Customer Report on the Rotary Extreme Intake
01-20-2004, 11:52 PM
#76
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Originally posted by SDFLY
Where did everyone go? New dynos anyone?
Where did everyone go? New dynos anyone?
Regards,
Gordon
01-21-2004, 12:57 PM
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PoMan Ferrari already did the dyno and sent me the dynosheets. The best HP gain is about the same as the one I posted. He hasn't posted them maybe because he is busy and posting the reulst is not his duty?
Omicron also tested out the intake but before he was able to change the set up to stock air box, the oil line was leaking oil so he had to stop there. He has mentioned that he had to wait until the new oil line comes in before he can do another dyno run.
If you want fast result, you can donate $200-$250 to anyone who is going to volunteer to test the intake. I am pretty sure someone is going to take your offer right away. But if you want something for free, you better be patient and stop demanding. People have other things to do. It's not like they are getting paid by you doing this.
Your logic is funny. If the intake makes no power. what prevents them from mentioning it on the board? Being embarassed for what? If people were all emabarrassed when they found out the RX8 didn't make the advertised power, why is it all over this board?
Chuck Huang
Omicron also tested out the intake but before he was able to change the set up to stock air box, the oil line was leaking oil so he had to stop there. He has mentioned that he had to wait until the new oil line comes in before he can do another dyno run.
If you want fast result, you can donate $200-$250 to anyone who is going to volunteer to test the intake. I am pretty sure someone is going to take your offer right away. But if you want something for free, you better be patient and stop demanding. People have other things to do. It's not like they are getting paid by you doing this.
Your logic is funny. If the intake makes no power. what prevents them from mentioning it on the board? Being embarassed for what? If people were all emabarrassed when they found out the RX8 didn't make the advertised power, why is it all over this board?
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Hmmm... either everybody really loves the sound, and doesn't care about the power; or they've hit the dynos and found no additional power and are embarrassed to admit it...
Regards,
Gordon
Hmmm... either everybody really loves the sound, and doesn't care about the power; or they've hit the dynos and found no additional power and are embarrassed to admit it...
Regards,
Gordon
01-21-2004, 02:05 PM
#78
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Originally posted by Rotary Extreme
PoMan Ferrari already did the dyno and sent me the dynosheets. The best HP gain is about the same as the one I posted. He hasn't posted them maybe because he is busy and posting the reulst is not his duty?
If you want fast result... But if you want something for free, you better be patient and stop demanding. People have other things to do. It's not like they are getting paid by you doing this.
Your logic is funny. If the intake makes no power. what prevents them from mentioning it on the board? Being embarassed for what? If people were all emabarrassed when they found out the RX8 didn't make the advertised power, why is it all over this board?
PoMan Ferrari already did the dyno and sent me the dynosheets. The best HP gain is about the same as the one I posted. He hasn't posted them maybe because he is busy and posting the reulst is not his duty?
If you want fast result... But if you want something for free, you better be patient and stop demanding. People have other things to do. It's not like they are getting paid by you doing this.
Your logic is funny. If the intake makes no power. what prevents them from mentioning it on the board? Being embarassed for what? If people were all emabarrassed when they found out the RX8 didn't make the advertised power, why is it all over this board?
PoMan Ferrari volunteered to post the results here. Not duty, he offered. SDFLY was just curious as to the status of his results, that's all. I don't see anybody demanding results, certainly not me. This is a community of auto enthusiasts, however, and like all auto enthusiast communities, we benefit by sharing knowledge, facts, and data with respect to modifications and improvements. We share the results for that reason, not because someone pays us or demands it.
"Being embarrassed for what?" It's pretty common - people spend big bucks for a power-improving mod that doesn't turn out to improve the power at all. They are embarrassed because they got ripped off, and that's why they keep it quiet or play up the other aspects of the mod - "it sounds great". I'm not suggesting or insinuating that this is the case with your intake, and that's why I put the wink smilie after that - but it certainly does happen.
The only way that an enthusiast community for a specific marque or model develops a history and feel for which mods are worthwhile and which mods are less effective is by independently testing and verifying those mods, and sharing the results. The RX-8 community is young, but so far we are not seeing those independent tests being done much at all. To date, for the various intakes and exhausts, it's mostly posts about how they sound great. Once the real tests start getting posted, then the different mods and solutions from the vendors will start gaining more credibility. Right now, I am sceptical of everything and waiting patiently for the proof!
