Broker73

Interesting highlight on the 0-60times

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1


here you go Niro, I'll highlight what you should read

"Despite the obsessive reductions, our tester weighed just 116 fewer pounds than the lightest WRX we've measured. Still, with the extra power and more closely spaced gearing, the STi Type RA Spec C rips to 60 mph in 5.1 seconds. That's almost a second faster than most WRXs we've tested (we made a 5.4-second run in a standard WRX, but others have been in the 5.8-to-5.9-second range). The Type RA Spec C is as quick as a Mustang Mach 1 and quicker, by a few 10ths, than the Nissan 350Z."

Once again, all I was saying is most WRX's are probably close to the 8, at least mine.

silentgame

if u want to talk about STI's why not throw in the EVO too. they start at $27-28 and in most comparisions always beat the STI, and the 4g63 motor has been around for over ten years. That shows reliability but it also means people have had time to learn to tune it.

I can't wait until we start learning to tune this car because it has great potential.
If someone would have said ten years ago there would be 10 second street legal civics no one would have believed it. I'm just waiting for this ecu to be cracked because we already have a great platform to start with.

Hornet

Not to get directly into the ongoing debate but here are some interesting things that I'm not sure are being considered (basically I think a lot of things are being overlooked but I don't want to say either side is right or wrong)! The WRX in manual is about AT LEAST .5 faster than in automatic. I had seen an article a while back that did a test on the auto WRX and this could contribute sometimes (I believe it was Car and Driver that did the test). Other times I think temperature can have more of an effect on turbo cars as well (especially when the 8 and WRX are so close in power). On another note I noticed my 8 sometimes seems like it is faster after I add some oil (especially at higher speeds). This argument is nowhere near cut and dry as to whether an 8 or WRX is faster!

BTW here is a little bit more that shows an '02 WRX wagon with the automatic doing some times that would definately say that the possibility exists!

http://www.car-stats.com/stats/shows...tsgivenid.aspx

Sigma

If you consider "a few options" to include Appearance Package, 5-CD changer, a spare tire, all sorts of various other add-ons and a $2000 Navigation system. It's not at all "easy" to get an RX-8 over $35K. A 'base' (if you want to call it that) GT is only $31.4K

Hornet

I know mine was sticker priced at $33K and if it had the Nav in it it would have been exactly as you said $35K!

Niro

haha...easily offended aren't we? It's ok man...take some pills, relax, take your vacation, you could really use it from the sounds of it.

I don't think I changed topics on you...actually we were talking about cars in the rx8 price range and how the rx8 is slower then most...I guess if you bring a car that is leaps above the rx8 in every category without question you start getting panic attacks and write up posts like this. So you're ok with this whole argument as long as we don't bring any cars that are MUCH faster at the same price range...

I see where you're coming from...it's easy to argue that tho' the rx8 maybe the slowest car in its class...it's only slower by .2 - .5 seconds then xxx car...but once you start talking about yyy car that's 2 seconds faster in the same price range...you can do nothing but flame and try to say it's not relavent somehow.

Enjoy mexico, drink alot...will help you relax some

Also...a regular wrx can become MUCH faster then an rx8 for less then $1k...rx8's are pretty much maxxed out where they are now...maybe a few more hp here and there...nothing significant.

here's some pics of my car...might calm your anxiety down a bit...

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-show-shine-26/green-nxt-pics-63490/

Pkskull77

I’m not truly convinced about the potential of this motor. Is it possible to get the RX-8 to go really fast? Hell ya, but at what cost. The tuning that went into the RX-7 made it one of the most unreliable cars on the road. The RX-7 was so bad it almost ran Mazda into the ground. Therefore I feel it unlikely you will see a factory turbo.

With this in mind the turbo is going to have to come aftermarket, and at that point you might as well just buy another car. As long as the RX-8 stays NA, you will not see huge gains in power, because the car is essentially at its limits. Take off the exhaust you get 2-3 horses. Fiddle with the ECU, it adjusts. Noting anyone has done has added significant amounts of power, without ruining the warranty, and spending tons of cash.

I love the 8, it’s a fantastic car, but you will never win a pissing match with another sports car of comparable cost, as the 8 is currently tuned to near perfection, and its not really that fast. There are a couple of horses to be found here and there, but absent a new engine there are no reliable power gains to be had. If it bothers you that much sell your car, this is not the same beast the RX-7 was.

