4.778 Final Drive For $296
The following users liked this post:
adam7420 (03-22-2023)
12-01-2005 | 07:17 AM
#102
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 495
Likes: 0
From: Des Moines, Iowa
Originally Posted by Slick8
Just ordered from Kia $325 w/ shipping, comes in next week... Found a few Sportages in the salvage yards but the prices were for the entire front pumpkin at $350 the lowest.
Called Fountainhead Cryogenic Processing for treating the 4.778 ring and pinion, $5/lbs. Good insurance for the price.
Rick Heasel who resells the Kia 4.778 gears for the S2000 folks just gets them polydynned.
Called Fountainhead Cryogenic Processing for treating the 4.778 ring and pinion, $5/lbs. Good insurance for the price.
Rick Heasel who resells the Kia 4.778 gears for the S2000 folks just gets them polydynned.
12-01-2005 | 08:46 AM
#103
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: Philly
Thanks truemagellen.
I have the service manual now and it illustrates the step by step removal, disassembly, and assembly of the differential. I think there are two oil seals that I need from Mazda for the install, will call and order. They might be standard seals. EDIT: You can use the same ones if you have low miles, just make sure to use bearing grease liberally
My buddy Meatball has a small trans shop, I'll talk to him about the install. I'm guessing $100-200 for the pumpkin ring and pinion install.
EDIT: a 4 hour job based on the S2000 DIY. I'll drop the pumpkin and install myself.
I guesstimate a 0.3 to 0.5s less to a 1/4mi
.
I have the service manual now and it illustrates the step by step removal, disassembly, and assembly of the differential. I think there are two oil seals that I need from Mazda for the install, will call and order. They might be standard seals. EDIT: You can use the same ones if you have low miles, just make sure to use bearing grease liberally
My buddy Meatball has a small trans shop, I'll talk to him about the install. I'm guessing $100-200 for the pumpkin ring and pinion install.
EDIT: a 4 hour job based on the S2000 DIY. I'll drop the pumpkin and install myself.
I guesstimate a 0.3 to 0.5s less to a 1/4mi
.
Last edited by Slick8; 12-01-2005 at 12:06 PM.
12-01-2005 | 09:51 AM
#104
Senor Carnegrande
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 871
Likes: 0
How do we know the Kia gears aren't exactly the same as the 8's? If the Kia weighs more and makes more torque*, then I'd be surprised if they went with a weaker alloy. We have a machine here at work that can analyze a metal part and tell you the composition, so maybe you could find someone near you that could test the two gearsets? Maybe the cryo treatment isn't necessary at all. Just a thought.
*The Kia has higher engine torque, but you'd need to look at the torques after being multiplied by the first gear of each car's transmission.
*The Kia has higher engine torque, but you'd need to look at the torques after being multiplied by the first gear of each car's transmission.
12-01-2005 | 11:05 AM
#105
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: Philly
The front pumpkin on the Sportage is an exact match with the RX-7 differential (not sure if it was a 2nd or 3rd gen).
The S2000 guys have confirmed this, they use our stock RX-8 4.444, some other Mazda 4.333 off a B2000 or 1st Gen RX-7, Rick's aftermarket 4.57 made by Richmond gears, and the Kia Sportage 4.778 (S2000 Username: profpin).
The S2000 guys have confirmed this, they use our stock RX-8 4.444, some other Mazda 4.333 off a B2000 or 1st Gen RX-7, Rick's aftermarket 4.57 made by Richmond gears, and the Kia Sportage 4.778 (S2000 Username: profpin).
Last edited by Slick8; 12-01-2005 at 11:10 AM.
12-01-2005 | 11:48 AM
#106
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: Philly
Spending as much time on the S2000 forum than here 
. I want one now, dam!!! The V-Tech sounds ferocious 
.
Here's a step-by-step rear end swap from the S2000 forum, and since they're both Aisin units, the install will be nearly the same:
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85687
Tranny labor is about four hours, sans a DIY drop and install of the diff. I have the service manual and the parts/service/torque specs, thorough manual.
