Stop&TurnFreak

Ok guys, I finally went and drove a Lotus, and although it would be a fabulous track car, daily duties would be a joke, and the wifey didn't like how 'nimble' the car was.

So, now I am back to square one.

The choices are as follows:

1. 350Z
2. RX8
3. S2000
4. M3
5. STi
6. Evo RS
7. Mustang GT
8. Used Cobra (01 / 03)

Here is the challenge. I want something the wifey can 'enjoy' as much as me. If I choose the Evo or STi, all that could be done to the cars would be suspension, NOTHING more.

Right now, I am leaning toward the M3, but the maintenance cost would be killer, not to mention the cost of upgrading the brakes and other parts for track duty. As much as I want another Evo, or STi, if i can't do power mods, really, with the weight of the car, what is the point. The 350Z sounds fun, but then, again, I am upgrading brakes not to mention other parts for track duty.

The RX8 would fit the bill, but I am worried about the wifey and the 'starting' challenges. However, it would be the closest competitor for kid duties. Not to mention the latest issue of car and driver rated it the best in a comparo against the new TT, 350Z, Mustang, and others.

Guys, chime in here, and let me know what I am missing. Am I just being too rigid on my requirements. Should I just concede and say i can't have a car that will out-perform my old heavily modded Evo, and still do daily duty. What other cars should I consider?

Thanks guys.....

swoope

iTrader: (5)

i will answer this ? only if you will be my first instructor..

fair..

the answer is the rx8.... i have almost 70k miles on the car.. i have never done the shut off rev to blah blah.. i dont have the upgraded starter.. i did get the bat...

i have never managed to flood it... and that is with an 04....

note i dont deal with cold weather.. but the flooding is a non issue. it is a sky is falling thing...

btw, i hand my car to valets often..

beers

eviltwinkie

I cant get the wifey away from mine...and taking the rx to the track is just hella fun...kids dig it...insurance was cheap...and the parts for upgrading is cheaper than the others in the same class...

rddragoness

^^^ I have to agree with Swoope. I live in N al, and we have had some cold weather this year, and I have had no garage, and I've had no problems.

Forget any year Mustang if you are wanting to keep this vehicle long term. I traded an 05 GT for my 8. Absolutely NO regrets, and my 6'2 son sits comfortably in the back seat of my 8 at times, and his 6'4 friend sits comfortably directly in front of him. Let your wife test an 8..with you in the car, and then you drive it with her in the car. Thats all she should need. Get an MT though. Honestly the experience is just not the same in an AT, sport paddles or not. Common sense should prevail in all the other often detailed problems that 8 owners have. Trust me, I have an 06, and I would say 99% of whatever bugs plagued the 8 have been dealt with or dealers have no problems taking care of. I have had NO problem with mine, and have had her 10 months and have a little over 15K miles on her.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

and i need to post this somewhere else.

i would love to see a contest on flood my car please..


i dont think it can be done.

beers

Stop&TurnFreak

I have driven alot of 8's at the track, and I have admitted, it was the closest thing to the Evo I have ever driven. If it had 100 more whp, it would be my choice, no doubt. The wifey has test drove them, and she, too, loves them. We both love the lines of the car, especially the ones with all the fairing on them.

I may have to go for another round of test drives, to see which I like.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

we could make a deal!!!!!

i think i know who you are..

beers

TrackAddict

Dave - knowing you, you want to be able to whip up on everything at the track. I also know you have a child so the 350Z and the S2000 are out since they have no back seat.
RX8 - you already know what a great car it is on and off the track. Forget about any real power gains though. Can you be happy being the fastest TTD car on the track? A TTC car well driven will beat the 8. Some tracks favor the 8 but you will be really down on HP on any straight.
EVO/STi - you just sold one. Why go down the same path again?
M3 - a fine car. It has great handling, good power. But once again, Z06s will be handing you your ***.
Mustang/Cobra - not the most refined ride in the world! But cheap to add power and suspension bits to make it quick and handle excellent.