Pkskull77

STI is faster off the line that the EVO, the differences are found when you run the car around the track. While track times are very relevant in evaluating performance, its not the topic of this debate. As a side, and I admit I have nothing to back this up, the EVO uses a ton of bost to accomplishes it's acceleartion times, and I would be willing to bet the relability of the car suffers signifigantly.

Broker73

slowest car in its class?..lol....ok pal.....anyway, you are funny. And yah guys who makes claims when the facts state slightly different make me laugh. You sound as if most times posted for the WRX are noticeably faster than the 8. lets see 0-60 close, and 1/4 mile mid 14's, once again close. Now price range, well the G35 and 350Z are a good leap more than the 8 up here, thats the facts.......maybe you have a dud for a car, but between a WRX and an 8, its a drivers race, and I have tested that.....but lets face it, both cars are quick, neither are fast. I could show you 4 or 5 links showing almost identical 0-60 and 1/4 mile times for both cars, but you would find a way to deflect that to. And back to price, I could spend 5-6k more on the 350Z up here for what?...an extra .5 off the 0-60 time, and maybe .5 - .8 in the 1/4, for a harsh ride and cheap interior..no thanks

And maybe my buddy with his G35 didn't know how to drive, but from 2nd to third he had half a car length on me.....now that may widen as speed picks up, but he didn't walk away. And don't bring up mods??....lol...who cares about that, we were't even talking about how much we can spend to make it go faster....maybe you should sell your pig slow 8 and buy the WRX, you seem to have a fetish with it......now go back to your Nintedo.

If the 8 is the slowest car in it's class, I guess that makes the WRX slow as well........ .1 sec difference to 60 ??.....yah ok, I guess the WRX would have me by a bumper are you happy

Niro

Don't bring mods in to the topic? Uhm....why not? Cuz it's where the rx8 suffers most?

No amount of money will make you keep up with an STi...less then $1k into a wrx will blow the rx8 away...you can drop $5k for performance mods into an rx8 and you still won't catch up...you're at your limit now...the wrx stock is barely scratching the surface of its limits. I don't have a fetish with the sti or regular wrx...obviously or I would of bought it over my 8...I'm just not delusional thinking that my car is some kind of speed animal that will keep up with most sport cars on the road. It might KEEP UP with some of them....but if they even slightly mod their car....dont' bother even trying.

Yea, the WRX is .2 secs faster only...but its EASY to make that car go faster, you got no options to make your car go any faster. Not to mention that to keep up with the WRX you need to drop the clutch at 7k rpms...have a few runs with a wrx doing that, see who ends up in the shop first for blown transmisions and other fun problems.

BTW...most people who purchase the RX8 do so KNOWING that it's one of the slower straight line sport cars you can get at this price...why do you think there's no kill section on this forums? If you didn't know that (by how upset you are you sound like you might not of known that? )...the rx8 brings different qualities then straight line racing.

Broker73

ok pal, pull your head out of your #$!#!. 7k clutch drops??..lol.....did you look at the 5-60 times for the WRX

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=3

once again you make it easy to make you look like an idiot. These cars are almost identical.


As far as price, let see, the Saab Vector, Audi TT, BMW 325i, I guess all of these guys got ripped off too? and paid more for equal or in most cases LESS performance. Who cares if you can mod a WRX for 2k and get power...we are talking stock for stock....man you are truly out to lunch, and if you really do own the 8, I feel sorry for you.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

here's another one...man I guess this car is a rip off too? performance numbers a little less stellar than the 8, and look at the price

I could go on and on, but my guess is you're to young to get it, or to narrow minded....none of these cars are fast...some quick yes, but I never will argue the 8 is fast...it ISN'T !....but it is quick, and will keep up with most cars in its class, and beat some.....like a few I mentioned here

I have no repsect for someone who contradicts themselves, or makes mindless claims. You flogged me for saying the 8 is quicker than the RSX and your comment was BUT ONLY .5sec....then you follow up by saying the WRX is faster by .2?????? once again, you made yourself look foolish when you just bashed me for the same thing. And most times a stated in more than a few mags have 0-60 in the 5.8-5.9 range.....right with the 8.....ok, ok, maybe its slower by .1secs... :D :D

Polak posted his time slip on here with a 14.4 1/4mile time....yah only one guy, but just like your claim of the WRX running 5.7 secs to 60, when most have showed higher.

