will be down by that much to start a lap. I am not knocking anybody, I am simply stating how the HP stacks up in terms of time.
09-07-2007, 12:59 PM
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There's only so much one can do with a high track out speed coming out of a type 1 turn. HP makes up for it at a certain point and that point isn't too hard to surpass. This is why a good exit speed out of a type 1 turn on to a long straight is essential in Spec. racing, where hp is "equal" amongst cars.
09-07-2007, 01:02 PM
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Given equal driver, the 8 is down a gurantee 4 sec from the Z and more than 7 sec from the 2.5 straights alone. Unless the car turns like a go-kart, it is not going to make up that time. I am not trying to ruin people's dream, but that's real data. I didn't compare corner times because of different tires and driver, but I just want to show how a 50hp deficit equals to from a stopwatch point of view.
A heavier car can lose more than one second PER CORNER to an RX-8. A heavier car, with a nose-heavy imbalance will corner slower than the RX-8, even if it does pull an advantage in time and speed down the straights. The more laps there are on the tires and the brakes, the closer the margin will be on the straights because the heavier car will get progressively slower in the corners, without gaining the ability to accelerate any harder down the straights. True speed (and time) is lost in the corners, not on the straights. With the exception of a very long straight, on a track, a car will spend MORE time in the corners and braking zones than on the straights. Period. The RX-8 rules the corners and the braking zones.
Speedsoure RX-8, ST-class, 3-time Champions, any questions? BTW, didn't Speedsource go to VIR and WIN a race one year? I forget...
An RX-8 with an improved suspension, lighter wheels, and better tires than stock will obliterate a stock Z (the stock Z comes with better and wider tires than the RX-8) on most tracks, while selling for less money even with the modifications! Sure you can upgrade the Z too, but still, if we're talking dollars-to-performance, the Z starts out in the hole. It isn't the fastest in its price-range, it isn't the best handling, but it is a solid start. Nissan aimed for the 911, and fell short. My Base 6MT was $25,800 before taxes, and before rebates. A 350Z starts around $28,000 before taxes, and doesn't have any rebates. That sort of difference buys a LOT of goodies.
A new Corvette IS a fancy fiberglass go-cart for the street, with a power-to-weight ratio to match! It's an unfair fight to say that a 5.7 liter, 400-HP car with perfect front/rear balance and very sticky/wide stock tires is faster than an RX-8. It's also faster than 95% of the other vehicles in the world, from any era. I can also drive a nice RX-8 and a new pickup truck for the cost of one Corvette! Again, for price-vs-performance, the RX-8 is a very good value.
09-07-2007, 01:20 PM
#20
He's as bad as Can
There's only so much one can do with a high track out speed coming out of a type 1 turn. HP makes up for it at a certain point and that point isn't too hard to surpass. This is why a good exit speed out of a type 1 turn on to a long straight is essential in Spec. racing, where hp is "equal" amongst cars.
Last edited by expo1; 08-31-2008 at 10:21 PM.
09-07-2007, 01:26 PM
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You are misrepresenting your numbers by pulling a figure from just one or two points on the track.
A heavier car can lose more than one second PER CORNER to an RX-8. A heavier car, with a nose-heavy imbalance will corner slower than the RX-8, even if it does pull an advantage in time and speed down the straights. The more laps there are on the tires and the brakes, the closer the margin will be on the straights because the heavier car will get progressively slower in the corners, without gaining the ability to accelerate any harder down the straights. True speed (and time) is lost in the corners, not on the straights. With the exception of a very long straight, on a track, a car will spend MORE time in the corners and braking zones than on the straights. Period. The RX-8 rules the corners and the braking zones.
Speedsoure RX-8, ST-class, 3-time Champions, any questions? BTW, didn't Speedsource go to VIR and WIN a race one year? I forget...
An RX-8 with an improved suspension, lighter wheels, and better tires than stock will obliterate a stock Z (the stock Z comes with better and wider tires than the RX-8) on most tracks, while selling for less money even with the modifications! Sure you can upgrade the Z too, but still, if we're talking dollars-to-performance, the Z starts out in the hole. It isn't the fastest in its price-range, it isn't the best handling, but it is a solid start. Nissan aimed for the 911, and fell short. My Base 6MT was $25,800 before taxes, and before rebates. A 350Z starts around $28,000 before taxes, and doesn't have any rebates. That sort of difference buys a LOT of goodies.
A new Corvette IS a fancy fiberglass go-cart for the street, with a power-to-weight ratio to match! It's an unfair fight to say that a 5.7 liter, 400-HP car with perfect front/rear balance and very sticky/wide stock tires is faster than an RX-8. It's also faster than 95% of the other vehicles in the world, from any era. I can also drive a nice RX-8 and a new pickup truck for the cost of one Corvette! Again, for price-vs-performance, the RX-8 is a very good value.
A heavier car can lose more than one second PER CORNER to an RX-8. A heavier car, with a nose-heavy imbalance will corner slower than the RX-8, even if it does pull an advantage in time and speed down the straights. The more laps there are on the tires and the brakes, the closer the margin will be on the straights because the heavier car will get progressively slower in the corners, without gaining the ability to accelerate any harder down the straights. True speed (and time) is lost in the corners, not on the straights. With the exception of a very long straight, on a track, a car will spend MORE time in the corners and braking zones than on the straights. Period. The RX-8 rules the corners and the braking zones.
Speedsoure RX-8, ST-class, 3-time Champions, any questions? BTW, didn't Speedsource go to VIR and WIN a race one year? I forget...
An RX-8 with an improved suspension, lighter wheels, and better tires than stock will obliterate a stock Z (the stock Z comes with better and wider tires than the RX-8) on most tracks, while selling for less money even with the modifications! Sure you can upgrade the Z too, but still, if we're talking dollars-to-performance, the Z starts out in the hole. It isn't the fastest in its price-range, it isn't the best handling, but it is a solid start. Nissan aimed for the 911, and fell short. My Base 6MT was $25,800 before taxes, and before rebates. A 350Z starts around $28,000 before taxes, and doesn't have any rebates. That sort of difference buys a LOT of goodies.
A new Corvette IS a fancy fiberglass go-cart for the street, with a power-to-weight ratio to match! It's an unfair fight to say that a 5.7 liter, 400-HP car with perfect front/rear balance and very sticky/wide stock tires is faster than an RX-8. It's also faster than 95% of the other vehicles in the world, from any era. I can also drive a nice RX-8 and a new pickup truck for the cost of one Corvette! Again, for price-vs-performance, the RX-8 is a very good value.
09-07-2007, 01:29 PM
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Your post brings to mind my dilemma I will be facing in 10 days, Turn seven at the Glenn. Notice the elevation change on the map. You can also see it in this Quicktime vid The time marks for turn 7 is 1:30 & 4:21. but that is one of the things that makes the Glen such a great track.
09-07-2007, 01:44 PM
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