I would choose the RX8 but then again I have not had 400+ whp under me on a track to see how that feels and the thrill of whipping up on everyone else. Lately I have been wondering how well those other guys who have more HP than me would fare in a similar powered car as me...

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Dave -- all I can say is GET THE DAMN 8 dude! Jesus------- you have been thinking about that for some time Ok joking around is over.
Seriously---the 8 is a very unque car. I have taken my family(4 of us) on vaction in it to Florida with plenty of room. You see how we all carry track gear in it.
Go to Lowes and put a 2x4x8 foot long in it and close all the windows and doors and go home. The room is great and the accessibility to that room is really good.
The ride is really good--smooth and precise--very comfortable---could take a cross country trip in it without a problem.
It is dependable--i have never flooded mine in the almost 4 yrs i have had it. Hell I am still running the oem front disc's after almost 3 yrs of track events (4 per year) and 45K of road driving!
Its a 4 door so insurance is good!
The car ,for mods is getting more and more sorted out. FI is available and people are putting down 300hp to the wheels with a good, on edge, tune. Between 250 and 280 seems to be the street output with a street tune. Without FI --and with the usual mods (including reflashes)between 210-220hp to the wheels. Mazmart can build you a 260hp engine (to the flywheel) anytime. Yep-- no monster torque but track is track, and besides all the racing is with the pack--not out front. In the pack is where the fun is.
But petit has a s.c. you can do, Mazsports has some really trick turbos if you want--etc.
M3---dont do it--insurance will put you in shock, maintanence will put you in shock, repairs will put you in shock, cost of the car will put you in shock!
Mustang---hell-- EVERYONE has a Mustang! But with a few mods it can be a very good track car--still you end up with a Mustang Sorry Torque!! Its heavy also--so, tires and brakes dont last long?
s-2000-----hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ok--great little cars but just a 2 seater. You would have to put a roll bar in to run nasa wouldnt you?
350Z---good car--lots of potential--but there again only 2 useable seats. Our friends car looks great--he did the car justice --but the stock unit looks like a bar of soap
One you didnt mention is the Subaru station wagon. Hmmmmm.
GET THE 8 MAN. BEST ALL AROUND CHOICE!!!!!!
olddragger

dbright007

Dave - am not going to try to talk you into or out of an 8.
Or any of the cars you listed. But just seems like from reading your first post you listed a bunch of stuff that has no shot. If you need 4 seats, and the M3 to pricey to track and DD, and you can't mod the Evo/Sti to where it was- where does that leave you?

If it WON'T work, take it off the list and find options that do to compare to. And ask yourself are you willing to take that hit on horses. Not trying to spend anyone's money, but if you looked at Lotus - why not split the cost that would have been and spend 3/4 on a fine family DD you both can enjoy, and 1/4 on something more dedicated to track you can mod how you want.
Just don't pigeon hole yourself.

Stop&TurnFreak

Ok, guys, thanks for the suggestions.

To address some of these questions, the BMW is on the list because the wifey loves those cars. She has wanted one since we are married, and it was kind of a compromise for us to get the M. Performance, and it meets her BMW standard.

As for getting a family car, and, track car, i looked into that, and to be honest, I did that with the Evo. I was only putting 1G of miles per hear on the Evo every year when I sold it. I swore, I would neve have a car just 'hang out' in the garage, and suck up money and not be used. the wifey wouldn't drive it, and said it didn't look professional.

So, I guess the list really boils down to the following:

350Z (wife likes these ok)
S2000 (wife really liikes these, but it is a kid and her only car, no family duties.)
M3 (wife's dream car, because it is BMW, not because it is an M)
RX8 (Wife likes these, and could daily it, but not her 'first' choice)


My only problem is the only car on the list that can be made to be 'really' fast on-track would be the Z or M3. The S2k and the RX8 could too, but I question realiability with boost, and yes whatever I get will eventually have boost.

