TeKP

PoMan Ferrari is getting his car dyno tested today after installing the RE intake. It will be interesting to see his results.

See this thread: https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...491#post206491

TeKP

I wonder why they mentioned nothing about the results of the ECU/PCM mod they have in development.

Maybe each one of these mods when used by themselves produce insignificant power gains but complement each other when supplemented with other mods. It has been reported that the borla exhausts gains have been increased when used in combination with CZ's stage 1 mod.

pp13bnos

Rotary Power NW is going to do a dyno day, and I was just hoping that somone would hook me up with a free intake. :p

Anouther mod I was wondering about was the Pineapple Racing sleeves (for the 6spds). Curious as to how much hp those would add. CJ

tommy12g

I just got that same Email from Racing Beat, that sucks that its only getting those gains, but they are very reputable in the rotary industry so I trust their results

They are also being honest in that they are not claiming 15hp like others out there are

SDFLY

...all this "honesty" is bringing me down...so basically I'm paying $600 for some sound? Bummer

TrAsHeR

I tried getting to the VFAD but it seems as you have to take the front off for that. I didn't have the time to do so, has anyone else messed with this yet?

JimW

Damn, those numbers seem low. I wonder if racing beat is running into the dreaded limp mode as all the others have done when dynoing? I can't say for certain what part can produce x H.P. untill someone cracks The RX8s computer, it's already been proven that the computer retards the cars H.P. via timing or wheel breaking by the ABS when trying to dyno the car. the best results would be a G-tech or some other onboard device to measure power, Canzoomer has already run a 13.7 1/4 mile using just his ecu mod and a Borla, with the use of a G-tech!

tommy12g

I dont know........it sucks but they seem to be pretty honest

Gyro

yeah........you have to respect the honesty.

Its very reputable for them to do that, given thay are in the business to sell products.

All this tells me is that we have a very nicely engineered car out of the box. Our intakes were well engineered for performance, and thats the main reason an aftermarket design has not yielded significant HP gains. The stock RX8 exhaust is not terrible either. Its only downfall is Mazda attempting to appeal to the masses (and db restrictions) with a quite design. I for one like the sound just as it is. I would like slightly bigger tips however, and refuse to pay $600+ for bigger tips

Obviously a PCM mod will get you the best bang........and given that, a less restictive exhaust (starting from headers...not catback) would utilize it better.

In my opinion an aftermarket intake changes mostly sound characteristics on the RX8. When I use the world "intake" I refer to the designs we currently have seen. These are not new intakes at all, just new airbox designs. From the throttle body to the engine is left stock. There is a long way for that air to go after it leaves your aftermarket "intake". It enters the real intake manifold from the throttle body and into the engine.

The stock airbox is very dense. just compare the sound of tapping on it to the PCM cover. Its a very quiet design, but not really restrictive. Some may like the sound that a less dense airbox gives them, and for that reason it may be worth the money for that reason. Just dont expect much in the way of HP gains.

Racing Beat has shown this in their numbers. Now if RB quoted 30 HP gains from a PCM mod.....you would believe them because they have shown to be honest and accurate.

pp13bnos

While I've allways loved RB, I've noticed that they are honest, but allways a little on the conservitive (I suck at spelling.) side. Take for instance the s4 and s5 n/a engines (86-91 13B.) They claimed that modifications to that motor did'nt yeild as much power as cars in the past, and they the engines where'nt worth modifing. With a exhaust, intake, s-afc, and some other little mods, my old 90 Rx-7 made 167rwhp on a mustang, or around 180ish rwhp on a dynojet. thats not bad considering they usually put down 115-125rwhp stock.

If you realy want do some searching on the rx7club forum, you'll also notice that RB has told people that a racepipe made right around the same hp as a header. One guy did some dyno'ing and found that there was like a 7-12(?)rwhp difference. Now thats quite a bit of difference if you ask me.

Rx-7.com, makes a mid pipe for the 8. Now they are very well known, and don't talk alot of BS, but here is their results.




CJ

compaddict

The truth is a good thing and I really respect Racing Beat for telling it.

Now will people that got ripped off buying 300.00 intakes send them back for a refund? I have a feeling that they wont...

Vince

bureau13

Funny how you're so quick to believe RB because they say what you want to hear. I haven't seen any dyno charts (oops...gotta have raw data now, almost forgot) from them either. The cynical side of me says RB has something to gain from talking down the currently available set of mods since they seem to have a lot of products in development but nothing really available as yet.

Don't get me wrong....I think RB makes some nice stuff, and in general I don't view them as one of those companies with shoddy business practices...but I don't really view Borla, or K&N, or Rotary Extreme etc as disreputable companies either, and I'm not willing to declare them all liars just because RB insinuates it.

Also, keep in mind the power-adding performance mods RB is most known for in the aftermarket FD world: A relatively quiet exhaust and a modification to the stock intake duct that allows you to retain the stock box (and its inherent quietness) while giving you some of the benefits of a less restrictive intake. IMO these are not *****-to-the-wall, no-compromise mods, and so I wouldn't expect them to make as much power as those which are willing to trade some noise, etc. If their design considerations for the RX-8 are in a similar vein, then it wouldn't surprise me at all to see their parts put out a bit less power than some of those from other manufacturers.

jds

compaddict

All I really want is the truth and everything starts and stops with that.

Vince

RX-8 friend

As I posted before - get the titanium cat back - for the weight savings and cool factor - only.