Regards,
Gordon
01-21-2004, 02:22 PM
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My post is directing toward you and no one else. Only you make all those assumptions and I am simply tired of seeing it.
Poman Ferrari volunteered but that does not mean he has the obligation to post the result right away for whatever reason. He is going to do some flow bench testing on both intake since he has the source for that.
You make it sound nice that people should share knowledge when other people spend the money to do the dyno and you just sit there getting result. Why isn't it the other way around? You spend the money to buy the parts and do the dyno so you can share with others? So if you want other people to share stuff with you for free, be patient.
$250 for an intake vs $30,000+ for the rx8. I guess buying the RX8 is a even bigger embarrassement according to your logic that everyone should keep it hush hush on the HP issue.
Trust me, if you buy a piece of crap, you will let everyone know about it. On the contrary, if you buy something that really works, 50% of the people won't even mention it. It's a known fact. If you went to business school, it should be in your text book.
You are certainly not skeptical toward the performance parts coming from your motherland. Double standard?
Chuck Huang
Poman Ferrari volunteered but that does not mean he has the obligation to post the result right away for whatever reason. He is going to do some flow bench testing on both intake since he has the source for that.
You make it sound nice that people should share knowledge when other people spend the money to do the dyno and you just sit there getting result. Why isn't it the other way around? You spend the money to buy the parts and do the dyno so you can share with others? So if you want other people to share stuff with you for free, be patient.
$250 for an intake vs $30,000+ for the rx8. I guess buying the RX8 is a even bigger embarrassement according to your logic that everyone should keep it hush hush on the HP issue.
Trust me, if you buy a piece of crap, you will let everyone know about it. On the contrary, if you buy something that really works, 50% of the people won't even mention it. It's a known fact. If you went to business school, it should be in your text book.
You are certainly not skeptical toward the performance parts coming from your motherland. Double standard?
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Since you quoted me, I guess I'll respond, but I'm not sure your reply was directed to me...
PoMan Ferrari volunteered to post the results here. Not duty, he offered. SDFLY was just curious as to the status of his results, that's all. I don't see anybody demanding results, certainly not me. This is a community of auto enthusiasts, however, and like all auto enthusiast communities, we benefit by sharing knowledge, facts, and data with respect to modifications and improvements. We share the results for that reason, not because someone pays us or demands it.
"Being embarrassed for what?" It's pretty common - people spend big bucks for a power-improving mod that doesn't turn out to improve the power at all. They are embarrassed because they got ripped off, and that's why they keep it quiet or play up the other aspects of the mod - "it sounds great". I'm not suggesting or insinuating that this is the case with your intake, and that's why I put the wink smilie after that - but it certainly does happen.
The only way that an enthusiast community for a specific marque or model develops a history and feel for which mods are worthwhile and which mods are less effective is by independently testing and verifying those mods, and sharing the results. The RX-8 community is young, but so far we are not seeing those independent tests being done much at all. To date, for the various intakes and exhausts, it's mostly posts about how they sound great. Once the real tests start getting posted, then the different mods and solutions from the vendors will start gaining more credibility. Right now, I am sceptical of everything and waiting patiently for the proof!
Regards,
Gordon
Since you quoted me, I guess I'll respond, but I'm not sure your reply was directed to me...
PoMan Ferrari volunteered to post the results here. Not duty, he offered. SDFLY was just curious as to the status of his results, that's all. I don't see anybody demanding results, certainly not me. This is a community of auto enthusiasts, however, and like all auto enthusiast communities, we benefit by sharing knowledge, facts, and data with respect to modifications and improvements. We share the results for that reason, not because someone pays us or demands it.
"Being embarrassed for what?" It's pretty common - people spend big bucks for a power-improving mod that doesn't turn out to improve the power at all. They are embarrassed because they got ripped off, and that's why they keep it quiet or play up the other aspects of the mod - "it sounds great". I'm not suggesting or insinuating that this is the case with your intake, and that's why I put the wink smilie after that - but it certainly does happen.
The only way that an enthusiast community for a specific marque or model develops a history and feel for which mods are worthwhile and which mods are less effective is by independently testing and verifying those mods, and sharing the results. The RX-8 community is young, but so far we are not seeing those independent tests being done much at all. To date, for the various intakes and exhausts, it's mostly posts about how they sound great. Once the real tests start getting posted, then the different mods and solutions from the vendors will start gaining more credibility. Right now, I am sceptical of everything and waiting patiently for the proof!
