Electronic Super/turbocharge innovation
11-19-2006 | 04:58 AM
#1
Thread Starter
RX8 newbie!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,362
Likes: 0
Electronic Super/turbocharge innovation
recently i had been reading a lot of supercharging on Z3. and i found that a new type of electronic charge is being research.
the theory is:
Electronic Fan force air ---> air intake & manifold ---> Engine ---> manifold ---> midpipe--->exhaust---> Extracting Fan.
in this process it increase the speed of a normal engine process rather than force air increase the air into the engine only. its not a turbo cause it doesn't recycle air from exhaust. it need tuning but it will also theoritically eat up fuel like no one's business.
anyone hear this before? i heard the new Lexus LF-A is using this system.
the theory is:
Electronic Fan force air ---> air intake & manifold ---> Engine ---> manifold ---> midpipe--->exhaust---> Extracting Fan.
in this process it increase the speed of a normal engine process rather than force air increase the air into the engine only. its not a turbo cause it doesn't recycle air from exhaust. it need tuning but it will also theoritically eat up fuel like no one's business.
anyone hear this before? i heard the new Lexus LF-A is using this system.
Puleease.....
11-19-2006 | 09:44 AM
#6
Goat rider
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 587
Likes: 0
Are you talking about the fans you can buy for dirt cheap from a boat store? They are used to vent the fumes out of a boat (with an inboard motor). Other wise if you try to start the boat you will blow it up.
People were getting rich buying them for 24$ and selling them for 120$ as a E-turbo.
It's a fan, not a compressor.
People were getting rich buying them for 24$ and selling them for 120$ as a E-turbo.
It's a fan, not a compressor.
11-19-2006 | 11:17 AM
#9
Need'd a Turbo
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,328
Likes: 0
I have never heard of the lf-a using that because lexus engineers know better. Its just a fan and not a compressor. Why would the lf-a need that to make 500 hp. It has a high revving v-10, perfectly capable of 500hp without alternate induction stuff.
11-20-2006 | 01:48 PM
#10
Senor Carnegrande
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 871
Likes: 0
There is actually a company out there producing electric superchargers. They aren't super cheap though. Maybe they would make sense if you were building a hybrid and already had a nice big battery pack onboard.
11-20-2006 | 01:59 PM
#11
You can't "blow" more air into an engine without an increase in pressure. I don't think that even has a sound basis in theory. You can run a supercharger off an electric motor, but if you look at the overall efficiency of it, it's probably less efficient than being belt driven.
similar discussion in the NE region forum from last week: https://www.rx8club.com/ne-rx-8-forum-29/rx8-supercharger-%3D-%24350-00-a-103495/
We found it entertaining if not useful.
similar discussion in the NE region forum from last week: https://www.rx8club.com/ne-rx-8-forum-29/rx8-supercharger-%3D-%24350-00-a-103495/
We found it entertaining if not useful.
11-27-2006 | 08:59 PM
#12
The King Of Kings.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
turbodyne is a farse, never had any product, all vaporware, while electric chargers seem to sound good, I believe there is only one person in the world that ever made one work, thomas knight... and his system is as expensive as any normal kit, and heavier, noisier, more prone to failure
http://www.boosthead.com/about.php
go ahead and read my friend, he offers normal and electric ones, these are no joke systems and if you take the plunge you will most likely get the power, but also a product that will fail under high loads and destroy your engine in the process, I have known some sad stories on this stuff
http://www.boosthead.com/about.php
go ahead and read my friend, he offers normal and electric ones, these are no joke systems and if you take the plunge you will most likely get the power, but also a product that will fail under high loads and destroy your engine in the process, I have known some sad stories on this stuff
Electric Supercharger
Maybe you've seen the tires melt on our ESC™-charged test vehicles at Moroso Motosports Park. Maybe you've seen our feature article in Turbo Magazine and the full-page ads in Power Pages, Turbo, and Sport Compact. Or maybe you've seen the buzz across hundreds of message boards and want to know why everyone is so excited about "another POS bilge pump fan that cannot possibly work."
