Four students killed in N.C. car [RX-8] accident
03-06-2006, 06:16 PM
#52
"I certanly feel for those associated with the deceased - especially those directly related to them - but I would imagine that those kind of parents will be looking for laws and ammendments to protect or compensate them rather than accept the inevitable consequence that befell them because of their inadequacy.The dead kids only suffered briefly for their mistake - their parents will suffer the rest of their lives. Rightly so for one reason or another depending on your personal take on "sympathy"."
Now you are calling these parents inadequete when you already admit to the lack of courage and committment to bring a child into this world yourself. Using lodgic based on your observations and opinions of our society? Jesus.
The parents "rightously suffer" "they are looking for laws etc to protect or compensate them" What I think is that they just want their children back.
I need to back up here. I am sure you are more complex of a person than what can be formulated from reading your posts on this forum. But some of these words you have posted indictes a very cold hearted person. I hope that is not true. If you truely mean what you have just posted here (and I hope I have somehow taken you out of contex), I would not want you around my children.
You say you love the children of others as if they are your own. Im sorry dude--thats impossible. And their is no way anyone can explain that to you.
You dont know kids well. Kids are not taught that they are indestructable by their parents--less not the many that I know. The parents I know fear everyday something bad may happen and do everything they know to help, guide and teach their children. Are the parents of the children that you love as your own also inadequete? Are is just everyone is inadequete? Now that I will agree with. But--wait--- isnt inadequecy only defined by someone that is adequete? Now who would that be?
I have said enough here.
olddragger
Now you are calling these parents inadequete when you already admit to the lack of courage and committment to bring a child into this world yourself. Using lodgic based on your observations and opinions of our society? Jesus.
The parents "rightously suffer" "they are looking for laws etc to protect or compensate them" What I think is that they just want their children back.
I need to back up here. I am sure you are more complex of a person than what can be formulated from reading your posts on this forum. But some of these words you have posted indictes a very cold hearted person. I hope that is not true. If you truely mean what you have just posted here (and I hope I have somehow taken you out of contex), I would not want you around my children.
You say you love the children of others as if they are your own. Im sorry dude--thats impossible. And their is no way anyone can explain that to you.
You dont know kids well. Kids are not taught that they are indestructable by their parents--less not the many that I know. The parents I know fear everyday something bad may happen and do everything they know to help, guide and teach their children. Are the parents of the children that you love as your own also inadequete? Are is just everyone is inadequete? Now that I will agree with. But--wait--- isnt inadequecy only defined by someone that is adequete? Now who would that be?
I have said enough here.
olddragger
03-06-2006, 07:53 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by tekk's 8
Let's not forget everyone that four kids died. KIDS!!! Sure the driver may have made a mistake in judgement, but let's not disrespect them or thier families by namecalling or insulting them. Just show your respect for a fellow RX-8 owner.
That is a little funny. Three of them were 18. If they had harmed somebody else with their stupidity and lived to tell about it everyone on here would be screaming about them being adults and whatnot. Their brains appear to be about 10 but the age on three on them says they are legally adults. I assure you if they had killed others in my state (even the driver killing the passengers and him living) he would have been tried as an adult at a much younger age based on him partaking of an adult activity and he should be responsible. I can't consider them kids. The only thing that springs to mind are morons!!!
03-06-2006, 07:53 PM
#54
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Wow, this really made me think. I guess I'll be with the few others and actually admit that I am not the safest driver in the world, and might take a few too many chances at times. This will definately slow me down. As dumb as this kid may have been, no one here knows if he was actually a bad kid or not. How any of you can be the least bit glad that this happened is beyond me. The only good I see that can come out of it is the fact that it will teach me, and hopefully a lot more people a lesson about agressive driving.
03-06-2006, 07:57 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by BunnyGirl
The only thing that springs to mind are morons!!!
03-06-2006, 07:58 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Aratinga
updated story with names of deceased driver and passengers:
http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/415158.html
The car was traveling at an estimated 110-115 MPH on a curving elevated transition road when it went out of control.
Sorry, but doing that wasn't a "mistake". A mistake is something you didn't mean to do -- like stepping on someone's foot. We all know that the driver of this car was probably showing off to his buddies what his RX-8 could do. He was deliberately and consciously engaging in behavior that he knew at the time was illegal and highly risky, and yet he chose to do so anyway -- and as a result killed himself and all his friends.
There is no sympathy here for him. His passengers were helpless (although they probably didn't discourage him), so I do feel sympathy for them and their loved ones. The parents of the driver, IMHO, are complete idiots and ought to be prosecuted for criminal negligence if they bought him that car and allowed him to drive it.
http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/415158.html
The car was traveling at an estimated 110-115 MPH on a curving elevated transition road when it went out of control.
