GA RX-8 Club - PANOZ Track Days - Road Atl - July 15-16
07-15-2006, 06:06 PM
#51
Registered
Thread Starter
Beautiful day, great instruction and 4 sessions on Road Atlanta. 
We had a small group this time as most of you are at CMP this weekend with NASA. Steve brought out his Ferrari, Paul and Charlie drove the monster RX-Vette, Pam drove harder than she's ever driven before. She was really excited when she came in from her last session. She said she had the best two laps ever and when the BMW spun out in turn 1, I think it scared the hell out of her.
Special thanks to Charlie for his instruction on and off the track. Made a huge difference in my approach to 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 10. Thanks Charlie!
I'm exhausted. I would like to say the Panoz organization is one top notch group. Their classroom and lead follow program were excellent. I didn't think I would care for the lead follow but after spending time on the track I realized that you can do this at speeds "I" consider as fast as I needed to go. I was lucky to get in with a group of 2 vettes, 1 viper, 1 M3 and a Mustang GT. I specifically searched out a group like this to hang with just to see how I would do. I wound up staying with them for 3 sessions then moved to a different group for a little diversity for the 4th.
When I approached the group of ground pounders and asked them if they would mind if I joined them, the Viper guy looked at me with a seriously degrading look and said, "If you think you can keep up!" and he suggested that if I start holding them back that I may want to come in and get with another group. I would like to report to you, my fellow RX-8ers, that when I came in, all the guys came up to me and shook my hand.
I don't think I can express how satisfying that was. Of course they did the obvious out of 7 and walked off but when they were putting on the brakes and approaching 10A I was back on them again. Dang, we have an awesome car.
Last session I was leading our pack which included a Lotus Elise and a WRX. The Elise scared the hell out of me when we came down the hill to 10a. I was waiting later then most to put on the brakes and I don't know what he was thinking but he disappeared from my rear view mirror and I saw him approaching me on the inside just prior to turning so to protect myself I stayed right more than usual through the turn and I didn't see him until I rounded 10b. That was freaking scary. I was thinking he was going to T-Bone me in 10a. After the lead follow changes and he was in the lead, he spun out between 10a and 10b in front of me to end the last session for the day.
I drove faster, better and more confident today and can't wait for NASA in August to put my new learned techniques to work.
Have not looked to see if I turned my video camera on properly so i'll check it out later and let you know if there is anything worth looking at.
AWESOME!
We had a small group this time as most of you are at CMP this weekend with NASA. Steve brought out his Ferrari, Paul and Charlie drove the monster RX-Vette, Pam drove harder than she's ever driven before. She was really excited when she came in from her last session. She said she had the best two laps ever and when the BMW spun out in turn 1, I think it scared the hell out of her.
Special thanks to Charlie for his instruction on and off the track. Made a huge difference in my approach to 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 10. Thanks Charlie!
I'm exhausted. I would like to say the Panoz organization is one top notch group. Their classroom and lead follow program were excellent. I didn't think I would care for the lead follow but after spending time on the track I realized that you can do this at speeds "I" consider as fast as I needed to go. I was lucky to get in with a group of 2 vettes, 1 viper, 1 M3 and a Mustang GT. I specifically searched out a group like this to hang with just to see how I would do. I wound up staying with them for 3 sessions then moved to a different group for a little diversity for the 4th.
When I approached the group of ground pounders and asked them if they would mind if I joined them, the Viper guy looked at me with a seriously degrading look and said, "If you think you can keep up!" and he suggested that if I start holding them back that I may want to come in and get with another group. I would like to report to you, my fellow RX-8ers, that when I came in, all the guys came up to me and shook my hand.
I don't think I can express how satisfying that was. Of course they did the obvious out of 7 and walked off but when they were putting on the brakes and approaching 10A I was back on them again. Dang, we have an awesome car.Last session I was leading our pack which included a Lotus Elise and a WRX. The Elise scared the hell out of me when we came down the hill to 10a. I was waiting later then most to put on the brakes and I don't know what he was thinking but he disappeared from my rear view mirror and I saw him approaching me on the inside just prior to turning so to protect myself I stayed right more than usual through the turn and I didn't see him until I rounded 10b. That was freaking scary. I was thinking he was going to T-Bone me in 10a. After the lead follow changes and he was in the lead, he spun out between 10a and 10b in front of me to end the last session for the day.
I drove faster, better and more confident today and can't wait for NASA in August to put my new learned techniques to work.