Dude you don't get it, and never will, but you seem bent on making yourself look like a fool so keep it up.....makes me question your motives, and if you really own the car. Oh and nice pics, were they your friends?... :p

Longhornxtreme

The Rx8 is NOT at its limit... its that noone here is ready to take the first plunge into a higher flowing turbo setup. We don't 'know' what the engine can do. What we 'do' know is that our ECU is highly controlling and any sort of better engine management will have to incorporate various aspects of said ECU. A plug and play solution will probably never come around due to Ford's encryption. Besides, new injectors will be needed just to even reach STi power levels.

The Rx8's chassis is capable of SO much more power, its just that most Rx8 owners are more conservative than the kind of person who'd buy a doga$$ ugly STi....

Stop&TurnFreak

Having spent alot of time at the track with Evos and STis, and owning an Evo, I want to chime in here.

Well, I have open-tracked mine for 2 years now, missed shifts (8000+rpm), lost brakes(in 30minute sessions, they fail), basically beat the ever-living hell out of it, and well, it just comes back for more. Now, I do exercise common sense, and my first mod was a wide-band 02, Stand alone fuel system, and boost controller. I tune the car for every event, based on outside temp and other factors. Rarely, I run over 18.5lbs at the track, and sometimes if it is REALLY cold (28degrees at CMP) I have run as low as 16psi. Everything else on the car is stock, save the coil-overs and custom suspension components I have made.

Now to the other topic.....

First, fast is a relative term. Fast can mean, off the line, around a track, up a hill, what ever.

If you want to compare 0-60's, well, the WRX with AWD has an advantage, but I can tell you stock for stock, the WRX won't have a prayer of a chance against a stock RX8 on any road-course. Not even a 'capable' driver could make up the difference in weight, roll center, and lag. As for potential, I have seen several open-track setups on Japanese websites, putting down @250-270whp with the RX8. And having gotten their weight down to just under 2800 pounds, pretty much everything on the track was a rolling chicane. Granted, they went stand-alone on the ECU, or they hacked it, but still with boost, they were able to get good numbers.

And for what it is worth, the same money you would have to spend to get an RX8 down the quarter in 13 seconds is the same amount of money it would take to get a WRX to handle and stop like an RX8 'stock'. Now, I know you get get some magazines to prove this and that, but if you want REAL numbers, come to any track, watch, or ask. The RX8 is 'fast' out of the box, even with less than 200whp. Add springs, swaybars, and a some good brake pads, and well, let the good times roll. I have seen a 'pretty stock' RX8 at Roebling, easily running with 96-01 Cobras, STi's, and Evos. In my opinion, if the car can do that with the power deficiet it has, well it is 'fast'.

Pkskull77

First of all its not fair to call the STI ugly, its doesn't have the classic sportscar look, but neither does the RX-8. I've met plenty of people who honestly thought the 8 was an ugly car, and that’s their opinion, just as it's mine that the STI is not bad looking. I'm no fool, the STI is not a Ferrari, but most cars aren't.

As far as the 8's overall potential. The car can be made fast, but at what cost. The chassis is excellent, and a solid platform could be built on the car, but I find it unlikely that Mazda would be willing to take the risk. If you haven't noticed Mazda has become ridiculously conservative, and the 8 we know today is probably very close to what we'll see for a long time.

Since most performance will have to come aftermarket, and that means big money and loss of your warranty, it’s not worth it. If you want big time performance, buy a car that comes with it, or one that can be gotten at a better aftermarket price.

Finally, calling the 8 conservative compared to the STI isn't exactly the truth. As far as an every day driver is concerned the STI is actually a better car. It has 4 doors, is better on gas, far more reliable, and has all wheel drive. The 8 doesn't have a huge wing, but its far from the sophistication of a luxury sedan. I have a hard time believing

Sigma

He didn't say the car was conservative. He said the type of person that buys the car is more conservative.