Sorry, but doing that wasn't a "mistake". A mistake is something you didn't mean to do -- like stepping on someone's foot. We all know that the driver of this car was probably showing off to his buddies what his RX-8 could do. He was deliberately and consciously engaging in behavior that he knew at the time was illegal and highly risky, and yet he chose to do so anyway -- and as a result killed himself and all his friends.
There is no sympathy here for him. His passengers were helpless (although they probably didn't discourage him), so I do feel sympathy for them and their loved ones. The parents of the driver, IMHO, are complete idiots and ought to be prosecuted for criminal negligence if they bought him that car and allowed him to drive it.
EXACTLY!! Don't worry. I'm sure they will be sued for wrongful death at least in civil court and they deserve to suffer those consequences. They acted irresponsibly in allowing him access to the car and obviously they didn't do a good enough job raising him that he would know to behave more responsibly. And I'm sure we will hear all the typical "He was such a good boy" BS that usually follows.
03-06-2006, 08:24 PM
#57
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I grew up in a church. This is where I get my views from. I am not unsympathetic to the family of the deceased. However, I was taught very young that every action has a consequence. Some consequences are good. Some are very bad. If I don't think of the potential consequences before I do something, it is my fault for being irresponsible. If I think of the consequences and still participate I am a moron. It is far beyond me how someone could not think of a potential consequence of speeding at such a high speed and especially not think of what could happen to his passengers even if he had no concern for himself in his actions. I highly doubt this was the ONLY time he ever was speeding or especially going around that speed before. He behaved badly and took others with him. Shame on him. It is that simple. He did not show love and compassion for his friends at all in his actions. I find it hard to have any sympathy for him at all. He obviously wasn't thinking of his family either when he did this.
It all comes back to the principle of "you reap what you sow." He sowed reckless and irresponsible behavior. He reaped death.
It seems like so many on here are just saying that something bad happened. How dare he be judged now because he's dead. This is the whole point!!! We are all held accountable for our actions and face some form of judgement based on those actions, whether positive or negative. He paid the ultimate price and took his friends with him.
It all comes back to the principle of "you reap what you sow." He sowed reckless and irresponsible behavior. He reaped death.
It seems like so many on here are just saying that something bad happened. How dare he be judged now because he's dead. This is the whole point!!! We are all held accountable for our actions and face some form of judgement based on those actions, whether positive or negative. He paid the ultimate price and took his friends with him.
03-06-2006, 08:47 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by BunnyGirl
EXACTLY!! Don't worry. I'm sure they will be sued for wrongful death at least in civil court and they deserve to suffer those consequences. They acted irresponsibly in allowing him access to the car and obviously they didn't do a good enough job raising him that he would know to behave more responsibly. And I'm sure we will hear all the typical "He was such a good boy" BS that usually follows.
I'm done!
03-06-2006, 09:40 PM
#59
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I really dont see how calling the driver a moron or idiot is helpful at all. To hear all you righteous and judgemental people point fingers and cast blame is sad indeed.
I wonder what tune you'd whistle if confronted by any of the grieving parents or friends. I doubt if any of you would have the guts to tell them that they raised their children wrong or that those in the car were idiots. If you cant show respect for fellow posters at least show some respect for the dead and grieving.
I guess empathy comes with age. Many of you need to grow up and grow a heart.
I wonder what tune you'd whistle if confronted by any of the grieving parents or friends. I doubt if any of you would have the guts to tell them that they raised their children wrong or that those in the car were idiots. If you cant show respect for fellow posters at least show some respect for the dead and grieving.
I guess empathy comes with age. Many of you need to grow up and grow a heart.
03-06-2006, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by valpac
I'm so glad that erroneous behavior has been erradicated in my lifetime. It appears many here cannot relate to erring whether it be conscious or otherwise. I feel so much safer knowing none of you posters ever break the law or speed in your RX-8's.
I am also overwhelmed by the numbers of infallible humans that post on this forum. This thread is rife with so many righteous judgements that I am in awe of you all. I should just sit back, listen and learn from all you pontificators. God bless you all and God bless those that perished in that horrible accident.
I am also overwhelmed by the numbers of infallible humans that post on this forum. This thread is rife with so many righteous judgements that I am in awe of you all. I should just sit back, listen and learn from all you pontificators. God bless you all and God bless those that perished in that horrible accident.
