to those who thinks HP don't make a difference
09-11-2007, 11:42 PM
#51
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the topgear test track is no bigger than an autox, try stepping up to a real course. The RX-8 would get raped down the backstraight at the Glen The esses should be WOT, so the handling advantage isn't going to show.
09-12-2007, 07:11 AM
#52
He's as bad as Can
In this thread are links to about 85 minutes (4 sessions) of my 8 at the Glenn. I was only passed on the backstraight once, by a LS1 powered FC with a good driver. If you can take turn 1 fast the esses & backstraight are set up quite well.
09-12-2007, 10:09 PM
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09-13-2007, 06:30 AM
#55
He's as bad as Can
09-13-2007, 10:42 AM
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HP really only matters when you're racing against people in the higher levels of racing. I was at Gingerman this past labor day and I was passing all types of cars that shoudl have been destroying me. I passed a Z60 vette, an EVO (he passed me back but I held my own in the corners) and a 6.0 GTO. All of which have more than double my 176whp. All of these people including myself were begginers. In that situation hp didn't really matter. If you can't use all of the hp that you have then you don't need more. If you look at an advanced group hp matters becasue more of them will be taking the closer to perfect line and be able to fully use the HP their cars have. The problem is people start modding thier cars thinking they will need a ridiculous amount of hp just to keep up and end up being slower simply because they don't know how to drive. I was within 2 sec of my frined with an S2000 and he was on race rubber and has lots more track experiance than I do. I was on Eagle F1 GS-D3's and it was my first real track day.
That being said the course also matters. If you have the Top Secret 1200hp+ Supra on an tight AutoX course you will probably be much slower than well a tuned Mini. Put those same cars on Road America and its ridiculously long straights and the outcome is obvious. Most of us here don't think hp doesn't matter. Most of us here are novice/intermediate drivers in the grand scheme of things and hp doesn't matter at our level.
expo1: Have you ever been to Gingerman and if so what were your times?
That being said the course also matters. If you have the Top Secret 1200hp+ Supra on an tight AutoX course you will probably be much slower than well a tuned Mini. Put those same cars on Road America and its ridiculously long straights and the outcome is obvious. Most of us here don't think hp doesn't matter. Most of us here are novice/intermediate drivers in the grand scheme of things and hp doesn't matter at our level.
expo1: Have you ever been to Gingerman and if so what were your times?
09-13-2007, 10:54 AM
#57
He's as bad as Can
Nope, Living in New Jersey the tracks I am willing to drive two are Pocono, Watkins Glen & Summit point. That soon will change, two more road courses both in NJ are being built.
The VIR people are building a huge complex called ThunderBolt
Raceway Park also wants to add a small road course to their other tracks also.
09-13-2007, 11:34 AM
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I did the Glen with the inner loop on the Miata, I only did the Z without it.
Last edited by tmak26b; 09-13-2007 at 11:40 AM.
09-13-2007, 05:04 PM
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HP really only matters when you're racing against people in the higher levels of racing. I was at Gingerman this past labor day and I was passing all types of cars that shoudl have been destroying me. I passed a Z60 vette, an EVO (he passed me back but I held my own in the corners) and a 6.0 GTO. All of which have more than double my 176whp. All of these people including myself were begginers. In that situation hp didn't really matter. If you can't use all of the hp that you have then you don't need more. If you look at an advanced group hp matters becasue more of them will be taking the closer to perfect line and be able to fully use the HP their cars have. The problem is people start modding thier cars thinking they will need a ridiculous amount of hp just to keep up and end up being slower simply because they don't know how to drive. I was within 2 sec of my frined with an S2000 and he was on race rubber and has lots more track experiance than I do. I was on Eagle F1 GS-D3's and it was my first real track day.
That being said the course also matters. If you have the Top Secret 1200hp+ Supra on an tight AutoX course you will probably be much slower than well a tuned Mini. Put those same cars on Road America and its ridiculously long straights and the outcome is obvious. Most of us here don't think hp doesn't matter. Most of us here are novice/intermediate drivers in the grand scheme of things and hp doesn't matter at our level.
expo1: Have you ever been to Gingerman and if so what were your times?