Pkskull77

I agree that the RX-8 is fast on a track, absolutely no argument here. However, the thread is about 0-60 performance. If that's your thrill, the RX-8 is not your car. Can you get an RX-8 to put down good numbers? Hell ya, but its not worth it. The rotary engine is not good as an everyday driver when you've got it tuned to put out the power needed to accelerate quickly. If it was easy to get more power, Mazda would have done it. The car is not selling well, and since most of the early buyers were rotary enthusiast, I don’t see the numbers getting any better.

I think it sad that most cars are judged on 0-60 performance, but the fact of the matter is, most people drive them in a strait line. Taking a car to a track on a regular basis is not feasible, and that’s why many 8 owners find themselves upset about the cars performance. The car got rave reviews because the magazines drove them on tracks, but when you get the car home and take it on a commute there is just something lackluster about it. I was very dissapointed after driving the car for a couple of months.

er0sion

exhibition of speed, they give those all the time here... in my city

Pkskull77

The implication in calling the buyer conservative is that the car fits their lifestyle, and therefore is also conservative.

Sigma

The implication is that your average STi buyer is more likely to mod their car, particularly to push the limits of what he can do, than your average RX-8 buyer. Therefore you're going to see more coming out of it. I think it'd be a fair statement that just about every STi owner bought it for its' incredible performance -- I doubt the same could be said for even 1/4 of those that bought an RX-8.

But, yes, the RX-8 certainly fits are more "conservative lifestyle" a lot better than a boy-racer-looking STi. I'd be laughed out of the parking garage if I drove to work in an STi. It has nothing to do with how many seats it has or whether or not it's AWD or how overall practical it is. It only has to do with its' looks. Removing the spoiler would help a great deal, but I doubt it'd be able to slip by their old-fuddy-duddy radar.

er0sion

i dunno about you guys, but i still love my 8. chicks dig it. wrx's look like they're made out of legos. its wayy too boxy for me... i love swoopy curves, so do the ladies :P even to this day, people STILL say, "thats a mazda?!"

Pkskull77

Thats a pretty sad statement. You choose your car according to your co-workers opinion. I'm an attorney, and it doesn't get much more proffesional than that, and I don't think driving an STI would affect my position, or cause my co-workers to laugh at me.

Do you actually read some of the posts on this forum? Quite a few people have complained about the 8's power, or inquired about improving performance. I would be willing to bet that most of the longer treads are about aftermarket performance. Those Greedy treads got pretty freaking long, and a ton of people were very interested in the results.

Pkskull77

I hate to break it to you, girls only like the car because it looks expensive.

Stop&TurnFreak

First, I don't let me car speak to my 'professionalism'. I let my work do that. I drove the Evo for one year, and really didn't care what people thought. I did get the 'it's a lancer' but, when I pointed out it had twice the power of my bosses BMW323, and it cost as much as a new Mustang (GT), well, that all changed.

Also, the fact the car didn't 'spur' out of the gate is because alot of folks didn't like the fact Mazda over-claimed HP figures. That leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. However, the product is solid, and in time, it will sell. No other car offers the civility of the RX8, with the look (and feel) of a sports car. I am getting one for my wife, who has to haul around my one year old daughter. She is an AVID autocrosser, and loves the look of the car. I have to admit, when the turbo issues are straightened out, I may buy one and build it for a 'dedicated' track car. Strip it, big turbo, lots of suspension goodies, and BIG brakes. Then go Vette hunting. I bet with plexi-glass and shaving, I can get the thing down to 2600 pounds.

Sigma

I didn't say that I chose a car based on that. Just that a lot of people do. And I have seen first hand what happens when someone drives a plain WRX to work, let alone an STi. In my work driving Japanese is bad enough; driving rice-burner Japanese is even worse. The RX-8 though seems to slide by as does the G35 and 350Z.

I'd wager that I read almost every single post on this Forum. But, even on this Forum, only a small percentage is truly interesting in modding their car for high amounts of power, and this Forum is only representative of a small number of RX-8 buyers.

Niro

I have to disagree with that...trust me, people are trying HARD to get more performance out of the renesis.

I don't really consider adding a turbo a practical mod...I'm talking about little bolt ons...you're not going to get much out of those for the RX8...on the other hand, a WRX can easily be improved with a little bit of tuning.