Well, we have news for you. This is real technology. From a real company. With real test results to back our claims (see "Additional Files" to the right). This is not another eBay leaf blower...
Then what is it?
Our patented ESC™ 350CM is a high-performance electric supercharger powered by extra batteries instead of your engine's belt. It can add huge hp gains on stock engines up to 3.0L.
What's it made out of?
The core of our ESC™ 350c is a centrifugal type supercharger. This durable unit flows up to 6 psi** in less than a second and is rated up to 400 hp. Its impeller is turned by a custom-wound electric motor. Most components are CNC-machined, 60-16 T6 aircraft aluminum. Every unit is made-to-order by Thomas Knight, thoroughly tested and backed by our competitive 1-year warranty.
Electric motor? Then it must run off your alternator, right?
Wrong. For years, drawing current straight from an alternator was the misguided approach of engineers unable to think outside the box. It simply isn't possible for an alternator to produce enough current to power a real supercharger.
Then where does the power come from?
At the push of a button, an ultra-lightweight battery bank injects the drive system with bursts of pure energy. And you can use either regular car batteries, or MIL-SPEC type, specifically designed for hardcore use and fast recharge. Most importantly, they're totally independent from your vehicle, so you don't suffer the parasitic loss under boost that a turbo or supercharger robs from your engine. Because this is a universal system, we do not supply these batteries, but we can help you customize your setup towards a specific application. For the average user, we suggest two regular batteries; for competition racers, we recommend the awesome BATCAPs, or Odyssey high-CCA batteries (only 13 lbs each).
Why only short bursts?
Think of these batteries as your Nitrous tanks. Like Nitrous, the ESC's instant boost is currently limited in duration, but unlike Nitrous, that restriction will gradually disappear as battery technology improves. Eventually, high-volume capacitors will allow for almost perpetual usage. Until then, a typical battery bank will yield several runs before recharge. And unlike Nitrous, our system will not cost you thousands of dollars in long-term refilling expenses. Most Nitrous users go through at least 1 bottle/week, and at $30 to $45 per bottle, that's a hidden charge of $1,560 a year, every year, forever. Think about it! With our system, you will never deal with costly refills again.
No more refills?
Well, not quite. There is no such thing as free energy. Even our system needs to be recharged, but in this respect, the universal, open-ended design allows for hundreds of ways to do so. It could be as simple as hooking up to a regular battery charger in your garage twice a week, or as futuristic as solar panels. You can upgrade to a high-output alternator like those that power competition audio systems in the future. With a 200-amp alternator, you'll fully recharge quickly while the ESC™ is off. So while you're waiting in the staging lanes or cruising along the strip, you can relax and hurl insults at the Nitrous guys while your system preps for another power burst of awesome boost.
There's more than enough power to remind those high school kids with the neon muffler bearings who their daddy is.
What about the extra weight?
It's a non-issue. Our new centrifugal ESCs weighs 17 lbs, (battery weight varies). In comparison, a full turbo kit can easily weigh 100lb, while most belt-driven superchargers weigh 90 lbs. As you can see, the "extra weight" is not a real argument Plus, no parasitic loss means greater horsepower, so our ESC™ more than makes up for the difference.
Maybe you've seen the tires melt on our ESC™-charged test vehicles at Moroso Motosports Park. Maybe you've seen our feature article in Turbo Magazine and the full-page ads in Power Pages, Turbo, and Sport Compact. Or maybe you've seen the buzz across hundreds of message boards and want to know why everyone is so excited about "another POS bilge pump fan that cannot possibly work."
Well, we have news for you. This is real technology. From a real company. With real test results to back our claims (see "Additional Files" to the right). This is not another eBay leaf blower...
Then what is it?
Our patented ESC™ 350CM is a high-performance electric supercharger powered by extra batteries instead of your engine's belt. It can add huge hp gains on stock engines up to 3.0L.
What's it made out of?
The core of our ESC™ 350c is a centrifugal type supercharger. This durable unit flows up to 6 psi** in less than a second and is rated up to 400 hp. Its impeller is turned by a custom-wound electric motor. Most components are CNC-machined, 60-16 T6 aircraft aluminum. Every unit is made-to-order by Thomas Knight, thoroughly tested and backed by our competitive 1-year warranty.