Regards,
Gordon
01-21-2004, 02:46 PM
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Chuck,
You make what appears to be great stuff -- I will likely purchase your intake when it warms up a bit here in the frozen heartland.
That said ... you don't help yourself with your attitude and demeanor here on the forum. Your blunt, assertive, straight forward style is undoubtedly a strength in terms of product engineering, etc. but it creates a highly negative impression here in the online community where word choice and demeanor are essential to communication. People respect your products -- there is no need to get defensive and then attack when criticism enters the conversation.
Just a friendly bit of advice and I will waive my normal fees
You make what appears to be great stuff -- I will likely purchase your intake when it warms up a bit here in the frozen heartland.
That said ... you don't help yourself with your attitude and demeanor here on the forum. Your blunt, assertive, straight forward style is undoubtedly a strength in terms of product engineering, etc. but it creates a highly negative impression here in the online community where word choice and demeanor are essential to communication. People respect your products -- there is no need to get defensive and then attack when criticism enters the conversation.
Just a friendly bit of advice and I will waive my normal fees
01-21-2004, 03:58 PM
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I guess you have missed all other posts posted by Gordan.
When someone constantly gives out false assumption on your product you are selling, you can only endure for so long. To be honest with you, I am very tired of it.
Like I said, my post was only directing to Gordan, who seems to have an agenda. I don't see him posting anything like this toward other manufacturers. I do not see his demands toward any other manufacturers.
If a criticism is valid and constructive, it's well taken. If it's based on someone's imagination, it won't be welcome.
In Gordan's case, there is no means of communication. I don't think he is trying to establish one. There are 2-3 long threads regarding the intake. Read them and you will understand why.
Thanks for your concern.
Chuck Huang
When someone constantly gives out false assumption on your product you are selling, you can only endure for so long. To be honest with you, I am very tired of it.
Like I said, my post was only directing to Gordan, who seems to have an agenda. I don't see him posting anything like this toward other manufacturers. I do not see his demands toward any other manufacturers.
If a criticism is valid and constructive, it's well taken. If it's based on someone's imagination, it won't be welcome.
In Gordan's case, there is no means of communication. I don't think he is trying to establish one. There are 2-3 long threads regarding the intake. Read them and you will understand why.
Thanks for your concern.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by RXhusker
Chuck,
You make what appears to be great stuff -- I will likely purchase your intake when it warms up a bit here in the frozen heartland.
That said ... you don't help yourself with your attitude and demeanor here on the forum. Your blunt, assertive, straight forward style is undoubtedly a strength in terms of product engineering, etc. but it creates a highly negative impression here in the online community where word choice and demeanor are essential to communication. People respect your products -- there is no need to get defensive and then attack when criticism enters the conversation.
Just a friendly bit of advice and I will waive my normal fees
Chuck,
You make what appears to be great stuff -- I will likely purchase your intake when it warms up a bit here in the frozen heartland.
That said ... you don't help yourself with your attitude and demeanor here on the forum. Your blunt, assertive, straight forward style is undoubtedly a strength in terms of product engineering, etc. but it creates a highly negative impression here in the online community where word choice and demeanor are essential to communication. People respect your products -- there is no need to get defensive and then attack when criticism enters the conversation.
Just a friendly bit of advice and I will waive my normal fees
01-21-2004, 05:22 PM
#82
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Originally posted by Rotary Extreme
I guess you have missed all other posts posted by Gordan.
When someone constantly gives out false assumption on your product you are selling, you can only endure for so long. To be honest with you, I am very tired of it.
Like I said, my post was only directing to Gordan, who seems to have an agenda. I don't see him posting anything like this toward other manufacturers. I do not see his demands toward any other manufacturers.
If a criticism is valid and constructive, it's well taken. If it's based on someone's imagination, it won't be welcome.
In Gordan's case, there is no means of communication. I don't think he is trying to establish one. There are 2-3 long threads regarding the intake. Read them and you will understand why.
Thanks for your concern.
Chuck Huang
I guess you have missed all other posts posted by Gordan.
When someone constantly gives out false assumption on your product you are selling, you can only endure for so long. To be honest with you, I am very tired of it.
Like I said, my post was only directing to Gordan, who seems to have an agenda. I don't see him posting anything like this toward other manufacturers. I do not see his demands toward any other manufacturers.
If a criticism is valid and constructive, it's well taken. If it's based on someone's imagination, it won't be welcome.