They will all need brake and suspension upgrades, not to mention, s2k would need refits of hardware mounting points to run stiffer springs and R compounds.

I just hate the fact I was always 'fast' with the Evo, and now I am going to have to really work to match any of the times I easily could do in the Evo. Not that any of these cars are copentent on-track, they just lack in the ooomph department.

eviltwinkie

Get an RX + SC or Turbo and call it a day. Best compromise based on your requirements. Later on, move up to the M. Once tracking the RX youll be a better driver anyway so its a great learning tool once you get the M...then you can put all that juice and skill to work.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

If you want a car as nimble as the Lotus and can stand a 2 seater, get a MX5 Miata. The next choice for a handling car would be the RX8. All though both of these cars have less HP than the others on your list.

MoodDude

S&TF - read the lastest issue of Car&Driver, the new 350Z beat the RX8 by almost 1 second per lap on a road coarse and the car is $6,000 cheaper. It also beat the Audi TT and Shelby Mustang GT by many seconds per lap. It also beat all of them at the drag stip and skid pad testing. The new 306 hp VQ35HR engine is the best engine that Nissan has made (that is until the GT-R comes out next year). They tested using a 350Z base model, which for a track Z is the best one made, and just add a Quaife LSD to the rear end and you are done. The Z can fit massive tires in front (285) and rear (315) with no modification. For suspension on the Z all you need is some adjustable front A-Arms, adjustable sway bars, and some koni's shocks and that is it.

The only thing that the 8 has over the Z is back seats and a nicer interior.

M3 still use a Mcphersion strut for the front suspension, this is 80 year old technology. When will BMW finally update to a 4-bar linkage design? Yet, I love the M emblems and the look and smell of their cars!

S2000 - best transmission ever made bar none! Yet, my friend sold his Z and bought a S2000 for fun on track. Let's just say that he quickly sold the S2000 and still today wishes he kept his Z, he now has a FFR.

STI and EVO - I really like the engine and AWD of these cars. Yet, they just don't look like a sports car, and they are not very areodynamic.

Stop&TurnFreak

I just read that article last night..... I really like the idea of a Z, but I will have to take the wifey for a test drive, and make sure she likes it. My first car was a 300ZX, and i can't say I wouldn't lke to have another. MD, if I decided to go with a Z, what years should I stay away from? I know the 03 made a track model with bigger brakes, where they really worth anything, or would I be better upgrading them to Racing brake 6pots? I get a pretty aggressive discount from them.

Also, what years would be better for boost, and based on your experience, how much is 'safe' before stressing the bottom end? I was considering buying a used one and having the motor gone through, depending on how old it is.

The real consideration here is the wife HAS TO LIKE THE car. But, I want to make sure I hear all your considerations, so I can continue to steer her in the right direction.

MoodDude

S&TF - if you are looking for a used 350Z, look for a 2005 base model. The 287hp motor was and still is better than the 300hp high reving VQ35 since the lower and mid torque was so much better on the 287hp motor (the new 306hp has more torque through the entire rpm now).
The base model just doesn't have a LSD, but the stock LSD is a viscous unit, which will fail after 30,000miles. A torsen unit like the Quife will last longer than the car, has 80% lock up, is plesent to drive on the street, requires virtually no maintance, and has such a smooth engagement that you will forget it is even there (until you lay on the power at mid corner!).

The base model is the lightest since it doesn't have all the extras, but will be noisy in the drivers seat since they don't put any sound insulation in the car (you have to get the Track or Touring model for that). But that saves about 100# on the car! And the traction control on the car is just plain stupid, so don't spend your money on it unless your wife likes the other options on the car (the touring and track model came with traction control, but does have a on - off button).
The track Brembo's are nice, but you can buy a nice used set off of someone for $1,500 to $2000 and will fit any 350Z with 18" wheels. The Track model Brembos are 4 pot front and 2 pot rear. There are better braking systems on the market for the Z and if you can get them you are set. Most people have problems with the stock Z brakes due to the traction control not the brakes themselves.

