dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

If all you want is the brake stopper, they are easy to add. I welded one on my stock bar and it literally took me about 20 minutes to do.

I'd be really interested to know how much the stock "strut" bar bends and/or shortens in a corner. The MS bar doesn't mount in a different way, so the only change it can have is being stiffer. Hard to believe that the stock bar is really moving that much that the MS bar could make it better.

The front MS bar is CF versus steel though, so it does offer some up-high weight savings.

RoXanneBlack8

"everyone in this room is now dumber for hearing that..."



"I just see so often that these cars with $3000 worth of swaybars, shocks, springs, and wider wheel/tire packages end up with no improvement, and sometimes actually DEGRADE the capabilities of the stock vehicle. It may FEEL "better", as in less body roll and a more "sporty" ride, and it may LOOK better, but it may not actually improve the capabilities of the car. Sometimes this happens with "big brake kits", too."



whoever said this, give yourself a punch in the face.

when some people lower thier cars, they do it for looks, so they slam it to the ground, that degrades the handling and ride. ok. but when u lower it the proper height, it changes the car dramatically. hearing u say all that crap proves youve never even driven in a car before and after major suspension overhauls.

i drive stock rx8s on a daily basis and its a JOKE as to how bad the cornering ability is compared to a true coilover setup. manufacturers concentrate on cost, ride quality, and handling: all in that order. its a big compromise of all three that makes it onto the car. the stock front strut bar is a 1 lb piece of hollow steel that does little compared to aftermakret strut bars. cost is a factor there. the MS strut bar is a wrapped in CF, its not pure CF. it is light, sure, but its much stiffer than oem, anything is actually.

the sway bars are hollow, weak, and small. cost compromise again. aftermarket ones improve handling as well. go look up "oversteer" "understeer" and "neutral" and let me kno if they mention suspension/tire settings anywhere.



give me a call next time you see drift cars, rally cars, and time attack cars use stock suspension/tires to compete.


so much as u saying aftermakret tires dont help either.....my god man. dont get me started.
u think the mass produced 225s are the best they sell? WOW

two words....

R
Compound


look that up too.






so much as the big brake comment, those upgrades are specifically for competition use where brake fade is a major factor. on the street you see no diff bc big brake kits are designed largely to reduce brake fade, and since u think the stock tires are the best on the planet, u prolly think the stock brakes dont fade either, u also prolly dont even kno what fade is...please ban youself from communicating with people for the next 2-5 days while i go and try to pretend i didnt read your mind numbingly stupid babble.

TheDosDog

Facts a little off here. The stock bar does little to nothing since the mount allows the mount plate to flex instead of transferring the load to the bar. The MS bar has a solid mount attached to the tower mount and therefore is able to transmit loads as designed. As far as light weight, the MS CF trimmed aluminum bar did not feel any lighter to me.

Paul_in_DC

True. I remember a few people using after-market end links on the stock bars and getting noticeable improvement.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

Umm, we're talking about strut tower bars here, not sway bars. Endlinks are for sway bars. The stock endlinks are fine until they break (which they rarley do).

The plate he is discussing is on the strut tower bar in the front.

I'm really doubting that Mazda put all that stuff on the front of the car and it does nothing because of the plate design. Almost everything on the RX-8 is designed to make it handle better or keep the weight down.

If what you are saying about the mount plate is true, are you saying someone could design a stiffer plate and the stock bar would be just as good as the MS bar?

DrDiaboloco

Wow. I barely bothered reading past this point. Why is it that you're so insulted by THE TRUTH, that you can spend thousands on modifying your car and not get any improvement, or an improvement so marginal that five thousand dollars is esentially flushed down the loo? Test after test, done by someone OTHER than the purveyor of expensive bits to bolt to your car, find finds that marginal improvements or poor dollar/performance paybacks are common, especially in suspension and wheel/tire upgrades. Why you debate this is beyond comprehension... Maybe the Tein logo above your name indicates you have a horse in this race and you don't like hearing the truth? You also make retarded inferences that you plucked out of absolutely nowhere (like your reading comprehension-challenged remark about how I'm in love with the stock tires over all else, or that I don't recognize that big brake kits would be beneficial in competition but are mostly "bling" for street use... DUHHH).

Your response to my post was way, WAY over the top... Sounds like you have personal problems that need immediate help from a professional. So instead of referring to my reasoned statements as "stupid" and isulting me at every turn, why don't you aim your vitriol at a post that DESERVES such a comically stupid rant?

TheDosDog

If you pull it off and look at it, the mount is designed to flex/tear away. It's probably done to conform with impact standards and is likely "Safer" in a collision than the MS bar. Since we are not legally forced to consider the consequences of "Stiffening" our rides, we can easily acheive some enhanced handling performance. However, there is usually an offset in crash stafety. Mazda did an excellent job balancing performance and safety in the 8 and when we choose to shift that balance towards performance we realize the benefit and accept consequences. Sure the master cylinder brace eliminates some firewall flex but in a hard frontal collision, impact forces will be transmitted to your foot that is likely hard on the brake. I looked at the design of the MS bar carefully and decided the benefit far outweighed any potentially risk (for me). As we get older I guess we think a little more about these things.

