RX8-TX

Wow...this thread is going! Anyways, just wanted to make a couple comments on some posts:

#1
That statement is just wrong. You are overlooking intertia & mass @ the flywheel, clutch & trasmission. The 8 is carrying quite a lot more inertial energy through its drivetrain when dumping -or even slipping the clutch- from 5,000 rpms than a 350Z, doing a standstill start from idle or a lower rpm. It would not transfer that much energy per time unit. That is, if drivertrain components are of comparable mass -and I don't see anything that indicates a big difference between the two.

#2
And I hope it stays that way for insurance purposes at least! :p

khtm

No exhaust...stock car...he lived in my apartment and parked near me in the parkade. I don't see why he would lie. Maybe cops here are just jerks?

Pkskull77

Don't have to go 100% WOT to feel the added acceleration a more powerful car offers. However, there probably are some people out there who do! I'd venture to guess their cars don't last to long.

Broker73

Niro, I have been lurking for a while, and I am sorry but have to comment on the WRX comparison? more than a few times I have pulled from a light and a guy in his WRX (220hp) model wanted to take a run at me.....it was pretty much even. In fact on the highway I had one behind me that thought he would try pull on me and didn't....I know there are some underpowered 8's out there, but I have to wonder why all the talk about how the 8 is not a quick?...I guess niether is the WRX, or the RSX-S, or even the G35 for that matter...and flame away if you like, but my best friend had a 2003 G35C and before you sold it he tried to play with from 2nd to 3rd...now granted it was a very quick little stint, we were both surprised he didn't pull all that much? The 8 is not a fast car, but it has decent power....would I like another 50hp, of course !

Just for the record, I took a 2005 350Z Ann out on the long weekend for a test drive...was thinking of adding it to the fleet !... :D Was not blow away by it. Yes it did feel quick, but not mind blowing compared to the 8. For the better ride quality, and interior, I am more happy with my decision now than before.

Pkskull77

They guy who was driving the WRX you raced was not driving it well. The WRX is faster than an 8, and if driven correctly will put a signifigant amount of distance on you before you shut down. However, the two are close enough to make it a drivers race, and you happened to be the better driver in this circumstance. Now a modded WRX, and when I say modded I mean just an ecu reprogram, will pull on you so long as the driver can shift gears without grinding.

HeelnToe

Are you suggesting that handling isn't an issue during "normal" driving?

I used to drive a 210hp, Eclipse GST. Similar if not slightly better acceleration than the 8, though with much more torque. And yet the driving experience with the two cars is vastly different, even when merely commuting to work or picking up groceries. The 8 is much, much more nimble and tossable - eager to turn in, where the Eclipse would feel like an oil tanker trying to change directions.

That's a "feel" that I appreciate every day, during every drive, whether carving up corners or just hunting for a parking space. Every turn of the wheel is fun, light, enjoyable... where the Eclipse always felt like I was punishing it somehow.

Sigma

This is true. I don't deny that other cars appeal to a wider audience for a variety of reason, the torque curve being a major one. In fact I explicitly stated that. But it doesn't mean that they're 'better' cars, performance cars, or sports cars. They just take different approaches to the creation of one.

You don't have to push a car to notice superior handling. I can drive a GTO (a car I love BTW) down the block and know that the RX-8 is far superior of a handler, even though the skidpad numbers don't even necessarily show it.

Handling is comprised of a variety of items of which quantitative data acquired by pushing a car to its' limits to find its' highest sustainable lateral g is probably the least of.

Steering Feel, Steering Response, Turn-In, Weight, Balance, Body Roll (not the stock RX-8s strongest point), and Various other forms of Aural and Tactical Feedback all conspire to create a well-handling car that is fun to drive. And all are noticeable 100% of the time you are driving, no matter if you're going fast, slow, or through a corner. The best-handling car in the world can be an absolute bore to drive if the steering is numb. There's Handling, and there's Handling with Confidence. Two entirely different things. But because they're all noticeable does that mean that they're all valued as much as, say, acceleration? Depends on who you ask. Obviously to the 100-some-odd-thousand people that bought an RX-8 they're more important. Obviously to those who continue to buy Mazdas despite the fact that they're virtually never the fastest in their class they're more important traits.

People say the RX-8 is a great handler, yes, because it is. In fact much moreso than its' relatively mediocre skidpad numbers suggest because of all the other items that it excels at. But what they repeatedly use are the words "Balanced" and "Finesse" -- and you don't have to push the car to notice it. You can simply change lanes on the freeway and notice a strong difference in the RX-8 and 350Z.

Niro

Right...those cars are faster, although not THAT much faster...point is they are faster. I don't know why you threw the rsx into the mix...that car starts about $5k cheaper.