That being said the course also matters. If you have the Top Secret 1200hp+ Supra on an tight AutoX course you will probably be much slower than well a tuned Mini. Put those same cars on Road America and its ridiculously long straights and the outcome is obvious. Most of us here don't think hp doesn't matter. Most of us here are novice/intermediate drivers in the grand scheme of things and hp doesn't matter at our level.
expo1: Have you ever been to Gingerman and if so what were your times?
Racing is another animal altogether
HP matters in racing to a certain extent. In SPEC racing, 15 hp can mean a huge difference. In some high horsepower classes, 15hp is a non-factor. It's all relative. In racing, you're going to be running against cars of similar power to weight ratio.
Last edited by SouthFL; 09-13-2007 at 05:08 PM.
09-13-2007, 07:43 PM
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Nope, Living in New Jersey the tracks I am willing to drive two are Pocono, Watkins Glen & Summit point. That soon will change, two more road courses both in NJ are being built.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
The VIR people are building a huge complex called ThunderBolt
Raceway Park also wants to add a small road course to their other tracks also.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
The VIR people are building a huge complex called ThunderBolt
Raceway Park also wants to add a small road course to their other tracks also.
What clubs to you run with?
Last edited by devildog1679; 09-13-2007 at 07:47 PM.
09-13-2007, 08:43 PM
#61
He's as bad as Can
Nice driving on your vids. I'll be moving to Princeton in a year and glad to know the east coast has some nice tracks as well as 8 owners willing to drive them. I'm driving out to NYC in May to visit family, this will be a perfect time to squeez in a track day What clubs to you run with?
What clubs to you run with?Once ThunderBolt is open you will also be no more than 5 1/2 from 4 tracks. Start lookin for those R-compounds.
09-13-2007, 08:54 PM
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Http://www.pdadrivingschool.com/ In May they are in full swing. Should have dates at Lime Rock, Pocono & the Glenn. You might also check with some BMW, Corvette & Porsche Clubs. Many let other makes drive with them so they can fill up the slots.
Once ThunderBolt is open you will also be no more than 5 1/2 from 4 tracks. Start lookin for those R-compounds.
Once ThunderBolt is open you will also be no more than 5 1/2 from 4 tracks. Start lookin for those R-compounds.
09-13-2007, 10:08 PM
#63
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You're not racing anything in your street car on the track on an HPDE day.
Racing is another animal altogether
HP matters in racing to a certain extent. In SPEC racing, 15 hp can mean a huge difference. In some high horsepower classes, 15hp is a non-factor. It's all relative. In racing, you're going to be running against cars of similar power to weight ratio.
Racing is another animal altogether
HP matters in racing to a certain extent. In SPEC racing, 15 hp can mean a huge difference. In some high horsepower classes, 15hp is a non-factor. It's all relative. In racing, you're going to be running against cars of similar power to weight ratio.
Last edited by JB_Rotary; 09-13-2007 at 10:11 PM.
09-13-2007, 10:42 PM
#64
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that's why lap times are better judge against driver's performance and car performance. passing cars in a session really don't mean a thing given the fact that you are running with a bunch of amatures. As an instructor, I am not suppose to clock the cars. Yet at the same time, I have to keep that in the back of my mind so I know if the student is improving. I don't tell my students to go 100%, but they better be ready to do the correct things as I will make sure they come out as a better driver than before the day.
Part of the reason why I used the long straight in VIR as the HP comparsion because you come out of a relatively slow corner that is almost the same for everyone. I can't compare the front straight due to the speed difference I can generate coming out of the rollercoaster.
The best way to tell if you are fast is compare your lap times against the fastest time in cars similar to yours. You are better off doing that than to compare against your buddy.