Have not looked to see if I turned my video camera on properly so i'll check it out later and let you know if there is anything worth looking at.
AWESOME!
Last edited by SilverEIGHT; 07-15-2006 at 07:47 PM.
07-16-2006, 12:29 PM
#53
Registered
Thread Starter
STF
The most simple yet important sentence he said was, "Get all the busy work done before the turn". I know that sounds real simple and something everyone should know but it's funny if you pay a lot of attention to that sentence it all makes a lot more sence. I know I'v always been told to brake in a straight line and don't trail brake until you've learned more and a few other do's and dont's but for some reason the way charlie said it, it just clicked.
Now, specifically:
Entering turn 3:
Brake sooner, shift to third and hit the birm to set up for 4. I had been later turning which was not setting me up for 4 properly.
Exiting 4 and transitioning to the Esses:
In the very brief transition when the car settles, shift to 4th. I had been shifting earlier.
Entering 5:
I had a hard time with this one. I never quite got comfortable braking/downshifting and hiting the birm on the right just before making the turn up hill. Charlie tried to get me settled on that one but it's my hardest spot on the track. If anyone has a suggestion, pleas let me know because I'm still not getting it right.
Entering turn 6:
Brake earlier and turn sooner. I had been waiting to late to brake and turning later more abruptly. Charlies suggestion widened the turn and smoothed it out. Sweetness!
Entering 7:
Brake harder and sooner then turn in earlier than I had been.
Entering 10A:
Start braking earlier and turn in sooner. (that seems to be the theam of this lesson)
Seems that all of the changes when exicuted properly smoothed out the line.
I think in my last trip to RA with NASA, somewhere in the lessions I had the impresson I needed to learn to compress my braking so in the process I purchased Hawk plus pads added Stainles brake lines and put a front strut bar for brake support on to help with the braking. I go to RA with the goal of compressing and Charlie taught me to use the braking zone earlier than I felt like the car required. What happened is by the time I was ready to enter a turn, the car was settled and waiting for my input instead of making a hard transition from brakeing to turning... it all made sense now... "Get all the busy work done before the turn"
Thanks Charlie!
The most simple yet important sentence he said was, "Get all the busy work done before the turn". I know that sounds real simple and something everyone should know but it's funny if you pay a lot of attention to that sentence it all makes a lot more sence. I know I'v always been told to brake in a straight line and don't trail brake until you've learned more and a few other do's and dont's but for some reason the way charlie said it, it just clicked.
Now, specifically:
Entering turn 3:
Brake sooner, shift to third and hit the birm to set up for 4. I had been later turning which was not setting me up for 4 properly.
Exiting 4 and transitioning to the Esses:
In the very brief transition when the car settles, shift to 4th. I had been shifting earlier.
Entering 5:
I had a hard time with this one. I never quite got comfortable braking/downshifting and hiting the birm on the right just before making the turn up hill. Charlie tried to get me settled on that one but it's my hardest spot on the track. If anyone has a suggestion, pleas let me know because I'm still not getting it right.
Entering turn 6:
Brake earlier and turn sooner. I had been waiting to late to brake and turning later more abruptly. Charlies suggestion widened the turn and smoothed it out. Sweetness!
Entering 7:
Brake harder and sooner then turn in earlier than I had been.
Entering 10A:
Start braking earlier and turn in sooner. (that seems to be the theam of this lesson)
Seems that all of the changes when exicuted properly smoothed out the line.
I think in my last trip to RA with NASA, somewhere in the lessions I had the impresson I needed to learn to compress my braking so in the process I purchased Hawk plus pads added Stainles brake lines and put a front strut bar for brake support on to help with the braking. I go to RA with the goal of compressing and Charlie taught me to use the braking zone earlier than I felt like the car required. What happened is by the time I was ready to enter a turn, the car was settled and waiting for my input instead of making a hard transition from brakeing to turning... it all made sense now... "Get all the busy work done before the turn"
Thanks Charlie!
07-16-2006, 01:37 PM
#54
SIlver,
Everyone drives differant--differant styles etc. learn from them all and then develope your own to your car. Charlie sure knows what he is talking about.
To past on my little experience at RA.