Electric motor? Then it must run off your alternator, right?
Wrong. For years, drawing current straight from an alternator was the misguided approach of engineers unable to think outside the box. It simply isn't possible for an alternator to produce enough current to power a real supercharger.
Then where does the power come from?
At the push of a button, an ultra-lightweight battery bank injects the drive system with bursts of pure energy. And you can use either regular car batteries, or MIL-SPEC type, specifically designed for hardcore use and fast recharge. Most importantly, they're totally independent from your vehicle, so you don't suffer the parasitic loss under boost that a turbo or supercharger robs from your engine. Because this is a universal system, we do not supply these batteries, but we can help you customize your setup towards a specific application. For the average user, we suggest two regular batteries; for competition racers, we recommend the awesome BATCAPs, or Odyssey high-CCA batteries (only 13 lbs each).
Why only short bursts?
Think of these batteries as your Nitrous tanks. Like Nitrous, the ESC's instant boost is currently limited in duration, but unlike Nitrous, that restriction will gradually disappear as battery technology improves. Eventually, high-volume capacitors will allow for almost perpetual usage. Until then, a typical battery bank will yield several runs before recharge. And unlike Nitrous, our system will not cost you thousands of dollars in long-term refilling expenses. Most Nitrous users go through at least 1 bottle/week, and at $30 to $45 per bottle, that's a hidden charge of $1,560 a year, every year, forever. Think about it! With our system, you will never deal with costly refills again.
No more refills?
Well, not quite. There is no such thing as free energy. Even our system needs to be recharged, but in this respect, the universal, open-ended design allows for hundreds of ways to do so. It could be as simple as hooking up to a regular battery charger in your garage twice a week, or as futuristic as solar panels. You can upgrade to a high-output alternator like those that power competition audio systems in the future. With a 200-amp alternator, you'll fully recharge quickly while the ESC™ is off. So while you're waiting in the staging lanes or cruising along the strip, you can relax and hurl insults at the Nitrous guys while your system preps for another power burst of awesome boost.
There's more than enough power to remind those high school kids with the neon muffler bearings who their daddy is.
What about the extra weight?
It's a non-issue. Our new centrifugal ESCs weighs 17 lbs, (battery weight varies). In comparison, a full turbo kit can easily weigh 100lb, while most belt-driven superchargers weigh 90 lbs. As you can see, the "extra weight" is not a real argument Plus, no parasitic loss means greater horsepower, so our ESC™ more than makes up for the difference.
Last edited by Fearsomefatman; 11-27-2006 at 09:02 PM.
11-27-2006 | 09:08 PM
#13
⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,625
Likes: 5
From: USA
Our new centrifugal ESCs weighs 17 lbs, (battery weight varies). In comparison, a full turbo kit can easily weigh 100lb, while most belt-driven superchargers weigh 90 lbs.
11-27-2006 | 10:46 PM
#14
battery weight may vary, but they didn't provide any weight for them in their claim
and you remove parts/weight to install a turbo kit, you have to look at the net change not just the weight of the kit i.e. the OE exhaust manifold weighs 17 lb and is replaced by the new turbo manifold, etc.
and you remove parts/weight to install a turbo kit, you have to look at the net change not just the weight of the kit i.e. the OE exhaust manifold weighs 17 lb and is replaced by the new turbo manifold, etc.
11-29-2006 | 02:08 PM
#16
Blonde Bastard
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 733
Likes: 1
From: Ellicott City, Maryland
Ok let me make sure I got this right… This company is marketing an electric super charger that is only 17lbs that can pump up to 6LB of pressure in less than a second and is rated to 400HP?! Pardon my ignorance but how the hell can a turbine smaller than a leaf blower pump so much air? I would seriously love to see the science behind this… let alone running off of a battery. I am actually wondering if this thing can even provide the air needed by an 8 at WOT.
Oh wait I found my answer… As it was clearly pointed out by silverwolf in the other thread we had going about things like this (https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=103495) the 8 STOCK runs at 400CFM but this thing clearly states its MAX is 455CFM *see Quote*
“Want to know more?