Looks like there are six parts needed for the install:
. I want one now, dam!!! The V-Tech sounds ferocious . Here's a step-by-step rear end swap from the S2000 forum, and since they're both Aisin units, the install will be nearly the same:
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85687
Tranny labor is about four hours, sans a DIY drop and install of the diff. I have the service manual and the parts/service/torque specs, thorough manual.
Looks like there are six parts needed for the install:
- Inner pinion bearing and race ?
- pinion lock nut ?
- crush ring $1
- diff oil $7
- gasket sealant $3
- yellow box +-0.25% correction $90 OR speedohealer +-0.1% correction $83
Last edited by Slick8; 12-01-2005 at 01:43 PM.
12-01-2005 | 03:26 PM
#107
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: NEW YORK
a few question:
Is the kia sportage gear set ur talkin bout from the lastest model?
And when u buy the gears does it come with just the ring and pinion or is it the whole differential?? I was assuming just the ring and pinion..thanx
Is the kia sportage gear set ur talkin bout from the lastest model?
And when u buy the gears does it come with just the ring and pinion or is it the whole differential?? I was assuming just the ring and pinion..thanx
12-01-2005 | 04:07 PM
#108
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: Philly
Is the kia sportage gear set ur talkin bout from the lastest model?
And when u buy the gears does it come with just the ring and pinion or is it the whole differential?? I was assuming just the ring and pinion..thanx
12-01-2005 | 04:40 PM
#110
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: NEW YORK
a 4.78 gonna make a hell of a diff. just from judgin from the s2k video...
also do you think wider tires would alter the performance increase of the mod.....note: the overall tire diameter is exactly the same
also do you think wider tires would alter the performance increase of the mod.....note: the overall tire diameter is exactly the same
12-04-2005 | 02:19 PM
#114
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,036
Likes: 1
From: Charleston, SC
I'd say .4 and change off the 6spd's 0-60, and .5 and change off of the auto's.
Unless the gears give you an extra shift in the 6spd. It's been a long time since I've driven one, so I don't know where 2nd will top out at with the gears.
Unless the gears give you an extra shift in the 6spd. It's been a long time since I've driven one, so I don't know where 2nd will top out at with the gears.
Last edited by therm8; 12-04-2005 at 02:25 PM.
12-05-2005 | 12:27 AM
#116
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: Philly
Originally Posted by kw1k
Fab 8 has his FEED 4.777 Final drive installed here is the PM he sent me with a bit of info on it
"I did do a pull with a wrx from 60kmh (35 mph) to 140kmh (87 mph) and I actually beat him by 2 car lengths...
So far, no regrets on the gear set - fuel consumption remains the same. I would definitely recommend this mod.
Will let you know if I get to run against another 8.
Cheers"
Now Idk about you guys but Putting 2 + cars on a WRX is pretty good!
"I did do a pull with a wrx from 60kmh (35 mph) to 140kmh (87 mph) and I actually beat him by 2 car lengths...
So far, no regrets on the gear set - fuel consumption remains the same. I would definitely recommend this mod.
Will let you know if I get to run against another 8.
Cheers"
Now Idk about you guys but Putting 2 + cars on a WRX is pretty good!
Horse power=240 @ 8300
LBS. torque =153 @ 7500
0-60 MPH=5.8sec
1/4 mile time=14.2@98.1mph
Specs for the WRX
Horse power=227 @ 6000 rpm
LBS. torque =217 @ 4000 rpm
0-60 MPH=5.6sec
1/4 mile time=14.1@96mph
Specs for the 350Z
Horsepower=287 @ 6,200 RPM
Torque (lbs/ft)=274 @ 4,800 RP
0-60 MPH=5.4sec
1/4 mile time=14.1@101mph
Last edited by Slick8; 12-05-2005 at 12:31 AM.
12-05-2005 | 09:31 AM
#119
RX8 ADDICTED!!!
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,108
Likes: 0
I just wanted to post this for all the people that didnt read the s2ki post, this is rick hensel's response to some of the 4.77 gears. I will be interested to see how many people have broken the gears as he said 3 of the 20 they sold have been replaced.
Our experience with the reliability of the 4.77s so far has been less than ideal. We have sold about 20 sets and 3 have failed in operation, a fifteen percent failure rate, which is dismal. But we warranty the gear sets, so we provided free replacements in every case.