Arguments that 'everyone has done it, so it's ok' don't cut it, simply because not everyone has, whether you believe it or not. I haven't, and neither have 90% of my friends. Secondly, even if everyone does it, that doesn't make it right either. Some of you may have done things like that and survived. That gives you the capacity to empathise better..that's all. Does that make it ok for others to follow in your footsteps?
If parents try to make excuses for the decisions and consequences of other kids to their own, that's just asking for their own kids to go out and make 'mistakes' of such magnitude of their own. This is not about comparing who does a better job at parenting.. it's about trying all we can to let our kids know about behaviour and consequences. If they go out and do it anyway, there's nothing more we could have done. BUT, making excuses for such behaviour isn't even 'trying'. We owe it to your kids to guide them.
So anyone who points out irresponsible behaviour is 'pontificating'? Does anyone really have to point out to you that the extent of speeding makes a difference? I know i'm not 'infallible'... that's why i don't drive that fast when i'm about to exit the freeway!
I personally do not take any car to 115mph on an off ramp, precisely because that's reckless. I'm sure (hoping) most of you don't, either.
03-06-2006, 10:54 PM
#63
Originally Posted by valpac
I really dont see how calling the driver a moron or idiot is helpful at all. To hear all you righteous and judgemental people point fingers and cast blame is sad indeed.
Originally Posted by valpac
I guess empathy comes with age. Many of you need to grow up and grow a heart.
Originally Posted by valpac
Just another poster to add to my ignore list.
03-06-2006, 11:05 PM
#64
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Originally Posted by BunnyGirl
Another tidbit of information that has been updated with this story is that the driver already had three car accidents on his record before this happened.
03-07-2006, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by valpac
Just another poster to add to my ignore list.
sheesh, who's on a high horse now?
03-07-2006, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by BunnyGirl
Another tidbit of information that has been updated with this story is that the driver already had three car accidents on his record before this happened.
03-07-2006, 06:04 AM
#67
He's as bad as Can
Originally Posted by Herblenny
Where did you get that info??
"The teenage driver of a Mazda RX-8 that crashed this weekend, killing him and three other boys, was involved in at least two accidents in Raleigh before Saturday's fiery wreck, according to police."
03-07-2006, 08:07 AM
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Wood was at fault in both accidents, according to the police reports. His mother, Jaynee Wood, said Monday night that her son had become a good driver.
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03-07-2006, 08:50 AM
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Good thread. Lots to learn... but let's be clear that the RX-8 isn't at fault, to keep it relevant.
Interestingly, I've seen lots of publicity of RX-8s going off the road and exploding:
1. The one out east where it cut the top off another car killing all innocents then caught fire against an overpass. (killing 8 occupants i believe)
2. The one in Hawaii where the stolen car flew off the road, hit a tree and exploded killing the driver.
3. This one.
There has probably been more. Unfortunate that the 8, one of the easiest cars to control in my experience is at risk of being called unsafe. It does seem to have a pattern of catching fire in extreme cases, does anybody else know the frequency of car fires in similar accidents? I'm curious.
Interestingly, I've seen lots of publicity of RX-8s going off the road and exploding:
1. The one out east where it cut the top off another car killing all innocents then caught fire against an overpass. (killing 8 occupants i believe)
2. The one in Hawaii where the stolen car flew off the road, hit a tree and exploded killing the driver.
3. This one.
There has probably been more. Unfortunate that the 8, one of the easiest cars to control in my experience is at risk of being called unsafe. It does seem to have a pattern of catching fire in extreme cases, does anybody else know the frequency of car fires in similar accidents? I'm curious.
03-07-2006, 09:13 AM
#70
He's as bad as Can
Originally Posted by ranger4277
is at risk of being called unsafe. It does seem to have a pattern of catching fire in extreme cases, does anybody else know the frequency of car fires in similar accidents? I'm curious.
03-07-2006, 09:27 AM
#72
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I’m going to attempt to add to this thread again.
There seams to be two sides to this issue. One side is really down on the driver and somewhat on the passengers and the other side is asking for some understanding on concern for 4 kids (yes they are kids) that died in this terrible crash.
Both sides have valid points and the further the discussion goes, the more one sided each will get in defense of their opinion.
The kids are probably being buried today and that is very harsh for me. I hurt for the families and friends first. Putting blame on people and saying things that can scar a person all the way to be core of their existence to me is just not right.
The lawyers, judges, insurance companies and enforcement officers will do their job in due order. Parent’s lives may be ruined and little puppy dogs will not see their friends come home. I know these kids did a very bad thing and they were not obeying the laws of our highways and that was, no matter how you look at it, a fatal mistake.