Please read our extensive FAQs before you contact us. Most of your questions are answered there. We offer payment plans with $1K deposit, military/LE discounts, an R&D program, rebates, and partial sponsorships.
• Includes blower ONLY
• Fits most engines up to 3.0L
• Drive System consists of one 8HP electric motor
• Power Source is an independent, non-parasitic battery bank
• Max Recommended PSI 5 PSI on a stock engine
• Maximum CFM 455 CFM
• Maximum HP 400 hp
• Maximum Duration 15 seconds
• Installation Time 8+ hours. Requires basic mechanical, advanced electrical knowledge”
So if my math is correct, at full burst (for that 15 seconds) its only giving 55CFM of air to the 8?? How the hell can this thing be rated to 400HP? What are they dyno’ing with (if anything at all? A go kart? A Honda? What? Besides doesn’t 6LB of pressure produce more air than 55CFM that at WOT?
**Yells** ROTARY GOD!!!! Get your *** in here!!
Now that I think about it, doesn’t a can of air produce more pressure than that?
Me thinks this is ANOTHER overpriced turbonator… But hey you get a FABULOUS 1 year warranty on it
Hmm I wonder what the return policy is?
Oh wait I found my answer… As it was clearly pointed out by silverwolf in the other thread we had going about things like this (https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=103495) the 8 STOCK runs at 400CFM but this thing clearly states its MAX is 455CFM *see Quote*
“Want to know more?
Please read our extensive FAQs before you contact us. Most of your questions are answered there. We offer payment plans with $1K deposit, military/LE discounts, an R&D program, rebates, and partial sponsorships.
• Includes blower ONLY
• Fits most engines up to 3.0L
• Drive System consists of one 8HP electric motor
• Power Source is an independent, non-parasitic battery bank
• Max Recommended PSI 5 PSI on a stock engine
• Maximum CFM 455 CFM
• Maximum HP 400 hp
• Maximum Duration 15 seconds
• Installation Time 8+ hours. Requires basic mechanical, advanced electrical knowledge”
So if my math is correct, at full burst (for that 15 seconds) its only giving 55CFM of air to the 8?? How the hell can this thing be rated to 400HP? What are they dyno’ing with (if anything at all? A go kart? A Honda? What? Besides doesn’t 6LB of pressure produce more air than 55CFM that at WOT?
**Yells** ROTARY GOD!!!! Get your *** in here!!
Now that I think about it, doesn’t a can of air produce more pressure than that?
Me thinks this is ANOTHER overpriced turbonator… But hey you get a FABULOUS 1 year warranty on it
Hmm I wonder what the return policy is?
11-29-2006 | 02:28 PM
#17
Blonde Bastard
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 733
Likes: 1
From: Ellicott City, Maryland
You know what i think i got a better idea...
Why dont we all go to sears and pick up one of these (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...seBVCookie=Yes) and pop it in the trunk and rig it to the engine. This right here is a gaurenteed 135LB of pressure for $36.99!
Why dont we all go to sears and pick up one of these (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...seBVCookie=Yes) and pop it in the trunk and rig it to the engine. This right here is a gaurenteed 135LB of pressure for $36.99!
11-29-2006 | 02:30 PM
#18
Registered
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
You could also do a search and get your answers immediately:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...c+supercharger
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...c+supercharger
11-29-2006 | 08:16 PM
#19
Thread Starter
RX8 newbie!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,362
Likes: 0
Guys i just found out a product which is exactly the same as the theory i made earlier. gain small amount of power with just enough HP.
check out:
www.electricsupercharger.com
check out:
www.electricsupercharger.com
11-29-2006 | 08:50 PM
#21
The King Of Kings.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by StealthTL
Yup, that's your basic bilge blower fan, told you it would be.....
Life is too short for this. "TAKE ME NOW, LORD!!"
S
Life is too short for this. "TAKE ME NOW, LORD!!"
S
anyways, just thought you guys should know of thomas knight
the eram makes 800CFM of air now?? can they prove that to me? 
how in the hell? LOL....
