Track Days/Time Trial vs. Autocross
#26
I'll usually let off at 120mph at track days, with the mentality being that I really don't need to be going any quicker in a street car.
First thing people ask me is how fast I go at the track. I respond "doesn't really matter, it's more about how good you brake and turn." If I were in a track prepared car, I'd search for that highest possible terminal speed down a straight before entering the next brake zone.
As for competitive edge. Nobody is handing me a trophy, but shedding 5 seconds per lap at Sebring last year sure keeps my interest peaked.
First thing people ask me is how fast I go at the track. I respond "doesn't really matter, it's more about how good you brake and turn." If I were in a track prepared car, I'd search for that highest possible terminal speed down a straight before entering the next brake zone.
As for competitive edge. Nobody is handing me a trophy, but shedding 5 seconds per lap at Sebring last year sure keeps my interest peaked.
Last edited by SouthFL; 01-25-2008 at 08:31 AM.
#27
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Most stock M3s run the quarter mile at the limiter in 3rd in the 99 mph range, but I know whatever I say it doesn't matter b/c it couldn't have possibly happened.
#28
1935 lbs. FTW!
I've gotten into 4th in the RX-8 at MW running a BMW event that had a straight running diagonally across the lot. If I have the numbers right that would be over 100 mph @ 9000 rpms in 3rd.
#31
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I was assuming a stock limiter, but that graph is based on a tire being completely round, you actually lose about 1/2" radius for the tire treadface compressing against the ground, so a GPS etc. will show an actual speed less than those numbers on the graph
Cosmos, if you were on 245 V710s the 3-4 gear change is under 90 mph for an RX-8
Cosmos, if you were on 245 V710s the 3-4 gear change is under 90 mph for an RX-8
#32
1935 lbs. FTW!
I was assuming a stock limiter, but that graph is based on a tire being completely round, you actually lose about 1/2" radius for the tire treadface compressing against the ground, so a GPS etc. will show an actual speed less than those numbers on the graph
Cosmos, if you were on 245 V710s the 3-4 gear change is under 90 mph for an RX-8
Cosmos, if you were on 245 V710s the 3-4 gear change is under 90 mph for an RX-8
#34
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The point is, we have fast autocrosses out at Mineral Wells, and I'm not the only person driving out there. There are Z06 corvettes, Jim in his BSP Evo, etc. don't tell me they're not breaking triple digits out there all the time.
Yeah, for hijacking a thread for a pointless argument.
#36
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i've done plenty of both autox and track days/hpde's
for me, it came down to what's more meaningful to me, the thrill/pressure of competition, or being able to focus internally on myself and becoming a better all around driver, while still having fun.
i decided on the latter and figured getting more seat time per dollar to improve myself is more important than getting a little trophy and bragging rights at the end of an autox season.
for me, it came down to what's more meaningful to me, the thrill/pressure of competition, or being able to focus internally on myself and becoming a better all around driver, while still having fun.
i decided on the latter and figured getting more seat time per dollar to improve myself is more important than getting a little trophy and bragging rights at the end of an autox season.
and so what i get from reading everything... majority of you rather drag your 8 then autoX it???
#37
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I prefer HDPE over Autox due to the return on Investment.
6 minutes of track time over 8 hours and working 2 1/2 or more hours is not my thing.
Plus I like planning. You have time to think and plan ahead on a known course.
Compete, there are several ways to compete in HDPE. The best copetition is yourself. Compete for consistency is one way.
And it sure beats the hell out of getting a tickect fotr 80 in a 65 zone and paying 325 to 375 per ticket.
Much cheaper, safer and fun on the track.
So, go fast on street and get tickets or accidents or go to the track for less money.
6 minutes of track time over 8 hours and working 2 1/2 or more hours is not my thing.
Plus I like planning. You have time to think and plan ahead on a known course.
Compete, there are several ways to compete in HDPE. The best copetition is yourself. Compete for consistency is one way.
And it sure beats the hell out of getting a tickect fotr 80 in a 65 zone and paying 325 to 375 per ticket.
Much cheaper, safer and fun on the track.
So, go fast on street and get tickets or accidents or go to the track for less money.
i was playing around in my boyfriends 8 this past weekend, having fun doing some redline shifts... i can see why soo many people rather drag it then autoX it.
it still means like to me in autoX the 8's are greatly underestimated and what not. because i'll admit when i first drove on (autoXing) i felt sorta disppointed afterwards. i wanted more yeah know? and trust me i did a no holds bar when i autoXed it.
then the first time i drove my boyfriends 8 the roads where sorta shitty so i didn't get to have as much fun as i'd like. but after this weekend... oh boy. my opinion on the 8 has completely changed!
i love the redline shifts and how much power i get outta it when i shift like that. i like it soo much it made me melt and i've asked my boyfriend if over the summer i could drag it every once in awhile. haha. **not saying i don't love my mitsu but a lil change is always good.