I think for me to get past something like this, I must not judge the kids and parents without first grieving for them. It’s just a natural thing that I do and I guess I just can’t understand an attitude of, well, they got what they deserved and the parents should suffer the consequences.
How do you teach kids lessons, how do you make them understand laws and the right thing to do? As a parent, you should try your best to set an example, stay in touch with your kids and their friends, never give in to what you know is right for them, never stop listening or teaching to them. Who knows what these parents were like and how devoted they were to their kids but one thing is for sure, they are hurting to their sole right now.
I hope that if nothing else comes of the discussion on this board, that some of you that are so quick to judge will first have some compassion for the kids, their families, friends, and for yourself as you develop your futures and raise your own kids. Maybe you will remember this thread and how important it just could be to you.
Sincerely and from the heart.
Don
There seams to be two sides to this issue. One side is really down on the driver and somewhat on the passengers and the other side is asking for some understanding on concern for 4 kids (yes they are kids) that died in this terrible crash.
Both sides have valid points and the further the discussion goes, the more one sided each will get in defense of their opinion.
The kids are probably being buried today and that is very harsh for me. I hurt for the families and friends first. Putting blame on people and saying things that can scar a person all the way to be core of their existence to me is just not right.
The lawyers, judges, insurance companies and enforcement officers will do their job in due order. Parent’s lives may be ruined and little puppy dogs will not see their friends come home. I know these kids did a very bad thing and they were not obeying the laws of our highways and that was, no matter how you look at it, a fatal mistake.
I think for me to get past something like this, I must not judge the kids and parents without first grieving for them. It’s just a natural thing that I do and I guess I just can’t understand an attitude of, well, they got what they deserved and the parents should suffer the consequences.
How do you teach kids lessons, how do you make them understand laws and the right thing to do? As a parent, you should try your best to set an example, stay in touch with your kids and their friends, never give in to what you know is right for them, never stop listening or teaching to them. Who knows what these parents were like and how devoted they were to their kids but one thing is for sure, they are hurting to their sole right now.
I hope that if nothing else comes of the discussion on this board, that some of you that are so quick to judge will first have some compassion for the kids, their families, friends, and for yourself as you develop your futures and raise your own kids. Maybe you will remember this thread and how important it just could be to you.
Sincerely and from the heart.
Don
03-07-2006, 09:41 AM
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I like others feel bad for the kids family's, but the driver gets no sympathy. I measure peopel by my life. If *I* was smart enough to not get myself killed doing something as stupid as this kid did, then anybody can do it.
Now the other kids, I feel really bad for their families. They just might have been yelling at him to slow down. But theya re the only epople here who I would feel any sympathy for.
I do not have kids, nor plan on it, but I do take care of my 2 nephews on my wife's side and am teaching the 15 year old how to drive now. The 16 year old one has his permit and so far has been smart. I made it very clear that if he ever got cought doing something stupid like this, before he paid for his own car, his *** was riding the bus to school. If that drivers parent had followed the same rules, he would NOT have been driving that day and killed his friends. But too many parents dont want to actually do the work of a parent these days and we end up with a lot of bad and/or stupid kids for it.
Now the other kids, I feel really bad for their families. They just might have been yelling at him to slow down. But theya re the only epople here who I would feel any sympathy for.
I do not have kids, nor plan on it, but I do take care of my 2 nephews on my wife's side and am teaching the 15 year old how to drive now. The 16 year old one has his permit and so far has been smart. I made it very clear that if he ever got cought doing something stupid like this, before he paid for his own car, his *** was riding the bus to school. If that drivers parent had followed the same rules, he would NOT have been driving that day and killed his friends. But too many parents dont want to actually do the work of a parent these days and we end up with a lot of bad and/or stupid kids for it.
03-07-2006, 09:59 AM
#74
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This is all quite tragic and a lot of good points were made. My only comment is to those who think that the parents are at fault for buying their kid (or allowing their kid to buy) an RX-8. RX-8, Ford Focus, or Volvo...it doesnt matter. The driver was doing over 100mph on an exit ramp and was pushing the laws of physics to the limit. If this happened and he was driving an uber safe Volvo, would we say, " damn those parents for buying him a volvo"? No. Did him having an RX-8 give him a false sense of security that he could do 100+mph, *maybe*.