Also check the class your car is in for time trials, you can at least use that as a guideline on how fast you need to be. I think the RX-8 is a TTD or TTE car. The 993 or 996 are TTB cars if i recall correctly.
Part of the reason why I used the long straight in VIR as the HP comparsion because you come out of a relatively slow corner that is almost the same for everyone. I can't compare the front straight due to the speed difference I can generate coming out of the rollercoaster.
The best way to tell if you are fast is compare your lap times against the fastest time in cars similar to yours. You are better off doing that than to compare against your buddy.
Also check the class your car is in for time trials, you can at least use that as a guideline on how fast you need to be. I think the RX-8 is a TTD or TTE car. The 993 or 996 are TTB cars if i recall correctly.
HP really only matters when you're racing against people in the higher levels of racing. I was at Gingerman this past labor day and I was passing all types of cars that shoudl have been destroying me. I passed a Z60 vette, an EVO (he passed me back but I held my own in the corners) and a 6.0 GTO. All of which have more than double my 176whp. All of these people including myself were begginers. In that situation hp didn't really matter. If you can't use all of the hp that you have then you don't need more. If you look at an advanced group hp matters becasue more of them will be taking the closer to perfect line and be able to fully use the HP their cars have. The problem is people start modding thier cars thinking they will need a ridiculous amount of hp just to keep up and end up being slower simply because they don't know how to drive. I was within 2 sec of my frined with an S2000 and he was on race rubber and has lots more track experiance than I do. I was on Eagle F1 GS-D3's and it was my first real track day.
That being said the course also matters. If you have the Top Secret 1200hp+ Supra on an tight AutoX course you will probably be much slower than well a tuned Mini. Put those same cars on Road America and its ridiculously long straights and the outcome is obvious. Most of us here don't think hp doesn't matter. Most of us here are novice/intermediate drivers in the grand scheme of things and hp doesn't matter at our level.
expo1: Have you ever been to Gingerman and if so what were your times?
That being said the course also matters. If you have the Top Secret 1200hp+ Supra on an tight AutoX course you will probably be much slower than well a tuned Mini. Put those same cars on Road America and its ridiculously long straights and the outcome is obvious. Most of us here don't think hp doesn't matter. Most of us here are novice/intermediate drivers in the grand scheme of things and hp doesn't matter at our level.
expo1: Have you ever been to Gingerman and if so what were your times?
......So true
09-17-2007, 11:15 PM
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09-18-2007, 08:30 PM
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There will always be guys with cars that are more capable than the drivers, so it doesn't matter if it is track or autox. Regardless of what type of racing, the higher HP cars are always classed higher because they are usually capable of going faster. They might do it differently than you, but the final lap time is the best comparsion.
Certain road courses are technical, they can be just as fast paced as your normal autox. They are both fun and I do them both, but you have got to be kidding to say autox is harder than driving on the track.
Certain road courses are technical, they can be just as fast paced as your normal autox. They are both fun and I do them both, but you have got to be kidding to say autox is harder than driving on the track.
09-19-2007, 09:34 PM
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09-19-2007, 10:02 PM
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To others, of course HP matters BUT so does steering feel, a smooth shifter and buttery engine. With me as a driver on tracks I know, the base C6 is faster than my 8 period. It doesn't feel as good doing it but it is faster.
Funny thing is that there is an equal pissing match going on in the corvetteforum.com - only the testoterone is flowing in the other direction
10-02-2007, 06:38 PM
#73
Power!!
10-02-2007, 07:07 PM
#74
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Yeah speaking of Thunderbolt, i personally know the owner of the soon to be track, hes a pretty cool guy named Lee Brahin. Hes races vintage cars in SVRA and HSR, and i work for a race team that competes in those racing series.
10-06-2007, 06:22 PM
#75
HP makes a huge diffrence, I got to ride in a c6 Z06 this Friday at Putnam park, and that car is mad 140 on the straight, and the driver was braking early and wasn't fully driving that car, the rx-8 got up to 109 thats with late as braking. However I did pass a regular c6 after the 4rth corner