In Gordan's case, there is no means of communication. I don't think he is trying to establish one. There are 2-3 long threads regarding the intake. Read them and you will understand why.
Thanks for your concern.
Chuck Huang
You don't see me posting anything similar about other vendors? For what it's worth, K&N should be taking much more offense at my posts than you, since I specifically slam their filter products. I've said absolutely nothing negative about your product, other than to suggest that validation of your HP claims lies with independent dyno testing. I am very interested to see those independent tests, because I see other respected tuners suggest that there is not as much power in an aftermarket RX-8 intake as you seem to have found. I'm not demanding anything, I'm waiting very patiently for independent results to start trickling in, for comparison tests to be conducted. I'm a mechanical engineer - I don't have an imagination when it comes to this stuff, it's standard engineering practices for evaluation!!! I'm certainly not picking on your intake mod - I've suggested the same to buyers of other intakes and also exhaust systems.
I'm not in the market now for an ECU mod, but I appreciate the openness of information disclosure that Canzoomer has had throughout his development process. He's documented step by step his test results through the entire process, explained what he was finding, and how he found it. He's also the first person to try to understand and share the secrets of dyno testing the RX-8. Some vendors, including yourself, are much more secretive about how their products make more power than the stock items they replace. That's fine, because I understand you need to protect the design from being poached, but at the same time there's only your word so far that it makes the power improvement you claim. You dyno tested your improvements, but provided no detail on how you overcame the inherent problems of dyno testing the RX-8. Canzoomer has sent test units of his ECU mod to Australia, the US, and UK, for people who have promised to test and document their results. Trust in the information/claims provided by the various vendors is based, in part, on the amount of background information and detail they share about their development and test processes. Also, if you look at the cost/hp of the various mods on the market so far, you'd find that the Canzoomer mod offers by far and away the best bang for the buck - so far, nobody else can offer 20 hp (claimed) for $500 (nor for the new price, $750).
I suspect you took more offense towards me when I posted my opinion in a bodykits thread that I felt urethane kits were superior/preferable to fiberglass kits and were worth a slight price premium. That's not a very controversial or rare opinion, I've read that all over the place as well. I'm not in the market for a bodykit either, so it's strictly based on the merits of each from an engineering standpoint (cost/benefit analysis and all that).
No means of communication? Isn't that what we're doing right here? I'm encouraging people to test and share their results for any and all power-enhancing aftermarket improvements. I'm reading many of the posts about these, especially the technical details and descriptions of how they achieve their power improvements. That's communication! Nobody has to do the testing for me as you suggest - if I ever do purchase an intake, exhaust, ECU mod, you can rest assured that I will have before/after dyno runs for my own satisfaction that I've received quantified value for my money - you won't see any "it sounds great, and my butt dyno tells me it's quicker" posts! By the time I might be interested in purchasing an intake, though, be assured that I'd be fully open to purchasing your product as much as any of your competitors (well, except K&N
), to be evaluated at that time on all information available.Sorry, Chuck, I''ve no agenda other than seeing this RX-8 community work together to get a good database of great products. I've seen it happen and participated in it with the Miata community, where any and every power mod has been subjected to many independent dyno runs, and there are no shortage of people willing to test. Sure, the Miata community is more mature at this point, but there's no harm in encouraging the RX-8 community along the same path, is there?
Regards,
Gordon
01-21-2004, 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by Rotary Extreme ...Omicron also tested out the intake but before he was able to change the set up to stock air box, the oil line was leaking oil so he had to stop there. He has mentioned that he had to wait until the new oil line comes in before he can do another dyno run.
01-22-2004, 02:01 PM
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Yo Chuck, over here...I think this is the guy you were aiming at!
:D
(sorry Vince)
:D
(sorry Vince)
Originally posted by compaddict
Very well put Gordon.
Hucksters and thieves are afraid of the truth and defend the lies they make viciously to protect easy profits.
Vince
Very well put Gordon.
Hucksters and thieves are afraid of the truth and defend the lies they make viciously to protect easy profits.
Vince
01-22-2004, 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by compaddict
Very well put Gordon.
Hucksters and thieves are afraid of the truth and defend the lies they make viciously to protect easy profits.
Vince
Very well put Gordon.
Hucksters and thieves are afraid of the truth and defend the lies they make viciously to protect easy profits.