Paul_in_DC

Ah, strut tower bars - my bad. But as to sway bars, a number of people have found out abruptly that the stock endlinks sometimes don't work for upgraded bars. Personally, I'd rather change them beforehand rather than have them shear off at 120 mph.

One person's example: https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...86&postcount=1

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

Did you read the rest of that thread? People agree that the endlinks basically work fine, and that guy had a weird experience. He's not even sure what broke. Most people that break endlinks installed the rear bar upside down

RoXanneBlack8

dr diab....whatev

this argument will go no where so ill end it here.

sorry i said anything

DrDiaboloco

You should be. It wasn't even an argument until you flew off the handle for no apparent reason.

Paul_in_DC

Yup, read it. And a half-dozen other threads that reported the same problem with broken endlinks.

Xantium

There is an important difference between the mazdaspeed cross-tower strut brace and the oe strut brace. If you look closely, the two ends that go on the strut tops on the mazdaspeed bar are connected to the cf piece with "hinges". This allows the two struts to sort of rotate so the front geometry moves in a sort of trapazoid shape keeping everything in alignment. The OE bar looks like it would distort the geometry becuase it doesn't allow the tophats to flex individually? Honestly I have no idea what I'm talking about but I haven't really seen this mentioned before.

Mikelikes2drive

it made a difference... and the MS strut bar is much stiffer and much thicker! u can tell the difference...
and just because some bozo on the forum says since our car already comes with a strut bar, a MS strut bar wont make a difference? well our car comes with an exhaust.... comes with springs... replacing those make a difference right?

the master cylinder is worth it i believe... and there was a difference...

MedicineMan

I might as well chime in, also. There did seem to be a difference when first installed but after having driven with it on for the last year or so, I have become used to it. As a side note, I did "Dremel" the cover so it would fit with the MS Strut.

DrDiaboloco

Just couldn't resist the urge to start calling names, could ya?

Let me guess... You put on a different exhaust and now your car is noticeably faster, right? Just like the HUGE difference that a CF tie bar made. Please, PLEASE tell me you don't think you have improved performance with an aftermarket exhaust. Even if you replaced everything from the engine back, and a different intake on the front end, you haven't done anything that you'd likely measure without a dynamometer (or a dB meter).

Look... I'm not saying that the MS tie bar would make NO difference, just that it won't make a difference that is noticeable on the street. For competition it makes sense if it's lighter and stiffer, to be sure. I'd bet my pink slip that those who say it makes such a noticeable difference only noticed because of the $200+ dollar hole in their bank account, not because it did anything dramatic. The difference between the stock bar and NO bar would be vastly more apparent (I once put a tie bar on a car that didn't have one stock, and when it had to be taken off to stay in the Stock class while autocrossing, the difference was obvious).

Making the comparison of the stock/aftermarket springs, btw, is utterly ridiculous. Anyone would notice THAT difference. If you're happy with all these perceived performance gains with your various modifications, great... But don't insult my intelligence and try to make me believe that you're transforming your car with every added part. Say you did it for the bling factor, say you did it for bragging rights, say you did it just so you can SAY you did it, but don't tell me this car needed "help" and you did so with a fatter strut tie bar. I've done enough mods on enough cars in my time to have already figured out what you may have not... Not every part makes as big a difference as you think it does, and not every dollar spent in aftermarket parts is a dollar wisely spent. I think there are better ways to spend money on this car than a fatter tie bar.

RoXanneBlack8

"I think there are better ways to spend money on this car than a fatter tie bar."


yeah like coilovers!!!!!!

Vertigo-1

iTrader: (3)

Unless you're driving your car through corners quite hard, you're not likely to notice the MS strut bar coming into play. I love doing almost instant 90 degree snap turns through 90 degree corners, and with the MS strut bar the car feels like it's leaning a little less into the corner during the turn. You can't miss the stiffer feel it gives the brake pedal though, and that makes it worth it to me.

Jaguar_MBA

Hells no.....you already have a box around the engine. Buy yourself a high flow cat or some swaybars instead

toxin440

Already have a high flow cat (RP style beeooch!!!)


Swaybars -- maybe a bit down the road, i need to let the credit card cool down after this $1,100 shopping spree.

Jaguar_MBA

SO how do you like that RP SUpercat? I really need to get one of those.

toxin440

love it -- gives the car a slightly deeper note - although when the engine is cold it has a raspy sound but after 1 minute of driving you are good to go. Supposedly adds ~6-8HP too... and its a helluva lot lighter then the stock unit.

Highly reccommended.

DrDiaboloco

No doubt. At least you'd notice the difference.

I think Mazda's done a fine job with the ride/handling compromise, and as one of the best-handling cars you can buy (both objectively and subjectively) for "average guy" money, I'm quite pleased with it. I spent a lot of money on lesser cars to get what this thing's got right off the showroom floor... And I personally don't see the point in messing with it, at least for my own purposes. If I WERE to mess with it, springs & shocks would be the first thing I'd do.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

WTF does this even mean?