I am 24 w/ a 12 year old brother and that has really brought into perspective to me how I was as a kid and what its like for parents nowadays. Throughout time, kids will always think they are invincible and that their parents "just don't understand", because they don't know better and its learning from their mistakes that makes them stronger in life. Good parenting of course plays a role, but sometimes you need to stick your hand in the flame, before you really know what its like to get burned. I made plenty of stupid decisions when I was a teenager, and when I was in college, and hell, I'll probably make plenty more before I die. When all is said and done with lawyers, insurance, and the law, someone will be blamed in this tragedy and it will be most likely the driver. But who are we to say this kid was an idiot? Did he have a lapse in judgement, yes, but was he an idiot? Who knows. Trying to correlate this accident to the drivers intelligence or his parents abilty to be good parents is stupid. He had a lapse in judgement, but unless any of us knows these people directly, I think comments about the driver and parents do no nothing more than to spark debate.
I bet there isnt one person on this forum who hasnt pushed their 8 just a little more than they should have. Whether that means taking an exit ramp a little faster or speeding just a little more than usual, we've all done it. Anyone who claims they haven't is a liar. You don't buy an 8 and drive it like a sedan 100% of the time, if you did, then you wouldn't appreciate what makes an 8 an 8. I am not saying we should all go out and drive like its an F1 car, but if you seriously think you drive your 8 like any other car, then you clearly got the wrong car. Driver education and good parenting (with severe punishments as needed) all contribute to how kids drive. As we get older and more experienced, we start to understand where the limits of the driver no longer matter as physics is physics and if we could defy it, we certainly would have made ourselves richer by now. Unfortunately, this driver drove his 8 and pushed its limits more that he ever should and has affected the lives of 3 others and their familes.
I certainly feel for these families as its always said when a parent has to bury their kids.
I am 24 w/ a 12 year old brother and that has really brought into perspective to me how I was as a kid and what its like for parents nowadays. Throughout time, kids will always think they are invincible and that their parents "just don't understand", because they don't know better and its learning from their mistakes that makes them stronger in life. Good parenting of course plays a role, but sometimes you need to stick your hand in the flame, before you really know what its like to get burned. I made plenty of stupid decisions when I was a teenager, and when I was in college, and hell, I'll probably make plenty more before I die. When all is said and done with lawyers, insurance, and the law, someone will be blamed in this tragedy and it will be most likely the driver. But who are we to say this kid was an idiot? Did he have a lapse in judgement, yes, but was he an idiot? Who knows. Trying to correlate this accident to the drivers intelligence or his parents abilty to be good parents is stupid. He had a lapse in judgement, but unless any of us knows these people directly, I think comments about the driver and parents do no nothing more than to spark debate.
I bet there isnt one person on this forum who hasnt pushed their 8 just a little more than they should have. Whether that means taking an exit ramp a little faster or speeding just a little more than usual, we've all done it. Anyone who claims they haven't is a liar. You don't buy an 8 and drive it like a sedan 100% of the time, if you did, then you wouldn't appreciate what makes an 8 an 8. I am not saying we should all go out and drive like its an F1 car, but if you seriously think you drive your 8 like any other car, then you clearly got the wrong car. Driver education and good parenting (with severe punishments as needed) all contribute to how kids drive. As we get older and more experienced, we start to understand where the limits of the driver no longer matter as physics is physics and if we could defy it, we certainly would have made ourselves richer by now. Unfortunately, this driver drove his 8 and pushed its limits more that he ever should and has affected the lives of 3 others and their familes.
I certainly feel for these families as its always said when a parent has to bury their kids.
Last edited by djseto; 03-07-2006 at 10:10 AM.
03-07-2006, 10:10 AM
#75
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Well said Genom. 100% agree with your reply. I'm just glad the stupid driver didn't take out any other innocent bystanders (geez, what would of happened if he plowed through a bus full of kids???)...if I were the passenger's parent, I would raise hell on why the @#$ was the driver going that fast on an exit, AND had previous car accidents (due to speed?) before that.
Also, like Genom pointed out, if I were the driver's parent, I would of either take his car away for x days/weeks/months, or sell it all together..because I doubt he had the $$ to buy and pay for it himself...but, most parents now-a-days don't have the time or care what their kids do...until something tragic like this happen...suffice to say, rude awakening for all party involved..give sympathy where it is due..that driver deserves none..although I do feel that the parents of this kid will be in their own hell because they had a part of what transpired..
Also, like Genom pointed out, if I were the driver's parent, I would of either take his car away for x days/weeks/months, or sell it all together..because I doubt he had the $$ to buy and pay for it himself...but, most parents now-a-days don't have the time or care what their kids do...until something tragic like this happen...suffice to say, rude awakening for all party involved..give sympathy where it is due..that driver deserves none..although I do feel that the parents of this kid will be in their own hell because they had a part of what transpired..