Vince
01-22-2004, 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by rotarygod
You know Vince I don't have a problem with you as a member of this forum except when it comes to this thread. You are "usually" quite insightful and intelligent so why all the Chuck bashing? You go out of your way to be an *** to him and people that support him and I just don't get it. There isn't a single company out there that has to show anybody anything in terms of development. I'd love to see what new secret ideas the air foce has working right now but they probably won't tell me. If the product is proven to work then great. If it doesn't work good then fine. You know the results will get posted here. No one should expect a big or even feelable gain just by slapping anybody's intake on. Just because you can't feel it doesn't mean there isn't a gain though. Typically it takes 10% more power to be noticable and I know this isn't going to give that. However if you combine a few % here from one thing and a few % there from another a feelable worthshile gain may appear. Some things are greater than the sum of their parts. Going out of your way to insult people just doesn't get you anywhere and it really makes you look bad. The people that try something regardless of if it works good or not aren't the people that look stupid. At least they tried. It is easy to criticize others but that still doesn't make it right. Since we are fond of quoting others here: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all!" If Chuck gets proven wrong we won't need you to tell us so.
You know Vince I don't have a problem with you as a member of this forum except when it comes to this thread. You are "usually" quite insightful and intelligent so why all the Chuck bashing? You go out of your way to be an *** to him and people that support him and I just don't get it. There isn't a single company out there that has to show anybody anything in terms of development. I'd love to see what new secret ideas the air foce has working right now but they probably won't tell me. If the product is proven to work then great. If it doesn't work good then fine. You know the results will get posted here. No one should expect a big or even feelable gain just by slapping anybody's intake on. Just because you can't feel it doesn't mean there isn't a gain though. Typically it takes 10% more power to be noticable and I know this isn't going to give that. However if you combine a few % here from one thing and a few % there from another a feelable worthshile gain may appear. Some things are greater than the sum of their parts. Going out of your way to insult people just doesn't get you anywhere and it really makes you look bad. The people that try something regardless of if it works good or not aren't the people that look stupid. At least they tried. It is easy to criticize others but that still doesn't make it right. Since we are fond of quoting others here: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all!" If Chuck gets proven wrong we won't need you to tell us so.
One more thing, I feel that this forum is a trusted place and that any claim made here is subject to intense scrutiny by the members that make up this forum. I feel that If someone wants to sell things to us here they need to stand up to the plate.
Vince
01-22-2004, 03:33 PM
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Stand up to the plate by letting you call them thieves? Any way I look at it, it's an insult and a personal attack.
Results are coming from independent testers. You seem to be extremely patient with the Canzoomer's result. Why can't you be patient here?
Chuck Huang
Results are coming from independent testers. You seem to be extremely patient with the Canzoomer's result. Why can't you be patient here?
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by compaddict
I didn't mention any one person and I am trying not to attack anyone. It's really just my opinion of add on intake systems in general and the methods used to sell them.
One more thing, I feel that this forum is a trusted place and that any claim made here is subject to intense scrutiny by the members that make up this forum. I feel that If someone wants to sell things to us here they need to stand up to the plate.
Vince
I didn't mention any one person and I am trying not to attack anyone. It's really just my opinion of add on intake systems in general and the methods used to sell them.
One more thing, I feel that this forum is a trusted place and that any claim made here is subject to intense scrutiny by the members that make up this forum. I feel that If someone wants to sell things to us here they need to stand up to the plate.
Vince
01-22-2004, 03:58 PM
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I understand you want to see results but your speculation on why the result hasn't been posted is misleading.
I don't know why you think I am all secretive. What's so secretive about this intake? What do you need to know? Just tell me and I will post here.
On the dyno, we just strap down the car and then dyno it. If you look at the dyno sheet, you will see we dyno the stock intake first. If there is any limp mode, the first run will actually make more power. We run the car in 4th gear. We swap the intake on the dyno and then dyno the car with the Rotary Extreme intake. Canzoomer did the dyno with his own method and the result from the stock set up is actually worse the most people's result. His dynosheet already indicates the numbers are SAE corrected. So why the result is worse than normal, I don't know and I am not going to comment.
This has nothing to do your comment on the bodykit. If there is, I will post on that thread, not here. And for your info, the original Mazdaspeed boydkit is made of ABS plastic, not urethane. Urethane and ABS plastic are two different things.
Communication and speculation without basis are two different things. I have no problem with people asking for result but when you try to come up with some answers without any basis, I have a problem with that. Your comment on why I am defensive simply because of your bodykit comment on another thread is the same kind of speculation without basis.