Also you gotta remember...with the rx8, what you see is what you get...your done at what you have, you can MAYBE add 10-20whp IF you're lucky with a few thousand dollars (without turbo)...all those other cars you mentioned...$1k will get you enough acceleration to turn it from a drivers race to a blowout.

Pkskull77

Handling is an issue, but not between the WRX, 350z and RX-8. I would hesitate to call an Eclipse a sports car, but I suppose it falls into that category. However, everything you mention is clearly subjective, unless someohow you've scientifically calculated that the handling on the 8 is substantially better than the Eclipse. Furthermore, just becuase a car feels better to you, when doing something does not mean that it actually is. The feedback from the 8 is excellent, that does not mean that the 8 is necissarily a better handler.

I do concied that the 8 probably outhandles the Eclipse.

Broker73

Niro, I have to disagree with the WRX being faster....had personal experience with that one. Even the rolling start times are close.

Broker73

oh and the comment about the RSX-8 being 5k cheaper for comparison...isn't the G35 and 350Z at least 5K more expensive than the 8...yes they are.

Niro

you can disagree all you want, this is a FACT, the wrx is faster...unless the driver doesn't know what he's doing. A couple of hundred dollars into the wrx will make it alot more then just a "little faster", the driver won't have to know what he's doing to easily beat you with 500$ into it.

khtm

I've read that the WRX (not STI) is a 6 second 0 to 60 car so I don't know why it's so unbelievable that Broker73 felt it was as fast as his 8. That's a driver's race, straight out.

Broker73

ok dude...lol...I guess my real world driving experience with more than one WRX was a dream.....from a light, and on the highway.

you win :p

Cars are close to dead even...sorry :D

khtm

Are you talking about the STi?

Niro

ok keep the rsx in there if you want...the rx8 still barely beats it...by what .5 seconds MAYBE? The STi is only 2k more then an rx8 and it'll beat it by over 2 seconds....oh and it'll outhandle it too.

Niro

no the regular wrx...the sti is too fast to compare to an rx8...

Sigma

A G35 is only $2K (maybe $3K, can't recall exactly) more than a comparably-equipped RX-8 GT. And a 350Z is roughly the same price if you were to say that Enthusiast == Touring and Touring == Grand Touring. The primary difference being lack of moonroof.

A 350Z can cost much more than an RX-8 bu that's because Nissan charges absurds amount of money for options. If Nissan didn't charge so much for options like Leather the Z (almost twice the price as an RX-8 with half the seats to cover) would probably be cheaper.

Unless you want to figure in rebates. Then the price difference grows.

Niro

like I said...the wrx is a little faster, it'll be a drivers race...KHTM, the wrx is actually a 5.7 0-60 car...not 6. and like I said...$500 will turn it from a drivers race to a blowout by any driver that knows how to shift.

Broker73

STI only 2k more??.......ok dude, do you even own the 8??...now you are switching topics just to find a reason to bash the car...? Lets see, based on US$ the STI will retail in the mid 30's...(looked it up), and the 8 31k tops.....more than a slight difference !! In Canada the gap is even larger....you have no clue. And the fact you try and change topics to the STI (not even in the same class?) says it all....

Broker73

The 350z, STI and G35 are all more costly in Canada.

khtm

So you don't think it could be a driver's race between a WRX an RX-8 (stock for stock)?

EDIT: I see you already answered. Thanks.

Broker73

wrx 0-60 5.7...I don't think so.....just pull that one out of the air I guess didn't yah. Then I guess the fact I kept up with him from a light makes my 8 a 0-60 5.7 car ????? :p

Pkskull77

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Actually car and drive once put the WRX at 5.4, but now they rank it at 5.7. I've owned both cars and from a dead stop the WRX is faster, no doubt about it. The driver you ran against did not know what they were doing. When I had the 8 I dragged (on a track) a couple of cars that I know are faster than the 8, and won. So no that doesn't make the 8 a 5.7 second car.

Off the line the car most comprable to the WRX is the 350Z, is the RX-8 faster than a 350z?

See here for 0-60 time:

http://www.fast-autos.net/subaru/04subaruwrx.html

http://www.fast-autos.net/mazda/04mazdarx8.html

Niro

LOL ok it's 5k more I made a mistake...it's $32k to start...the rx8 is 27.8k to start...go to subarus site. There's not much more you can add to the sti either...you can max it out at 35k if you add all the little tiny things. That's retail...I guess their site has no clue...

EDIT: Oh I didn't finish reading your pointless post...how is the STi not in the same class again? It's a 4 door sport car just like the rx8, same price range too...what other class is there??