The 03's had a problem with front tire feathering and both the 03's and 04's had a problem with the transmissions. But Nissan replaced all of them on warrantee, so any used Z should have the latest transmission on it. But, if you just replace the upper A-Arm on the 03 and do a correct alignment - feathering is gone. The Z comes with no front camber adjustment, so you need to replace the upper A-Arm anyway if you are tracking the car a lot.
The problem with the VQ35 is the rods, if you are going to boost the car, the 287hp motor is the easiest to boost, but the rods will fail at sometime (most people can get 50,000 miles before failure on the stock engine running just under 450rwhp running 9psi with the APS TT kit w/exhaust and test pipes). But, if you install some Eagle rods on the car, you can get upto 550rwhp running 12psi safely on the car (the crank and pistons can handle more than this, but the head bolts can't).

The Chassis is so much stiffer on the Z33 than the Z32 that you will instantly notice a difference.

Your wife will problably like the touring Z best since it comes with a better interior and is really quiet inside the car.

You can ask about tracking the Z and which one to get here:
http://www.my350z.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=305

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

how about the twin turbo 330I series bmw---sweet car. or wait for 1-2 yrs and get the new v8 m3 reportedly coming out. Then we can get into the Audi/Volvo line! Too many choices!
The Z is sweet --but is the rear seat usable? G-35? Is it too heavy?
Olddragger

MoodDude

OD - there is no rear seat on the Z - the way a sports car should be.

I have a lot of friends who work for BMW - there are a bunch of issues with the TT 330I, you need to wait a few years for them to work out the issues. And I love I-6's on the M's the V8 will make it seem like an american car.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Mood--Goes to show you how much I know. Didnt know about the issues with the TT 330. BMW does have a way of overengineering a car--I guess making it more likely to have some quirks.
STF likes power(i think) and the v8 m3 will sure have some.
How is your car coming along? One sweet ride. One sweet ride. I think you have the best Z I have seen. You set it up great--even with those stripes--which at first i didnt like but after a 2nd look those things looked good.
Olddragger

Phlash

not to throw a loop in here but what happened the the RS4? Four doors, all wheel drive, 432 BHP....................

L8APEX

+1 on that. family hauler and track monster, all in one. and you get over 400 bhp right out of the box.

and STF, if you are looking for another car that will run on the track the way your EVO did, you will once again end up with a car that your wife will not want to drive, and won't want anything to do with. there is a trade off, lap times are not all that matters, especially when hauling the family around.

it will be interesting to see what you end up with, and be good to see you hit the track with us again one of these days.

Stop&TurnFreak

I can't bring myself to 'track' a RS4. Also, dealers wouldn't budge on price on even used one's. for 70k, I can get a used 06 BMW M5 with 505whp. Also, after driving the RS4 in Vegas, it really wasn't much more impressive than my brother-in-law's S4 with heavy mods.

MoodDude

I have everything figured out now, got the quotes back, going to spend a few bills soon, and then should be back on track in 3 months or less. I still have a long list of things I would like to do to her, but will have to wait until I have more time and money. When she gets back on track I will probably do a few more HPDE to get the feel of the new engine than it will be all time trails from then on.

L8APEX

hey Mood, any idea what TT class you would be in?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Take it too the body shop

Even after very explicit instructions about not shutting it off till it was warmed up.....they flooded it the first day they had it...and had to push it aroud for 2 days in the shop. They asked me what to do...I said " 2 options...wait for me to come and get it started...of take it across the street to the dealer and expect to be raped for about $300 to get it going"

Guess which one they chose It took me almost an hour to get it going. When I pulled the plugs...it spewed fuel out of the plug holes almost like a liquid fog.....I was worried that I was going to cause a fire....

Had to inject some oil to get some compression...and clean and dry off the plugs twice before it started. It was inside...they won't need to fumigate for bugs anytime soon

Cheers