Maybe you can go to the rx7 forum and do a search on our company. You will find we don't sell or make BS products and customers with our performance parts are extremely happy with their purchases.
Chuck Huang
I don't know why you think I am all secretive. What's so secretive about this intake? What do you need to know? Just tell me and I will post here.
On the dyno, we just strap down the car and then dyno it. If you look at the dyno sheet, you will see we dyno the stock intake first. If there is any limp mode, the first run will actually make more power. We run the car in 4th gear. We swap the intake on the dyno and then dyno the car with the Rotary Extreme intake. Canzoomer did the dyno with his own method and the result from the stock set up is actually worse the most people's result. His dynosheet already indicates the numbers are SAE corrected. So why the result is worse than normal, I don't know and I am not going to comment.
This has nothing to do your comment on the bodykit. If there is, I will post on that thread, not here. And for your info, the original Mazdaspeed boydkit is made of ABS plastic, not urethane. Urethane and ABS plastic are two different things.
Communication and speculation without basis are two different things. I have no problem with people asking for result but when you try to come up with some answers without any basis, I have a problem with that. Your comment on why I am defensive simply because of your bodykit comment on another thread is the same kind of speculation without basis.
Maybe you can go to the rx7 forum and do a search on our company. You will find we don't sell or make BS products and customers with our performance parts are extremely happy with their purchases.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Chuck, I think you are confusing me with Vince (by the way, it's Gordon, not Gordan). I have no agenda - I'm not demanding dyno results as you suggest several times here. I'm not in the market for an intake system anytime soon (at least 12 months away at the earliest), so the merits of your product vs. anyone elses are of strictly academic interest to me.
You don't see me posting anything similar about other vendors? For what it's worth, K&N should be taking much more offense at my posts than you, since I specifically slam their filter products. I've said absolutely nothing negative about your product, other than to suggest that validation of your HP claims lies with independent dyno testing. I am very interested to see those independent tests, because I see other respected tuners suggest that there is not as much power in an aftermarket RX-8 intake as you seem to have found. I'm not demanding anything, I'm waiting very patiently for independent results to start trickling in, for comparison tests to be conducted. I'm a mechanical engineer - I don't have an imagination when it comes to this stuff, it's standard engineering practices for evaluation!!! I'm certainly not picking on your intake mod - I've suggested the same to buyers of other intakes and also exhaust systems.
I'm not in the market now for an ECU mod, but I appreciate the openness of information disclosure that Canzoomer has had throughout his development process. He's documented step by step his test results through the entire process, explained what he was finding, and how he found it. He's also the first person to try to understand and share the secrets of dyno testing the RX-8. Some vendors, including yourself, are much more secretive about how their products make more power than the stock items they replace. That's fine, because I understand you need to protect the design from being poached, but at the same time there's only your word so far that it makes the power improvement you claim. You dyno tested your improvements, but provided no detail on how you overcame the inherent problems of dyno testing the RX-8. Canzoomer has sent test units of his ECU mod to Australia, the US, and UK, for people who have promised to test and document their results. Trust in the information/claims provided by the various vendors is based, in part, on the amount of background information and detail they share about their development and test processes. Also, if you look at the cost/hp of the various mods on the market so far, you'd find that the Canzoomer mod offers by far and away the best bang for the buck - so far, nobody else can offer 20 hp (claimed) for $500 (nor for the new price, $750).
I suspect you took more offense towards me when I posted my opinion in a bodykits thread that I felt urethane kits were superior/preferable to fiberglass kits and were worth a slight price premium. That's not a very controversial or rare opinion, I've read that all over the place as well. I'm not in the market for a bodykit either, so it's strictly based on the merits of each from an engineering standpoint (cost/benefit analysis and all that).
No means of communication? Isn't that what we're doing right here? I'm encouraging people to test and share their results for any and all power-enhancing aftermarket improvements. I'm reading many of the posts about these, especially the technical details and descriptions of how they achieve their power improvements. That's communication! Nobody has to do the testing for me as you suggest - if I ever do purchase an intake, exhaust, ECU mod, you can rest assured that I will have before/after dyno runs for my own satisfaction that I've received quantified value for my money - you won't see any "it sounds great, and my butt dyno tells me it's quicker" posts! By the time I might be interested in purchasing an intake, though, be assured that I'd be fully open to purchasing your product as much as any of your competitors (well, except K&N ), to be evaluated at that time on all information available.
