cmr333

Ok all of you know about my project so i wont yak about that but im in need of some advice on my new fuel system. I just got my a1000 pump and im going to be running a sard fpr. I have a solution for the return plumbing but i need options for feed lines. I have a few ideas of what to do like, running a feed line to each side of the tank and sticking the hose into the factory sumps. or running one feed line to the fuelpump side and putting a t in the sump and hooking up a feed line to the other side inside the tank. then theres getting a bulkhead fitting from each side of the tank on the bottom of it, but its a plastic tank. or run a aux pump in the stock tank run that to a surge tank and so on . then the last option is just say screw the factory tank and get a 10 gal cell in the trunk. the only reason i havent made up my mind is the fear of running the pump dry or sucking air into the system. i have not ever used a external pump before so this setup is kinda new to me. and i dont want to mess up my nice new pump. the fuel level sending unit isnt that big of a deal right now but is a issue to tackle without using oem gauges. my last issue is a voltage regulator to keep the pump from running wide open all the time and over heating, aeromotive makes one but its 300$ i want a diy one. one last note....ive been told that the a1000 is submersable, is this true? aeromotive dose not make that very clear. lmk guys

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

funny you should ask--we GA rx 8 guys and Pettit guys have been thinking about the fuel delivery system because of track starvation issues.
So are you going with a return system? Why you going with an external pump? Pressures?
Are you going to run a cooler or not?
you can feed the drivers side by using a second pump as you have suggested on the passengers side feeding to the oem venturi and use the oem wiring harness so the safety features can stay intact, but are you running with that part of the harness intact?
The oem fuel system is capable of providing quite a bit of flow once you address filter issues
Fuel supply to the oem can is not a problem with a few slight mods--will not be any "dry" times.
running a 3/8 lines or staying with the 5/16?
Want I would do is
stay with the stock tanks--great for balance and wgt distribution
sard tank is great --but --where?
2nd pump to passenger side to feed the oem cup(keep your gas gauge yea! check with Dannobre--he has already done this
install external canister type fuel filter /regulator where you choose and run return line to the passenger side to mix with cool fuel.
use variation of an in tank pump --you can upgrade the stock--ours is easy to get too.
if you need to use a kene bell boost a pump to up available pump voltage as needed and if needed.
thats my thoughts

G3tR3DDY2GR3DDY

iTrader: (8)

he said sard FPR fuel pressure regulator not tank :P

cmr333

well aeromotive suggest a 10an line from tank to pump and a 8an line from the pump to the rail with a filter between..so let me just clear this up. you say to go with the stock tank and have an aux pump to transfer for side to side and run a pickup from the aeromotive to the stock sump? i am interested in these mods to the tank you talked about, also some more input on the voltage thing would be awesome...

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

How many h/p are you shooting for? 8 an line can carry a hell of a lot of gas.
some details:
yes-- a pump from passenger side to the oem cup(drivers side) search bmw fuel starvation issues on the net and search for dannobre's set up here on this forum as he has been running this for a little while--simple and easy. he used a oem rx8 pump for the aux pump also he has details of what he did all posted i believe.
are you going intank with the aeromotive or external? I understand it can be submerged. Doesnt that pump like to push better than pull especially for high pressure demand? Not sure myself.
if external then yes just strip the oem guts out of the cannister and run your own pickup--lots of different kinds out there. should be really easy to do.
with the aeromotive pump you shouldnt need any more voltage to increase pump capacity. But there are plenty of high h/p recep engines using a 255 pump bumped up with an increase in voltage(14-17) to tune to the need of the engine. The kenie Bell set up allows you to control the voltage to the pump so fuel pressures are never a problem. No it doesnt wear out the pump any faster either. Kenie bell "boost-a-pump"--look it up. You may recognize the name by kenie bell superchargers for mustangs and the likes. aeromotive makes one also--they just like theirs more
It has been my experience to keep fuel systems as simple as possible.
hope you are using a cannister type filter? the inlines are much to small for street use.
OD

cmr333

well im saying 8an because thats what aeromotive saysTO USE NO LESS THAN. and i was thinking of running the pickup through the top of the tank but its not a self priming pump with is why i was thinking of using a bulhead on the bottom of the sump on the bottom of the tank. as far as the voltage thing the pump puts out a ridiculous amount of pressure as is but it is said that the voltage needs to be tuned down for everyday use to not burn up the pump.. and for now i have a 10 micron in line filter untill i can find a good can at a decent price.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

got ya--that is one hell of a pump.
kenne bells system may be what you need then as it does give you that type of voltage control.
you going for over 400hp?
the rx8 fuel system supplies well at almost 400hp (at flywheel) now. It is easy to make it a return system--just needs the external filter etc.
I understand what you are saying. Bullhead is a good idea(you DONT want to lose prime) but a plastic tank would make that hard.
Keep a 1/4 tank and you could use a collapsible sump tank by ATL for even more insurance?
ead this--lots of good info:http://www.kennebell.net/accessories...boostapump.htm
If it was me(and I am just a crazy old man- I would keep the in tank pump, add the auxiliary to the passenger side, convert to your regulator and return system(emissions be damned!!!), added external fuel filter (trick flow per Summit racing about $75) and Kenne Bells voltage controller. Then sell the aeromotive one and buy tequila shots for all the girls around!!!
That would work well unless you are going for insane h/p levels. And if you are you wont need the tequila anyway!
OD

cmr333

well with the motor that im building now i am going to go a little crazy, Im looking for it to be stroked boosted to hell and back and maybe even a little bottle feeding action. i want somthing in the range of 425 to the wheels. I went with this pump mainly because of its flow capacity, as you said one hell of a pump. I think what im going to try and do is move the stock pump to the pass side to transfer from side to side and try to plumb into the stock sump with the a1000. the ways its looking i might have a custom fuel cell made in the future but to get me back on the road im willing to try anything that wont screw up all the money i have spent. as for shots for the ladies mine would kill me but for all the help i have received from this forum i will glady buy beers for all of you guys lol. btw what is a collapsible sump tank?