1- he and I do the same on 3, full throttle to the esses approach
2- the esses he and I differ(when I was running my 18's) I stay in 3nd , turned in just a bit later and had an almost straight line through the esses. I would redline right at the point where you had to prepare for #5 anyway and since I didnt have to downshift etc there was much less busy work to be done. Its a little harder on the car but it was faster and way easier for me. I stayed in 3nd from the left handed sweeper approaching the esses til i had to shift on the straight to #6. You may want to just try that at some point. See which one you like better. Like I said though it is harder on the car,
3-- # 6 dead on full throttle all the way through.
4- # 7 dead on ---the secret here is the sooner you can get on full throttle coming out of that turn the better. with 18 ' wheels and oem tires if you have not had to shift to 4th BEFORE you get to the little hill(1st one-- right after 7) on that straight then something is wrong. Better to enter that turn to slow and to be able to get on full throttle sooner than to enter to fast and having to modulate the throttle coming out.
5--10A---i learned from another instructor here that to think of 10A and 10B together. like you said on entering 10a- but when you come out of 10 a your steering wheel should be pointed directly toward the 10B apex. It is not a gradual steer out of a to b. These are fast steering inputs not gradual. It really helped me--Hard to explain it but I will show you in august.
Glad you had a great time. Bet it was hot.
Now rest.
Olddragger
Everyone drives differant--differant styles etc. learn from them all and then develope your own to your car. Charlie sure knows what he is talking about.
To past on my little experience at RA.
1- he and I do the same on 3, full throttle to the esses approach
2- the esses he and I differ(when I was running my 18's) I stay in 3nd , turned in just a bit later and had an almost straight line through the esses. I would redline right at the point where you had to prepare for #5 anyway and since I didnt have to downshift etc there was much less busy work to be done. Its a little harder on the car but it was faster and way easier for me. I stayed in 3nd from the left handed sweeper approaching the esses til i had to shift on the straight to #6. You may want to just try that at some point. See which one you like better. Like I said though it is harder on the car,
3-- # 6 dead on full throttle all the way through.
4- # 7 dead on ---the secret here is the sooner you can get on full throttle coming out of that turn the better. with 18 ' wheels and oem tires if you have not had to shift to 4th BEFORE you get to the little hill(1st one-- right after 7) on that straight then something is wrong. Better to enter that turn to slow and to be able to get on full throttle sooner than to enter to fast and having to modulate the throttle coming out.
5--10A---i learned from another instructor here that to think of 10A and 10B together. like you said on entering 10a- but when you come out of 10 a your steering wheel should be pointed directly toward the 10B apex. It is not a gradual steer out of a to b. These are fast steering inputs not gradual. It really helped me--Hard to explain it but I will show you in august.
Glad you had a great time. Bet it was hot.
Now rest.
Olddragger
07-16-2006, 02:15 PM
#55
Registered
Thread Starter
OD, I have found that everyone drives the track differently. I've had 3 instructors and several of you guys have given me details. I think the most drastic difference is between the approach to turn 3 and the entrance of turn 5. Some stay in 4th all the way from turn 12 to the approach to turn 5 and some shift to 3rd approaching turn 3 and shift to 4th entering the esses and I think I read yours correctly... you stay in 3rd all the way from turn 3 to the top of turn 5.
Exiting turn 10a and approaching 10b is a bit different as well as you make a straight line and Charlie holds to the left a little before turning in for the apex of 10b.
I think for me to get one line down is most important. Then try different approaches after I have mastered the one. If you don't have a solid foundation to work from you have no point of reference. I do like Charlies approach as it is a very smooth ride an I did like TrackAddicts approach of leaving it in 4th all the way to turn 5. I'm going to make a decision on my first session at RA in August and stick with it for the entire event. That is unless I get an instructor that is not interested in my opinion.
I look forward to sitting in the shade and discussing at the track. Thanks for your input OD.
Exiting turn 10a and approaching 10b is a bit different as well as you make a straight line and Charlie holds to the left a little before turning in for the apex of 10b.
I think for me to get one line down is most important. Then try different approaches after I have mastered the one. If you don't have a solid foundation to work from you have no point of reference. I do like Charlies approach as it is a very smooth ride an I did like TrackAddicts approach of leaving it in 4th all the way to turn 5. I'm going to make a decision on my first session at RA in August and stick with it for the entire event. That is unless I get an instructor that is not interested in my opinion.
I look forward to sitting in the shade and discussing at the track. Thanks for your input OD.
07-16-2006, 03:49 PM
#56
exactly--everybody does it differant. Like Bruce Lee use to say--you cant learn everything from one school.