Sorry, Chuck, I''ve no agenda other than seeing this RX-8 community work together to get a good database of great products. I've seen it happen and participated in it with the Miata community, where any and every power mod has been subjected to many independent dyno runs, and there are no shortage of people willing to test. Sure, the Miata community is more mature at this point, but there's no harm in encouraging the RX-8 community along the same path, is there?
Regards,
Gordon
Chuck, I think you are confusing me with Vince (by the way, it's Gordon, not Gordan). I have no agenda - I'm not demanding dyno results as you suggest several times here. I'm not in the market for an intake system anytime soon (at least 12 months away at the earliest), so the merits of your product vs. anyone elses are of strictly academic interest to me.
You don't see me posting anything similar about other vendors? For what it's worth, K&N should be taking much more offense at my posts than you, since I specifically slam their filter products. I've said absolutely nothing negative about your product, other than to suggest that validation of your HP claims lies with independent dyno testing. I am very interested to see those independent tests, because I see other respected tuners suggest that there is not as much power in an aftermarket RX-8 intake as you seem to have found. I'm not demanding anything, I'm waiting very patiently for independent results to start trickling in, for comparison tests to be conducted. I'm a mechanical engineer - I don't have an imagination when it comes to this stuff, it's standard engineering practices for evaluation!!! I'm certainly not picking on your intake mod - I've suggested the same to buyers of other intakes and also exhaust systems.
I'm not in the market now for an ECU mod, but I appreciate the openness of information disclosure that Canzoomer has had throughout his development process. He's documented step by step his test results through the entire process, explained what he was finding, and how he found it. He's also the first person to try to understand and share the secrets of dyno testing the RX-8. Some vendors, including yourself, are much more secretive about how their products make more power than the stock items they replace. That's fine, because I understand you need to protect the design from being poached, but at the same time there's only your word so far that it makes the power improvement you claim. You dyno tested your improvements, but provided no detail on how you overcame the inherent problems of dyno testing the RX-8. Canzoomer has sent test units of his ECU mod to Australia, the US, and UK, for people who have promised to test and document their results. Trust in the information/claims provided by the various vendors is based, in part, on the amount of background information and detail they share about their development and test processes. Also, if you look at the cost/hp of the various mods on the market so far, you'd find that the Canzoomer mod offers by far and away the best bang for the buck - so far, nobody else can offer 20 hp (claimed) for $500 (nor for the new price, $750).
I suspect you took more offense towards me when I posted my opinion in a bodykits thread that I felt urethane kits were superior/preferable to fiberglass kits and were worth a slight price premium. That's not a very controversial or rare opinion, I've read that all over the place as well. I'm not in the market for a bodykit either, so it's strictly based on the merits of each from an engineering standpoint (cost/benefit analysis and all that).
No means of communication? Isn't that what we're doing right here? I'm encouraging people to test and share their results for any and all power-enhancing aftermarket improvements. I'm reading many of the posts about these, especially the technical details and descriptions of how they achieve their power improvements. That's communication! Nobody has to do the testing for me as you suggest - if I ever do purchase an intake, exhaust, ECU mod, you can rest assured that I will have before/after dyno runs for my own satisfaction that I've received quantified value for my money - you won't see any "it sounds great, and my butt dyno tells me it's quicker" posts! By the time I might be interested in purchasing an intake, though, be assured that I'd be fully open to purchasing your product as much as any of your competitors (well, except K&N
), to be evaluated at that time on all information available.Sorry, Chuck, I''ve no agenda other than seeing this RX-8 community work together to get a good database of great products. I've seen it happen and participated in it with the Miata community, where any and every power mod has been subjected to many independent dyno runs, and there are no shortage of people willing to test. Sure, the Miata community is more mature at this point, but there's no harm in encouraging the RX-8 community along the same path, is there?
Regards,
Gordon
01-22-2004, 04:11 PM
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dyno result from independent tester
All the results are provided by PoMan Ferrari.
Downlaod the attachement.
Run 2 is stock air box
Run 4 is stock air box without the filter in place
Downlaod the attachement.
Run 2 is stock air box
Run 4 is stock air box without the filter in place
Last edited by Rotary Extreme; 01-22-2004 at 04:21 PM.
01-22-2004, 04:20 PM
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run 12 is with the Rotary Extreme intake with the back heatshield but without the top cover
run 13 is with the Rotary Extreme intake with the back heat shield and top cover
run 14 is with the Rotary Extreme intake with the back heat shield and top cover
The top cover seems to serve as a restriction on the dyno. The same result was indicated by Omicron. When the car is actually moving, the moving air should overcome that.