We had another case where we assumed half of the cost of replacement, since the failure was the result of faulty installation. We also have all our gear sets specially treated by PolyDyn for extra durability. All this is a cost of business that has to be reflected in the price we charge. We are aware of several owners with forced induction who have already burned through two sets of the 4.77 gears. And the fact that the 4.77s are relatively new installs in many cars gives us pause about the problems that may crop up as they age. On the other hand, if you can find a Kia or Mazda dealer who can obtain the gears and will provide free replacements for gear set failures, more power to you. Better yet, if you can find them in a junkyard, great!
It’s a simple fact that the 4.77s (and stock gears, 4.3s, 4.44s, and 5.1s) were designed for cars with far less power than the S2000, and if you have a car with FI, enjoy clutch drops, or drive very aggressively, be aware of what you’re buying. That’s why we have the warranty on all the gears – to protect you, the buyer.
We went to Richmond Gear to have the 4.57 gear sets made precisely because we wanted a gear set of far higher quality and durability than the Mazda/Kia parts we and everybody else was selling. The 4.57s have been designed for the S2000, and have been extensively tested by Richmond Gear to ensure strength and durability. They are a far superior product to the 4.77s, 4.3s, and 4.44s, 5.1s and even the stock OEM gears (also a Mazda product).
Given all these considerations, our price for the 4.77s stands and will not be lowered. Our warranty also stands. If other suppliers sell them for less, with or without a warranty, so be it. That’s a free market at work!
We had another case where we assumed half of the cost of replacement, since the failure was the result of faulty installation. We also have all our gear sets specially treated by PolyDyn for extra durability. All this is a cost of business that has to be reflected in the price we charge. We are aware of several owners with forced induction who have already burned through two sets of the 4.77 gears. And the fact that the 4.77s are relatively new installs in many cars gives us pause about the problems that may crop up as they age. On the other hand, if you can find a Kia or Mazda dealer who can obtain the gears and will provide free replacements for gear set failures, more power to you. Better yet, if you can find them in a junkyard, great!
It’s a simple fact that the 4.77s (and stock gears, 4.3s, 4.44s, and 5.1s) were designed for cars with far less power than the S2000, and if you have a car with FI, enjoy clutch drops, or drive very aggressively, be aware of what you’re buying. That’s why we have the warranty on all the gears – to protect you, the buyer.
We went to Richmond Gear to have the 4.57 gear sets made precisely because we wanted a gear set of far higher quality and durability than the Mazda/Kia parts we and everybody else was selling. The 4.57s have been designed for the S2000, and have been extensively tested by Richmond Gear to ensure strength and durability. They are a far superior product to the 4.77s, 4.3s, and 4.44s, 5.1s and even the stock OEM gears (also a Mazda product).
Given all these considerations, our price for the 4.77s stands and will not be lowered. Our warranty also stands. If other suppliers sell them for less, with or without a warranty, so be it. That’s a free market at work!
12-05-2005 | 02:12 PM
#123
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: NEW YORK
well good luck with everything i am extremely excited to know as to how quicker the 8 will be....i got a friend in the tranny business too so this is extremely possible.....ARE YOU CRYO TREATING THE R&P??????
12-05-2005 | 03:57 PM
#124
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: Philly
Originally Posted by Tigster
I just wanted to post this for all the people that didnt read the s2ki post, this is rick hensel's response to some of the 4.77 gears. I will be interested to see how many people have broken the gears as he said 3 of the 20 they sold have been replaced.
12-05-2005 | 04:09 PM
#125
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: Philly
Originally Posted by miraclewhip
well good luck with everything i am extremely excited to know as to how quicker the 8 will be....i got a friend in the tranny business too so this is extremely possible.....ARE YOU CRYO TREATING THE R&P??????
The 4.778 rp that Rick sells are only polydynned, not that strong. These need to be cryo'd for the best insurance, not worth the experimentation. Maybe they do, or don't. Nobody knows.
Rick Hesel claims that 3 out of 20 of them failed, but he still sells them with a guarantee. Confusing or suspicious? Especially since these take a while to get.
The gear will harden/strengthen to about 4-10X the previous durability, depends on how strong it was b/f. I think that's enough, well into specs for FI.