11-29-2006 | 10:15 PM
#22
Registered
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
Thomas or Geoff Knight himself actually posted in this thread:
You could also do a search and get your answers immediately:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ic+supercharger
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ic+supercharger
11-30-2006 | 02:03 AM
#24
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 792
Likes: 2
Interestingly, the E-RAM guys have posted on their site WHY their E-RAM works versus why others don't work and have answered some of the negative comments.
http://www.electricsupercharger.com/...#eboostbasics1
Note- At the above link, they even compare the E-RAM to a leaf blower to show the difference.
The SUPER E-RAM is suppose to put out something like 27 HP for $596 dollars. Funny thing though, dual inline bilge fans should be more like $50 dollars (Hahahahah...). When you compare the E-RAM to CAI, RAM Air intakes, and various exhaust systems its a decent "bang for the buck" (of course that is if it works).
An interesting argument about this is comparing this to a CAI and RAM AIR INTAKE systems like from Racing Beat.
Many, even at this site and some experts, have proved that various RAM AIR Intakes work. Why? As the car goes faster, it takes in more air. The ECU compensates by adding more fuel to the air and thus more HP.
Why wouldn't an electrical system blowing air into the intake, not have the same effect???
If those guys are lying, than how are they wrong???
1. Is their E-RAM not getting enough "power" from the battery?
2. Is the E-RAM not putting out enough AIR to really make as much HP as it claims?
3. Does it have to do with the air not being compressed enough? Oddly, nobody makes this argument with RAM Air Intake systems.
I'm curious about what some of the supercharger guys like RP (would be interesting if he talked about their AXIAL FLOW design), HYMEE, Pettit people, RotaryGod, and other advanced members here at RX8Club have to say about this.
Also, it would be beyond cool to have some of the E-RAM people show up and debate this too.
E-RAM Contact info:
e-RACING MOTORSPORTS PHONE #:
(831) 685-3278
e-RACING MOTORSPORTS E-MAIL:
info@electricsupercharger.com
Link- http://www.electricsupercharger.com/contactus.shtml
http://www.electricsupercharger.com/...#eboostbasics1
Note- At the above link, they even compare the E-RAM to a leaf blower to show the difference.
The SUPER E-RAM is suppose to put out something like 27 HP for $596 dollars. Funny thing though, dual inline bilge fans should be more like $50 dollars (Hahahahah...). When you compare the E-RAM to CAI, RAM Air intakes, and various exhaust systems its a decent "bang for the buck" (of course that is if it works).
An interesting argument about this is comparing this to a CAI and RAM AIR INTAKE systems like from Racing Beat.
Many, even at this site and some experts, have proved that various RAM AIR Intakes work. Why? As the car goes faster, it takes in more air. The ECU compensates by adding more fuel to the air and thus more HP.
Why wouldn't an electrical system blowing air into the intake, not have the same effect???
If those guys are lying, than how are they wrong???
1. Is their E-RAM not getting enough "power" from the battery?
2. Is the E-RAM not putting out enough AIR to really make as much HP as it claims?
3. Does it have to do with the air not being compressed enough? Oddly, nobody makes this argument with RAM Air Intake systems.
I'm curious about what some of the supercharger guys like RP (would be interesting if he talked about their AXIAL FLOW design), HYMEE, Pettit people, RotaryGod, and other advanced members here at RX8Club have to say about this.
Also, it would be beyond cool to have some of the E-RAM people show up and debate this too.
E-RAM Contact info:
e-RACING MOTORSPORTS PHONE #:
(831) 685-3278
e-RACING MOTORSPORTS E-MAIL:
info@electricsupercharger.com
Link- http://www.electricsupercharger.com/contactus.shtml
Last edited by sosonic; 11-30-2006 at 02:24 AM.
11-30-2006 | 01:55 PM
#25
Registered
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
No offense, but are you blind? This is the 3rd time I'm posting this thread:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...c+supercharger
All the answers and calculations can be found in this thread.
Are you expecting people in this forum to re-write old answers or what?
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...c+supercharger
All the answers and calculations can be found in this thread.
Are you expecting people in this forum to re-write old answers or what?