#39
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what are HPDE's / TT's and Traqmate????
#40
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I'll weigh in on what I think the thread started out to be.
I have 11 years of AutoX experience and about 8 years of experience doing track days. I have about 1 year experience as an HPDE instructor. The events all have their pros and cons.
AutoX
Pros:Great way to learn the cars limits. No special equipment required. Inexpensive. Great camaraderie. Events are plentiful and open to almost any licensed driver.
Cons: To be truly competitive, you have to devote a lot of time and development (like Team RX-8 does). Very poor return on time investment - I have 4 hours travel time and 2 hours of prep time to do four one minute runs.
Track Days/HPDE
Pros: You get a better taste of what it takes to do wheel to wheel racing. Much better return on time invested - I still have 4 hours of travel time to the track, but get 2 hours of track time in return. Great camaraderie (with the right organizations). Graet way to learn smoothness at high speed.
Cons: Requires a bigger investment to get on track. Although not likely, there is a chance that you could make a mistake big enough to cause some body damage. It's addictive!
I like both activities, but for different reasons ... and I still do both.
I have 11 years of AutoX experience and about 8 years of experience doing track days. I have about 1 year experience as an HPDE instructor. The events all have their pros and cons.
AutoX
Pros:Great way to learn the cars limits. No special equipment required. Inexpensive. Great camaraderie. Events are plentiful and open to almost any licensed driver.
Cons: To be truly competitive, you have to devote a lot of time and development (like Team RX-8 does). Very poor return on time investment - I have 4 hours travel time and 2 hours of prep time to do four one minute runs.
Track Days/HPDE
Pros: You get a better taste of what it takes to do wheel to wheel racing. Much better return on time invested - I still have 4 hours of travel time to the track, but get 2 hours of track time in return. Great camaraderie (with the right organizations). Graet way to learn smoothness at high speed.
Cons: Requires a bigger investment to get on track. Although not likely, there is a chance that you could make a mistake big enough to cause some body damage. It's addictive!
I like both activities, but for different reasons ... and I still do both.
#41
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Hi Lily, I guess no one cares to answer you question, so let me do that for ya lol
HPDE = High Performance Driving Events. They are basically 'driving schools', where people take their street cars onto a road racing cirucuit track (NOT a dragstrip), and do full speed laps around the track. They are considered educational and not competition events because there's no official timing, therefore no winner/losers at the end of the day, just a bunch of guys and their cars trying to go as fast as they can around the track.
TT = time trial, this is basically the competitive version of HPDE, where there IS an official timer and winners are awarded at the end of the day.
I think you are confused about drag racetrack vs. road circuit track. Everyone that posts in this thread does road circuit lapping/time trials, and any RX-8 owner worth their salt knows their car is NOT built for the drag strip...
HPDE = High Performance Driving Events. They are basically 'driving schools', where people take their street cars onto a road racing cirucuit track (NOT a dragstrip), and do full speed laps around the track. They are considered educational and not competition events because there's no official timing, therefore no winner/losers at the end of the day, just a bunch of guys and their cars trying to go as fast as they can around the track.
TT = time trial, this is basically the competitive version of HPDE, where there IS an official timer and winners are awarded at the end of the day.
I think you are confused about drag racetrack vs. road circuit track. Everyone that posts in this thread does road circuit lapping/time trials, and any RX-8 owner worth their salt knows their car is NOT built for the drag strip...
#43
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I just read this and thought it was funny that you never noticed torque or horsepower with your OZ rally, the reason for that is because its a Mitsubishi
#44
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#45
Lily,
Relative to the OZ Lancer, you may feel like the RX8 is a powerful car. But, the RX8 is not a fast car, nor is it torquey, nor is it a good car for the dragstrip. It is rather, mediocre if not lackluster for those purposes.
It is, however, a purpose built car for the road course or for cone dodging. It is a momentum car for these- meaning, there ain't much power, so shed as little speed as possible while flowing through the course.
If you're ever exposed to driving an 11 second (1/4 mile) daily driver, your perspective for speed will change completely. If you're ever going WOT down the back straight at Sebring and you're pointing by a conga line of powerful cars, you then realize that you're indeed driving a slow car relative to everything else. When that well driven Spec Miata or regularly driven 350Z becomes your equal in laptimes, then your perspective towards speed focuses on what the car is capable of given your driving ability.
Relative to the OZ Lancer, you may feel like the RX8 is a powerful car. But, the RX8 is not a fast car, nor is it torquey, nor is it a good car for the dragstrip. It is rather, mediocre if not lackluster for those purposes.
It is, however, a purpose built car for the road course or for cone dodging. It is a momentum car for these- meaning, there ain't much power, so shed as little speed as possible while flowing through the course.