Doctorr

What RB say with regards to the intake only makes sense - if you look at the whole tract, from injectors back to snorkel, the smallest orifice is that oval hole thru the front bulkhead to the 'cold'side of the rad.
If you want more flow, you would start there. Since the hole is way smaller than the MAF itself, it is an obvious choke point.
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doc

JimW

I applaud any Co. for being truthfull, but I believe everything has to start with the correct ecu programs to take advantage of any aftermatket part and the RX8 has not been figured out yet, I think we should wait. I believe RBs numbers, it makes sense considering the restrictions by the computer, I just think thier numbers would be higher if they tested with and onboard diagnostic tool!

kingcar

We haven't seen any dyno charts from canzoomer yet (correct me if I'm wrong) and everyone seems to believe him. Now I dont doubt the claims that he is making but by your logic he should be doubted because he too is trying to sell a product

MP3Guy

I don't think RB was pointing the finger at those firms specifically. However, K&N's ads on Speed Channel, comparing how much horsepower you get from one of their filters compared to say, a turbo, don't do much to dispel the image of overhype. I think the OEM guys have learned from the aftermarket, and their intakes and exhausts aren't nearly as restrictive as they used to be, narrowing the spread between them and the aftermarket considerably.

Does anyone really believe replacing a stock exhaust gives you an additional 20 HP. Or dropping in a new filter gives you 5?? You guys are more knowledgable than that!

pp13bnos

All we can do is wait and see. But I too, will be doing a dyno session without a intake, then after a intake. Just need to finish my other money pit first. (See my sig.) CJ

Thoai

It's cool that hawaii doesn't have the emission law but when I going to the university of hawaii I had to deal with hawaii's f--cked up safety check and recon laws. The safety check wasn't too bad for me cause my friend alway's hooked me up, cause he worked at Texaco but as for recon that's the stupidest law I ever heard of. In a 4 year period I racked up over $2000 in mod and recon tickets mainly because I lived in Waikiki and Ala Moana area. It got to the point where I just raised my car and took the tint and rims off. So in opinion if you start modding your rx-8 do something mild first to get that damm recon sticker it will save you alot of hassle and doe. Peace!

Omicron

Ok, I give up, what are "Pineapple Racing sleeves? Something you pin to your nomex racing suit to avoid carpel tunnel syndrome? :D (J/K)

I agree with Bureau. While there is NO doubt in my mind that Racing Beat is as reputable as they come, it's also important to keep in mind that they are VERY tied in with Mazda corporate, and have been for years. As they're almost a part of Mazda, they have a vested interest in making the factory-stock RX-8 look good as is. They also have a vested interest casting doubt on how effective the current crop of aftermarket parts are, since they don't yet have any competing products.

I'm am NOT saying they are being dishonest, but I DO think they are being excessively conservative in the HP improvements mods can provide. Then in a few months, they will come out with a series of mods that magically get more horsepower than they have forcasted is possible, and the market will rush to buy their products.

I am just as skeptical of excessively LOW horsepower gain claims as I am of excessively HIGH horsepower gain claims, and I'm really surprised at the number of people who seem to think that if Racing Beat say it is so, then it must be true.

inittab

On the old school rotaries these kinds of gains were actually that easy to attain.

bureau13

Interesting conclusion to draw from my post! I'm not the one making all these demands, although I'll reserve a healthy skepticism for any unproven claims. You missed my point though...there has been a lot of talk from a few people questioning power claims, even when dyno charts were posted....why then is everyone so eager to believe RB's claims of a lack of power improvements when they've provided nothing in the way of proof? Its a bit of a double standard, based IMO on whether or not the statements match one's preconceptions.

jds

se3pmaniac

I don't think anyone has noticed that Racing Beat uses Engine Dyno, not a wheel dyno such as DynoJet or Mustang dyno. Engine dyno should give out the true engine HP or flywheel HP without drivetrain loss.

The first thing I want to ask them is that if they get 238 HP from a complete stock setup as advertised by Mazda. I think we should start from there before we analyze anything else.

Another important question is that will the ECU run in normal mode with engine revving but none of the wheels turning? So pretty much it's like you are running the car with the speed sensor and abs sensor disconnected. Will the ECU behave the same under those conditions?

RCCAZ 1

se3pmaniac,

Best post to this thread so far. You're exactly right that RB uses an engine Dyno for all their testing. Yes, Big Jim (RB founder and owner) has a reputation for being conservative, but I've found him to be as honest as the day is long over the years. He will not BS you, but he will quote VERY conservative numbers! That being said, you might see a few more ponies tacked on to each of their claims, but are they off by 50 percent... not likely!

They're a great company with probably the most extensive knowledge and experience in the U.S. with rotary engines. Also, an earlier poster was correct in mentioning that they have a very close working relationship with Mazda. Does that cause me to doubt their integrity? NO WAY! It's just not in Jim's straight-shooting style or RBs best interest to skew numbers for the sake of any relationship that they might have with Mazda.

Let's give automotive designers a little credit over the past 20 years huh? With CATIA and flow modeling and thermal imaging programs that are currently industry standard why shouldn't a company like Mazda be able to put out a product that's pretty darn good right out of the box. Sure in the past you were able to get pretty large increases with items like intakes, catbacks, and DPs but that was 70s, 80s and early 90s design technology. A lot has changed since the introduction of the Gen 3. Even 350Z aftermarket tuners had a difficult time improving on the stock intake and exhaust system.