docgatorx8er

iTrader: (10)

When is it more appropriate to trail brake - vs - straight line braking and accelerating through a turn? Is there ever a time to end the braking before the turn is initiated and using maintenance throttle through the initial part part of the turn (pre-apex). Or is it always faster to trail brake? Does it matter whether you are on a race track vs an autocross course, or does it apply to both?

Hoss

I have always held the theory that braking should be done before entering the corner...

Slow down as late as possible to shift the weight forward over the front wheels, then once you were in the corner gently engage the throttle.

Slow in, fast out. That will help you carry the momentum, and getting on the throttle sooner gives you the edge as far as re-gaining the momentum. If you are on the brakes coming out of the corner, while someone behind you is already in the throttle, you will be playing catch up.

StrokerAce

Unless you're experienced and good (not just I've run 100 aotocrosses and still gettng my *** handed to me) brake in a straight line. Trail braking is a advanced technique that can get you a few tenths. It can also royally screw you up if you don't do it right or have a car that doesn't like trail braking. It's related to the friction circle theory.

docgatorx8er

iTrader: (10)

Trail braking carries the brakes into the apex, not out of the turn. It allows you to brake later, and a little lighter for longer, thereby upsetting the car less. Easing up on the brake as you approach the apex.

So what you are suggesting is there is never a place to trail brake, which is clearly inaccurate.

Heal/Toe is also an advanced technique. Does that mean you shouldn't heal/toe? The question is to the application, not validity of the technique. If you know when to apply it, it is useful. I have found it to be necessary when getting passed in a turn on a track. I'm just not sure when to apply it in an autocross situation.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

exactly--whether or not to trailbrake or not--just depends on the track and situation---practice both. On a road course there are no absoulute rules (those of you that are experienced know what I mean)
olddragger

BRODA

iTrader: (7)

Every course is different, but trail-braking is often a good technique for a decreasing radius turn. It can also be helpful on high (autocross) speed offsets, but be careful not to over-use the technique. It most corners, it will slow you down.

alan23

When is it more appropriate to trail brake - vs - straight line braking and accelerating through a turn? Is there ever a time to end the braking before the turn is initiated and using maintenance throttle through the initial part part of the turn (pre-apex). Or is it always faster to trail brake? Does it matter whether you are on a race track vs an autocross course, or does it apply to both?

My own personal take and my 2 cents worth.....
Like what the guys said, the application is not universally applied to all corners...
I personally only use trail brake for slower corners (in a bid to help with the car's rotation). Most of this application is 2nd gear corners. However if the corner is follow by a long straight, I rather go in slower and accelerate as early as possible rather than trail brake and try to balance the car.
I am only an amateur so I am sure there would be guys very comfortable with trailing and ensuring the car take a set as early as possible in the corner.

Hope it helps
Cheers

tmak26b

It's hard to say with autox since everything happens so fast. If anything, you should try and test it at the tack instead. Too many variables in autox

Striker-7

iTrader: (3)

I tend to 'trail-brake' entering turns after high-speed straights to keep the nose weighted until the turn-in is established, then maintenance throttle / accelerate when the car is stable. Your mileage may vary. I don't like sudden transitions, and my 04's stock 55k miles suspension seems to work better with this treatment.

Personal irritant # 172745A: The technique is "Heel/Toe", not "Heal-toe", which sounds like an incantation to bring relief after dropping a jack on your foot.

IlikeEsses

Doc-
My opinion for what it's worth . . . there are no absolutes. You have to do what your car likes, you are comfortable with, etc. But there are times it works well, and will get you something.

1) Decreasing radius turns. You almost have to. Exit speed is low anyway, so you need to pick up time on entry rather than exit.

2) If you are passing coming into a turn hot, almost necessary....sound familiar? But if you are not positioned well, you will be vulnerable to be passed on exit.

3) Anywhere that your exit speed will not be higher as a result of getting on throttle early (more likely, you can't get on the throttle early due to the geometry of the turn).

Just my 2 cents.

Also, don't confuse this with left foot braking. This may be something worth learning since we all drive RX8's with low torque. If you are braking with the left and stay in the throttle with the right, (#1 at Mid-Ohio), you can scrub some speed off without sacraficing the time it takes to spin the engine back up.

Hope this makes sense.

philipchan

trail braking is always faster
because of the weight transfer and max grip of your front tires !~
Trail braking + counter steering FTW

A video of a friend of mine, won the 1st of Buttonwillow red line time attack
[EMBED]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1ejcySX0JTc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1ejcySX0JTc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/EMBED]
Also is the 1st of Miata spec