When we did our dyno runs, the top cover was not installed and result was similar with Poman Ferrari's.
Chuck Huang
run 13 is with the Rotary Extreme intake with the back heat shield and top cover
run 14 is with the Rotary Extreme intake with the back heat shield and top cover
The top cover seems to serve as a restriction on the dyno. The same result was indicated by Omicron. When the car is actually moving, the moving air should overcome that.
When we did our dyno runs, the top cover was not installed and result was similar with Poman Ferrari's.
Chuck Huang
01-22-2004, 04:23 PM
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Run 15 is stock air box with an aftermarket cat-back exhaust which I don't want to name.
Run 17 is rotary extreme intake with the same aftermarket cat-back exhaust
Chuck Huang
Run 17 is rotary extreme intake with the same aftermarket cat-back exhaust
Chuck Huang
01-22-2004, 04:27 PM
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If you want more result from independent testers, please be patient when Omicron's car is back on the road.
Poman Ferrari is also going to flow bench testing both the stock intake and the Rotary Extreme intake so we will have some real numbers. I hope everyone will be happy and we can put this to an end.
Chuck Huang
Poman Ferrari is also going to flow bench testing both the stock intake and the Rotary Extreme intake so we will have some real numbers. I hope everyone will be happy and we can put this to an end.
Chuck Huang
01-22-2004, 05:05 PM
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Questions: are run 2, 4, 12, 13, and 14 with the aftermarket exhaust too? And, is run 17 with the rotary extreme intake heat shield cover open?
Last edited by donald121; 01-22-2004 at 05:11 PM.
01-22-2004, 05:23 PM
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Run 2, 4, 12, 13, 14 are with stock exhaust.
Poman Ferrari didn't say anything about taking off the top cover for run 17. He is extremely busy now. I have a hard time getting hold of him. When I do get a hold of him, I will ask him about the run 17.
Chuck Huang
Poman Ferrari didn't say anything about taking off the top cover for run 17. He is extremely busy now. I have a hard time getting hold of him. When I do get a hold of him, I will ask him about the run 17.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by donald121
Questions: are run 2, 4, 12, 13, and 14 with the aftermarket exhaust too? And, is run 17 with the rotary extreme intake heat shield cover open?
Questions: are run 2, 4, 12, 13, and 14 with the aftermarket exhaust too? And, is run 17 with the rotary extreme intake heat shield cover open?
01-22-2004, 05:49 PM
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Thanks. 
BTW, there will be a base model 238 HP rx8 coming in so we can dyno test the intake on that car. That car has no DSC so maybe we can get more accurate result without worrying about DSC triggering the limp mode if there is one. We will dyno test the Rotary Extreme cat-back exhaust on that car as well.
Chuck Huang
BTW, there will be a base model 238 HP rx8 coming in so we can dyno test the intake on that car. That car has no DSC so maybe we can get more accurate result without worrying about DSC triggering the limp mode if there is one. We will dyno test the Rotary Extreme cat-back exhaust on that car as well.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by rotarygod
Looks good to me Chuck!
Looks good to me Chuck!
01-22-2004, 08:26 PM
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Want free dyno money?
To make this whole thing more fun, I have the following offer. If you have a Rotary Extreme intake and you are able to put your car on the dyno to get some result, I will give you $50 toward your dyno run or $100 credit if you purchase anything that's retailed for $500+ from our website.
If you don't have a Rotary Extreme intake to dyno but you have some other performance products that you want to dyno, no free dyno money but if you can provide the dyno result for that product, you will receive $100 credit if you purchase anything that's retailed for $500+ from our website.
Only 10 spots will be available. Customers with rotary extreme intakes will have the priority.
Please email rotaryextreme@aol.com for details. Thank you.
Chuck Huang
http://www.rotaryextreme.com
If you don't have a Rotary Extreme intake to dyno but you have some other performance products that you want to dyno, no free dyno money but if you can provide the dyno result for that product, you will receive $100 credit if you purchase anything that's retailed for $500+ from our website.
Only 10 spots will be available. Customers with rotary extreme intakes will have the priority.
Please email rotaryextreme@aol.com for details. Thank you.
Chuck Huang
http://www.rotaryextreme.com
Last edited by Rotary Extreme; 01-22-2004 at 08:28 PM.