During my earier times in HPDE i was focusing on the fastest line through. After a little I started experimenting with differant lines imagining differant scenarios, ie passing on the inside, passing on the outside, missing a slower car, what to do if I miss a shift, setting up for the pass 3 turns before the event--all kinds of stuff. you are a wise man to ask all about how they do, think about them all and then apply. It will not be long til AUgust!
Olddragger
During my earier times in HPDE i was focusing on the fastest line through. After a little I started experimenting with differant lines imagining differant scenarios, ie passing on the inside, passing on the outside, missing a slower car, what to do if I miss a shift, setting up for the pass 3 turns before the event--all kinds of stuff. you are a wise man to ask all about how they do, think about them all and then apply. It will not be long til AUgust!
Olddragger
07-17-2006, 08:33 PM
#57
Registered
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Marietta,Ga
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Outstanding fun
Wow, what a weekend! All that work really paid off with a trouble free weekend. Saturday was hotter than I can remember but adrenaline is a great air conditioner till you come off the track. It was great to see Val, Robert, Pam, and Don. I had a ball riding with Don and hope what I showed you helped. I wish that it would have been possible to take all of you out in the 7 so that you could see what a wonderful ride it is on the track.
I spent my sessions on sunday trying to determine exactly which gear would allow me to carry the best speeds and minimize downshifts. With the huge brakes and 388 lb/ft of torque, I found that I could actually stay in 5th gear for turn 1! The car would pull the hill strong and hard and stayed very settled and I saved an unneeded 5-4 downshift. I found myself entering turn 2 much faster than when I downshifted to 4th had to make adjustments but it seemed to work well. Turn 3 requires a 5-4 downshift with a 4-5 upshift as the car settles in 4 and then a 5-4 downshift for turn 5. The power comes on very smoothly and the exit out of 5 is extremely quick (Denny, I know this would get your attention!!!) and I hit 5th before turn 6. I can stay in 5th through 6 and drop to 4th for 7 under braking and track out under power and hit 5th down the back straight. This is where I found out something really weird that had been overlooked in tuning. At 5500 rpm in 5th I hit rev limit????? What was happening was the PCM saw the output speed of the transmission as 160mph but due to the fact that the RX7 rear gear is 4.1:1
that was really only about 120 0r so. The F body stuff comes with a 3.4??:1 gear so it will need to be reprogrammed. I would short shift to 6th just to keep from hitting the limiter which made the entry to 10a cool because it required braking and learning how to not screw up a 6-3 downshift. The shifter is a little vague compared to the 8 so I need to continue getting to know it better. It is very American feeling (stiff and dumptruck like). I set a low rev limit for the weekend and it worked out well for us but I will need to work up to the limits of the car more each time before I will be able to consistently hammer it around.
Anyway, it was fun and strange being in higher gears than I am used to and I know that I accomplished what I set out to do this first weekend out and that was to shake down a new car safely, re aquaint myself w/ Road Atl. which was like running into my best friend that i had not seen in 6 months, and determine if any changes need to be made. Mission Accomplished! Next time will be much faster but this time was a total blast. My goal will be to get into the range I was in back in the RX3 which is going to take some brake cooling and a cooler day but it's do-able I think. I'll probably need some coaching from Brian to get to that point!!
See you all soon.
Chas
I spent my sessions on sunday trying to determine exactly which gear would allow me to carry the best speeds and minimize downshifts. With the huge brakes and 388 lb/ft of torque, I found that I could actually stay in 5th gear for turn 1! The car would pull the hill strong and hard and stayed very settled and I saved an unneeded 5-4 downshift. I found myself entering turn 2 much faster than when I downshifted to 4th had to make adjustments but it seemed to work well. Turn 3 requires a 5-4 downshift with a 4-5 upshift as the car settles in 4 and then a 5-4 downshift for turn 5. The power comes on very smoothly and the exit out of 5 is extremely quick (Denny, I know this would get your attention!!!) and I hit 5th before turn 6. I can stay in 5th through 6 and drop to 4th for 7 under braking and track out under power and hit 5th down the back straight. This is where I found out something really weird that had been overlooked in tuning. At 5500 rpm in 5th I hit rev limit????? What was happening was the PCM saw the output speed of the transmission as 160mph but due to the fact that the RX7 rear gear is 4.1:1
that was really only about 120 0r so. The F body stuff comes with a 3.4??:1 gear so it will need to be reprogrammed. I would short shift to 6th just to keep from hitting the limiter which made the entry to 10a cool because it required braking and learning how to not screw up a 6-3 downshift. The shifter is a little vague compared to the 8 so I need to continue getting to know it better. It is very American feeling (stiff and dumptruck like). I set a low rev limit for the weekend and it worked out well for us but I will need to work up to the limits of the car more each time before I will be able to consistently hammer it around.