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

look here--its a drop in surge tank made by ATL (they make great fuel cells)
http://atlinc.com/US/racing.html
under stand being killed--it has happened to me several times.
at the level of performance you are going toward---really--look at the kenne bell controller--it has a playtell name--but it is a good set up---with a 255lph pump you can supply an 800hp engine(boosted) the voltage only increases according to need.
it is better to increase the smaller pumps output rather than use a bigger pump. especially if it is going to be street driven.
OD

cmr333

ok so after digging into the stock fuel delivery system yesterday heres what im thinking. drilling a hole into the bottom of the tank =bad idea. to much risk of somthing ripping it out. soooo Im going to do somthing kind of line rgonzas setup(feel free to chime in gonza). leave the pass side stock, take the stock pump out of the can and reinstall the carrier back in tank, run a bulkhead into the top of the carrier and have a 1/2" line going to the bottom of the can were i assume the stock pickup location is. i was told that with the a1000 not being a self priming pump that i would need a checkvalve at the end of my pickup tube so that the pump does not lose prime and suck air. the return line is going to be another bulkhead in place of the stock feed line after is cut out to dump fuel ontop of the canister to insure the canister is never dry. one of my questions is what to hook the venturi line from the other side of the tank? so does this sound like it would work?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Where are you going to mount the pump that you won't need suction to pickup fuel....I can't see you using that pump?? There is already a pickup problem with the in tank pump......

The fuel pressure regulator outflow needs to be routed to the venturi in the stock canister to get fuel from the passenger side.....

cmr333

so are you saying i cant use this pump with this tank? what wont work enlighten me please..

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

If you can't expect the pump to pull suction...how do you expect it to get fuel out of the tank? I would be very careful using a pump that isn't self priming if it isn't in the tank....maybe I'm just a worry wart...but I think I would stay with an in tank pump for simplicity...there are enough pickup problems already without creating new ones

Unless I misread what you said about the pump?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Just read up on the pump..they say it is submersible...might want to run it in the tank?? it won't have to pull fuel to as high a "head" height that way...

Should be lots of pump

cmr333

well it will pull suction theres no doubt about that and i have read that the pump is submersible but i am skeptical on doing that. the check valve was suggested to insure the pump wouldent lose prime thats why i was asking about it. would it be better to mount the pump in tank?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

The pump directions say that the pump needs to be mounted below the level of the fuel tank...........that to me means to expect it to pull up about 10" of head to get it out of the tank isn't the best solution. In tank will solve that problem...but create another...how to mount the pump so it doesn't move around???

Have you placed the FPR in the engine bay area?

I still think a pump mounted like the Stock pump in the can will work best in this tank.....

cmr333

i could mount it in the tank somehow im sure but its just going to suck if i have to gid rid of this pump because of the odd tank in this car. and yes im going to have a sard fpr under the hood. so are all the guys running external pumps having them fed by a in tank pump. ok so as im typing this i had a pphone call with an interesting offer. the guy im getting the fpr from also has a slightly used sard 265 lph intank pump that he thinks is the same size as a walbro.. would thid be better and just get rid of the a1000?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

It would be easier Don't know about better

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

that is what we are saying
--if you remove the oem pump assembly from the can there is a lot of room to mount a pump. Currently i am working on getting the oem filter out of the setup leaving the stock regualtor/venturi in place. all you need is the venturi--MUCH easier. you can just T it?
The aeromotive pump is a beast and you are going to be dumping a lot of fuel back to the tank--and the fuel will heat up.
I really dont know of anyone running an external pump other than the 20B guys--and they are well over 550hp.
And with the boost a pump(i know you are getting tired of me mentioning it) you can jack a 265 walbro well over 300 that comes on in an as need basis if you need the extra control.
This way you can also keep the oem feed line--less work and expense. the 5/16 line can feed well over 400hp with no probs.
OD

cmr333

OK so i pulled the stock pump canister apart this morning pulled rthe pump out and removed the filter sock, to my suprise this 265 lph sard pump is the exact same size as the stock pump. so i switched the sard pump into the carrier and put the whole thing back together just as it was but with a sard pump (the plug is even the same) so i should be good right? still using the stock feed line and using the return system i devised. my only questions now are is my fuel pressure going to be controlled by the regulator in the can or will i be ok using the sard fpr under the hood, and when i plug the stock fuel pump plug into the new pump will it work without the stcok ecu or am i gonna have to wire up some stuff?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

If it was me , I would bypass the stock FPR..and run a bulkhead fitting for the fuel line in the top of the lid....and use the OEM outlet for the return line...and plumb that to the venturi...nice and neat setup....

cmr333

I dont wana sound likr a tard but how would i bypass it? just take outlet line for the fpr and connect it to the bulkhead? and then?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Do you still have the OEM basket apart?

Look at how the piping is OEM...the outlet to the pump goes to the FPR with that corrugated looking line.......take your new pump outlet..and connect it to a bulkhead fitting out the top of the lid....and run it to the Sard FPR under the hood with your -8 / -10 line. run the return using the stock fuel line....and hook the outlet ( now inlet) to the venturi nipple in the stock system...

cmr333

ok well considering i have already plumbed a return line into the filler neck would i be better off doing away with that? but basicly just switch the lines on the canister?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

You need the return line to run the venturi driven transfer pump...or you won't have access to 1/4+ of the gas in the tank ...it needs to return to the OEM canister.

So running it to the filler neck won't work