If you're ever exposed to driving an 11 second (1/4 mile) daily driver, your perspective for speed will change completely. If you're ever going WOT down the back straight at Sebring and you're pointing by a conga line of powerful cars, you then realize that you're indeed driving a slow car relative to everything else. When that well driven Spec Miata or regularly driven 350Z becomes your equal in laptimes, then your perspective towards speed focuses on what the car is capable of given your driving ability.
#46
Don't know why I'm participating in this but...
I used to do track days. Yes, there was lots of seat time, but it was boring seat time. Lapping the same course over and over with no competition aspect is dull to me. I need the competition. The only way I would get back into it would be to practice for getting a license.
Time Trials sound fun - but I'm not going to do it until I have a car that I can honestly say to myself I can write off at any time... and at that point, I'd much rather be W2W racing in a Spec Miata or Spec E30 or something. So I can't see myself ever doing time trials.
I love the purity and intensity of autocross. I autocross to become a better autocrosser. I want to become nationally competitive someday, and the only way is to practice.
I used to do track days. Yes, there was lots of seat time, but it was boring seat time. Lapping the same course over and over with no competition aspect is dull to me. I need the competition. The only way I would get back into it would be to practice for getting a license.
Time Trials sound fun - but I'm not going to do it until I have a car that I can honestly say to myself I can write off at any time... and at that point, I'd much rather be W2W racing in a Spec Miata or Spec E30 or something. So I can't see myself ever doing time trials.
I love the purity and intensity of autocross. I autocross to become a better autocrosser. I want to become nationally competitive someday, and the only way is to practice.
#47
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Don't know why I'm participating in this but...
I used to do track days. Yes, there was lots of seat time, but it was boring seat time. Lapping the same course over and over with no competition aspect is dull to me. I need the competition. The only way I would get back into it would be to practice for getting a license.
Time Trials sound fun - but I'm not going to do it until I have a car that I can honestly say to myself I can write off at any time... and at that point, I'd much rather be W2W racing in a Spec Miata or Spec E30 or something. So I can't see myself ever doing time trials.
I love the purity and intensity of autocross. I autocross to become a better autocrosser. I want to become nationally competitive someday, and the only way is to practice.
I used to do track days. Yes, there was lots of seat time, but it was boring seat time. Lapping the same course over and over with no competition aspect is dull to me. I need the competition. The only way I would get back into it would be to practice for getting a license.
Time Trials sound fun - but I'm not going to do it until I have a car that I can honestly say to myself I can write off at any time... and at that point, I'd much rather be W2W racing in a Spec Miata or Spec E30 or something. So I can't see myself ever doing time trials.
I love the purity and intensity of autocross. I autocross to become a better autocrosser. I want to become nationally competitive someday, and the only way is to practice.
As for autocross, I'd rather have more seat time so lapping days make much more sense for me.
#48
Momentum Keeps Me Going
When you're at or near the limit of adhesion, keeping the car stable and gathering momentum at the same time is anything but boring, even lap after lap IMHO. Oh well to each his or her own.
Last edited by Spin9k; 01-31-2008 at 06:52 AM. Reason: paved not payed lol although you do pay too!
#49
#50
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Hi Lily, I guess no one cares to answer you question, so let me do that for ya lol
HPDE = High Performance Driving Events. They are basically 'driving schools', where people take their street cars onto a road racing cirucuit track (NOT a dragstrip), and do full speed laps around the track. They are considered educational and not competition events because there's no official timing, therefore no winner/losers at the end of the day, just a bunch of guys and their cars trying to go as fast as they can around the track.
TT = time trial, this is basically the competitive version of HPDE, where there IS an official timer and winners are awarded at the end of the day.
I think you are confused about drag racetrack vs. road circuit track. Everyone that posts in this thread does road circuit lapping/time trials, and any RX-8 owner worth their salt knows their car is NOT built for the drag strip...
HPDE = High Performance Driving Events. They are basically 'driving schools', where people take their street cars onto a road racing cirucuit track (NOT a dragstrip), and do full speed laps around the track. They are considered educational and not competition events because there's no official timing, therefore no winner/losers at the end of the day, just a bunch of guys and their cars trying to go as fast as they can around the track.
TT = time trial, this is basically the competitive version of HPDE, where there IS an official timer and winners are awarded at the end of the day.
I think you are confused about drag racetrack vs. road circuit track. Everyone that posts in this thread does road circuit lapping/time trials, and any RX-8 owner worth their salt knows their car is NOT built for the drag strip...
I figure TT was time attack, but hell never hurts to ask still.
never heard of traqmate either really. i might have just not refered to by that name.
i appreciate you explaining what those meant. least someone cares.
oh and i've seen an 8 drag before, it was horrible but not the best so i see where your coming from. i just guess for my area there isn't alot of events like most you guys attend and take part in with your 8's