Anyway, it was fun and strange being in higher gears than I am used to and I know that I accomplished what I set out to do this first weekend out and that was to shake down a new car safely, re aquaint myself w/ Road Atl. which was like running into my best friend that i had not seen in 6 months, and determine if any changes need to be made. Mission Accomplished! Next time will be much faster but this time was a total blast. My goal will be to get into the range I was in back in the RX3 which is going to take some brake cooling and a cooler day but it's do-able I think. I'll probably need some coaching from Brian to get to that point!!
See you all soon.
Chas
07-17-2006, 09:39 PM
#58
Great to hear from you Chas. Sounds like a good"get to know you" run. Yea I vividly remember turn 5. I think I was hollering "Dirt, dirt, dirt!" and laughing the whole time. That sure was fun.
Nice to have some power/torque isnt it. You can tell talent when a transplant car goes on the track and there are only a few little issues such as a rev limiter. Just a little more sorting --right. So when are you entering a race? in the low 1:30-40's yet? hehe--I see it coming. By the way was the floor board hot? Could you warm your sandwich up on it? We used to do that on the old 55 fords that had the header pipes end right under the front floorboards. Ahhh--the old days--now its microwave ovens.
By the way --would you believe (with my 235/40-17's) i almost run the entire track at Roebling in 4th. The ONLY gearchange is the front straight into 5th. Then off course the downshift going into 1.
Really wish i had seen that car run (and heard it--bet it sounded sweet)--well another time.
take care my friend.
olddragger
Nice to have some power/torque isnt it. You can tell talent when a transplant car goes on the track and there are only a few little issues such as a rev limiter. Just a little more sorting --right. So when are you entering a race? in the low 1:30-40's yet? hehe--I see it coming. By the way was the floor board hot? Could you warm your sandwich up on it? We used to do that on the old 55 fords that had the header pipes end right under the front floorboards. Ahhh--the old days--now its microwave ovens.
By the way --would you believe (with my 235/40-17's) i almost run the entire track at Roebling in 4th. The ONLY gearchange is the front straight into 5th. Then off course the downshift going into 1.
Really wish i had seen that car run (and heard it--bet it sounded sweet)--well another time.
take care my friend.
olddragger
07-18-2006, 06:33 AM
#59
Registered
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Marietta,Ga
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OD, the floorboard does get hot despite heat shielding and a false floor on the drivers side. I can see warming a sandwich up being a challenge as by the time it needed to be flipped it would have slipped to a side to far to reach while harnessed in with Hans device and all! I hope to get to the 1:35-40 range but it's gonna take some time and regrowth of a couple of dangling appendages on me if you know what I mean.
Chas
Chas
07-23-2006, 01:57 PM
#60
Registered
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Charie,
Nice to hear the car ran great and is fulfilling your expectations. I wish I had half the talent you have when it comes to building cars let alone driving them.
Hey Don,
You need to set up a video camera in your yard to catch some of your antics when track days get close. You maybe could sell them to comedy central. Speaking of driving lawnmowers with helmets, my manager's uncle is the guy that set the world record for the fastest lawnmower a couple of weeks ago.
Nice to hear the car ran great and is fulfilling your expectations. I wish I had half the talent you have when it comes to building cars let alone driving them.
Hey Don,
You need to set up a video camera in your yard to catch some of your antics when track days get close. You maybe could sell them to comedy central. Speaking of driving lawnmowers with helmets, my manager's uncle is the guy that set the world record for the fastest lawnmower a couple of weeks ago.
07-23-2006, 02:15 PM
#61
Registered
Thread Starter
LOL, that was really funny about the guy setting the Lawnmower speed record. I saw it on TV. And on my antics... I could make a great short movie from that story. That night I lay in bed trying to keep from laughing out loud while my wife was trying to sleep. I have another story about a trip up Mt. Rainier that is almost as funny, that is if you like laughing at an idiot driving up a curvy mountain road with one hand while holding a video camera with the other and the wife screaming obsinities the whole time. If I'm able to use the video it will only be presented without the audio. LOL!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Pelleilee
New Member Forum
6
09-29-2019 10:07 AM
Touge
Canada Forum
0
07-28-2015 09:52 PM